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Old Mar 28, 2008, 02:20 AM
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Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junsi
Here we don’t want to talk any Commercial Confidential Information with you ,but we can ensure you that we have the right to design, modify, and produce the original 1010B and 106B.
Thanks for your comments.
Are you saying that you design the chargers in your company and manufacture then in your own factory ?
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgfly
What accessories come with the charger for $180 ? Input leads, output leads, balance port adapters, temperature probe, PC interface and software etc ?
We attach the following 3 accessories for $180:
1.One pair of output alligator clip wire
2.One pair of input alligator clip(30A)
3.One pair of temperature sensor wire(0~99℃(210℉))
But the following 2 accessories are optional which are not including in $ 180
1.T-shaped XLRM output wire
2.Balance expansion board
The current version 1010B doesn’t support PC interface, we will continue to produce new version which support PC interface.
Your earliest reply will be highly appreciated.
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgfly
Are you saying that you design the chargers in your company and manufacture then in your own factory ?
We have send PM to you.please check it.
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 04:30 AM
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Joined May 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junsi
We attach the following 3 accessories for $180:
1.One pair of output alligator clip wire
2.One pair of input alligator clip(30A)
3.One pair of temperature sensor wire(0~99℃(210℉))
But the following 2 accessories are optional which are not including in $ 180
1.T-shaped XLRM output wire
2.Balance expansion board
The current version 1010B doesn’t support PC interface, we will continue to produce new version which support PC interface.
Your earliest reply will be highly appreciated.
Thank you for this information. That balance adapter looks like it is for JST-XH with 4x2s, 3x3s, 2x4s, 2x5s and 1x6s. That is a good concept but my suggestion is that the rows of connectors are too close together and it becomes impossible to get one's fingers in to pull out the plugs and you end up pulling on the wires, which is bad. Perhaps you could make it a little larger and space the rows further apart? Do you have or plan to have adapters for other balance connectors such as TP/FP or Hyperion/Polyquest ?
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 05:21 AM
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I had a quick look at the manual.
During normal charge, will it still use the cell voltage information for safety cutoff if the pack is connected to the balancing port? (I'm a fan of not always balance during charging ).
During balancing, what is the max bleeding current?
I like the monitoring option. Will be useful, especially when you get the PC interface implemented.

Fred
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Charger 1010B can charger maximum 10 series LIPO at a time,1C limit is just for LIPO battery, according to LIPO battery’s manufacturer standard, usually LIPO’s current are limited within 1C.
I think this feature is not the wisest one. Actually, there are Lipos which can be charged with up to 2C. The technology is rapidly developing.
Might I suggest, to add one thing in the setup menue?
Just let the user decide the maximum C rate for charging LiPos in this menue. The default value can still be 1C.
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 02:00 PM
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Grand Prairie, Texas, USA
Joined Mar 2000
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As stated, this is a maximum of 200W charger. However one of your photos in the manual show the charger to be set up to charge a 10S pack of LiFe batteries (33V) at 10A. Since the ending voltage for the 10S pack will be 36V (I would prefer 37V), does the charger cut back the amps to around 5.56A toward the end? (200W/36V)
If so, will it maintain a 200W output throughout the charge?
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 04:49 PM
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Any plans for a "1012" or "1014" - that is 12 to 14s lipo capable, and (more importantly) 300W range?

The 1010B looks very promising. Neat size!

USB link seems to be happening - good!

But how about the capability to update the internal charger software from the PC ("flashing" it)? This would cater for just about any extension you could think of - including the very good suggestion by julez

T
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 05:46 PM
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Thanks!

I got a couple of other suggestions. I just mailed them to the thread starters, but I think i can as well post them here, too, to get your opinions.
So here they are:

These are my suggestions for improvement:
- From the images provided by you, it appears that the fan is sucking the air out of the casing, and not pushing it in.
I suggest to make it the other way round: A fan should always push the air into the case. As the cooling slots in the case are nearer to the ground than the fan opening, it is likely that dust from the ground will be sucked into the charger through the slots. Also, because the fan creates less air pressure in the charger case, the dust will likely settle in the charger. When you install the fan in a way, that it pushes air into the case, you avoid both problems, and the charger will be cleaner inside on the long run.

- Charging current limit (1C/4C) for Lixx cells:
Actually, there are Lipos which can be charged with up to 2C. LiFePo4 cells can be charged at 10C without problems. The technology is rapidly developing.
Might I suggest, to add one thing in the setup menue?
Just let the user decide the maximum C rate for charging LiPos in this menue. The default value can still be 1C.

- Drop the motor breaking in feature. Nobody uses brushed engines any more. Honestly.
At least, put this option somewhere away in the setup menu, where it does not annoy the user.

- Many people use different Lixx battery chemistries. I think that it is not good having to select the Lixx chemistry in the setup menu every time. It should be accessible directly like the Lithium, NiCd or NiMH battery type.
I think this kind of program would be better:

Program select
LiFP battery
|
Program select
LiIon battery
|
Program select
LiPoly battery
|
Program select
NiMH battery
|
etc...

This way, operating the charger becomes much more convenient.

- Tickle charge should not be a constant current. Very low, constant currents build up large crystals in Ni cells, which is bad.
It is much better, to pulse the charge. Let me explain:

When the tickle charge is 50mA constant, it is better to charge with 500mA for 10% of the time. This would be 6 seconds in every minute.
I also think, that the tickle charge is too high in your programming at the moment. The total current should only be 1-10% of the capacity, for example 1mA - 10mA for a 1000mAh battery.
Therefore, I suggest the following:
Make the tickle charge current depend on the capacity that was charged into the battery. This is better then having one tickle charge current value for all batterys the user is going to charge. Having to change the tickel charge current value in the setup menue for every different battery is very annoying.

Instead, in the setup menu, let the user decide the % value of the tickle charge in relation to the capacity, and the % value of the intervals in which the current is switched on.

For example, the user selects 10% tickle charge current and 10% time interval.

Now, he charges a battery, and it finishes with 1000mAh of capacity that was charged in.
With his settings, there would be 100mA tickle charge current, for 6 seconds in every minute.

This solution would be perfect for Ni- Cells.

Cheers,

Julez
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flarssen
I had a quick look at the manual.
During normal charge, will it still use the cell voltage information for safety cutoff if the pack is connected to the balancing port? (I'm a fan of not always balance during charging ).
During balancing, what is the max bleeding current?
I like the monitoring option. Will be useful, especially when you get the PC interface implemented.

Fred
when in normal charge, if you don't connect to the balancing port,take a 3S Lipo for example, you set the charge current at 5A ,when the chager enter into CV, the voltage reaches 4.2*3=12.6V,the charge progress will safely stop when the charge current reduce to 1/10C=500mA.
if you connect to the balancing port,the 1010B can monitor each cell's voltage,when the cell's voltage over 4.25V,the 1010B will teminate the charge progress with error.
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julez
I think this feature is not the wisest one. Actually, there are Lipos which can be charged with up to 2C. The technology is rapidly developing.
Might I suggest, to add one thing in the setup menue?
Just let the user decide the maximum C rate for charging LiPos in this menue. The default value can still be 1C.
the 1010B doesn't limit the current to 1C,users can choose the current limited within 10A,the stardard 1C for LIpo is just a sgguestion for user according to the battery's standard,of course,you can charge Lipo with up to 2C.thanks for your suggestion!
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp
As stated, this is a maximum of 200W charger. However one of your photos in the manual show the charger to be set up to charge a 10S pack of LiFe batteries (33V) at 10A. Since the ending voltage for the 10S pack will be 36V (I would prefer 37V), does the charger cut back the amps to around 5.56A toward the end? (200W/36V)
If so, will it maintain a 200W output throughout the charge?
Yes,you are right! The output power capacity will maintain 200W in the whilo process, the current will decreasing with the voltage increasing.A=200W/outputV
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 10:12 PM
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Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomanie
Any plans for a "1012" or "1014" - that is 12 to 14s lipo capable, and (more importantly) 300W range?

The 1010B looks very promising. Neat size!

USB link seems to be happening - good!

But how about the capability to update the internal charger software from the PC ("flashing" it)? This would cater for just about any extension you could think of - including the very good suggestion by julez

T
first, thanks for your suggestion.the 1010B and 106B are our newly produced products, we will update them according to the market demands in the long run!12 to 14s lipo capable is our next aim, we will try our best to produce new products to fullfill costomers needs.
we will consider adding USB link to the next generation of iCharger series!
it will take a time to develop the software PC procedure for us,but,it won't take long time to design 1010B USB connector as a hardware update. Currently, we haven't offer the sofeware update for customers,only for our manufaturer! when we add USB connector,we might offer the software update right for customers!
the 1010B and 106B ,whose quality as well as functions has been proved by a scrupulous test for 5 months!
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 11:05 PM
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Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julez
Thanks!

I got a couple of other suggestions. I just mailed them to the thread starters, but I think i can as well post them here, too, to get your opinions.
So here they are:

These are my suggestions for improvement:
- From the images provided by you, it appears that the fan is sucking the air out of the casing, and not pushing it in.
I suggest to make it the other way round: A fan should always push the air into the case. As the cooling slots in the case are nearer to the ground than the fan opening, it is likely that dust from the ground will be sucked into the charger through the slots. Also, because the fan creates less air pressure in the charger case, the dust will likely settle in the charger. When you install the fan in a way, that it pushes air into the case, you avoid both problems, and the charger will be cleaner inside on the long run.

- Charging current limit (1C/4C) for Lixx cells:
Actually, there are Lipos which can be charged with up to 2C. LiFePo4 cells can be charged at 10C without problems. The technology is rapidly developing.
Might I suggest, to add one thing in the setup menue?
Just let the user decide the maximum C rate for charging LiPos in this menue. The default value can still be 1C.

- Drop the motor breaking in feature. Nobody uses brushed engines any more. Honestly.
At least, put this option somewhere away in the setup menu, where it does not annoy the user.

- Many people use different Lixx battery chemistries. I think that it is not good having to select the Lixx chemistry in the setup menu every time. It should be accessible directly like the Lithium, NiCd or NiMH battery type.
I think this kind of program would be better:

Program select
LiFP battery
|
Program select
LiIon battery
|
Program select
LiPoly battery
|
Program select
NiMH battery
|
etc...

This way, operating the charger becomes much more convenient.

- Tickle charge should not be a constant current. Very low, constant currents build up large crystals in Ni cells, which is bad.
It is much better, to pulse the charge. Let me explain:

When the tickle charge is 50mA constant, it is better to charge with 500mA for 10% of the time. This would be 6 seconds in every minute.
I also think, that the tickle charge is too high in your programming at the moment. The total current should only be 1-10% of the capacity, for example 1mA - 10mA for a 1000mAh battery.
Therefore, I suggest the following:
Make the tickle charge current depend on the capacity that was charged into the battery. This is better then having one tickle charge current value for all batterys the user is going to charge. Having to change the tickel charge current value in the setup menue for every different battery is very annoying.

Instead, in the setup menu, let the user decide the % value of the tickle charge in relation to the capacity, and the % value of the intervals in which the current is switched on.

For example, the user selects 10% tickle charge current and 10% time interval.

Now, he charges a battery, and it finishes with 1000mAh of capacity that was charged in.
With his settings, there would be 100mA tickle charge current, for 6 seconds in every minute.

This solution would be perfect for Ni- Cells.

Cheers,

Julez
Hello Julez
It's really kind of you to give us these suggestions,we have read them carefully and disccussed with our engineer.
The following are our answers:
first,for the cooling fan,your suggestion for the cooling fan to push air rather than suck air is good,but it's difficult to set push air fan for 1010B's structure,because most of the the cooling fan are not design for pushing air,such as the cooling fun for computer.
Second,for the motor drive, maybe it's useless for aircrafts users,but there existed brush-motor in car model,of course,if most of our customers require to drop the brush motor,we will fullfil the customers demands!
Third for the Program select:
we will collect more information about the program select,how about this program select:
the former:
LiPO BALANCE CHG
2.0A 11.1(3S)
in this program,the user can alter the current and cell count.in the new program we will add the alteration for battery types! then there is no use to alter the program select,
XXXX BALANCE CHG XXXX:REFERS TO Lipo,Life,Lilo
2.0A 11.1(3S)
how about it?

The forth for trikle current
we will adopt your suggetion and make the related alteration!we will reduced the minimum trikle current to 20mA,but it really difficut to be lower.
Thanks again!
Best wishes!
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 06:31 AM
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Germany
Joined Dec 2003
5,251 Posts
Some more suggestions.

Hello Junsi,

Thank you for considering my suggestions.

Quote:
first,for the cooling fan,your suggestion for the cooling fan to push air rather than suck air is good,but it's difficult to set push air fan for 1010B's structure,because most of the the cooling fan are not design for pushing air,such as the cooling fun for computer.
Ok, if it does not work in your case, it is not a big problem. I just looked through my collection of old computer fans, and most of them have the rotor 1-2mm recessed compared to the level of the outer casing. Hovever, I found one, where the rotor was level, so this one would not work if mounted the other way round. If your fan is of such a type, I understand your problem.
Anyway, not a big deal.

Quote:
Second,for the motor drive, maybe it's useless for aircrafts users,but there existed brush-motor in car model,of course,if most of our customers require to drop the brush motor,we will fullfil the customers demands!
Yes, that is certainly correct. I have the opinion, better having a feature and not needing it, than to need a feature and not having it.
But still, as this feature is not needed every day, I think it is more convenient for the user to place it a little more backwards in the program, and not in the "front row", like the normal charging options, which one uses every time.

Quote:
Third for the Program select:
we will collect more information about the program select,how about this program select:
the former:
LiPO BALANCE CHG
2.0A 11.1(3S)
in this program,the user can alter the current and cell count.in the new program we will add the alteration for battery types! then there is no use to alter the program select,
XXXX BALANCE CHG XXXX:REFERS TO Lipo,Life,Lilo
2.0A 11.1(3S)
how about it?
Yes, this looks good!

But I found no reference on the manual, page 8, on how to switch between the settings for current and cell count. I assume one has to press "enter" briefly?
So the whole adjustment would work like this:

Set Lixx type (+/-) "enter"-->Set current (+/-)"enter"-->Set cell count (+/-)

If this is the way it works, it is very good!

One suggestion still: The order should be "LiFe->LiIo->LiPo".
This way, if one accidently skips this point, the battey is charged in LiFe mode. Thus, the voltage is too small, but it won't hurt the battery. Better than having the battery type with the highest voltage at the beginning.
On the screen of the charger, please show the battery type differences in capital letters.
"LiFe,LiIo,LiPo"
This way, the battery type is easier to see, than with small letters:
"Life,Liio,Lipo"

Quote:
The forth for trikle current
we will adopt your suggetion and make the related alteration!we will reduced the minimum trikle current to 20mA,but it really difficut to be lower.
I understand thet it is difficult for the charger to accurately monitor these very low currents.
But this is not the problem, when applying my pulsed current idea.
With pulsed current, the current can be higher, and better to monitor. But, because it is pulsed, the average current will still be very low.
If you pulse 50mA at 10% of the time, you effectively get 5mA. 50mA should be good to monitor for the charger, and being pulsed, it is better for the battery, too.
So you have one solution for both problems!

Quote:
the 1010B doesn't limit the current to 1C,users can choose the current limited within 10A,the stardard 1C for LIpo is just a sgguestion for user according to the battery's standard,of course,you can charge Lipo with up to 2C.
Very good!

Quote:
when in normal charge, if you don't connect to the balancing port,take a 3S Lipo for example, you set the charge current at 5A ,when the chager enter into CV, the voltage reaches 4.2*3=12.6V,the charge progress will safely stop when the charge current reduce to 1/10C=500mA.
I think 1/10C is a bit high. Especially LiIon batterys, which have a higher inner resistance, have a much longer CV period. When the charge stopps at 1/10C, they might not be charged completely.
In my transmitter, for example, I have 3s LiIon (not LiPo!) cells. I have one charger, which stops at 1/160C, and one charger, which stops at 1/10C. When charging with the 1/10C charger, and then connecting it to the 1/160C charger, it adds more than 300mAh additionally. This is a good 15% of charge that is lost, if the charger stops too early.

So my suggestion would be, to add a feature in the setup menu, where one can enter the value when the charge should stop. So everyone would be satisfied.

Quote:
if you connect to the balancing port,the 1010B can monitor each cell's voltage,when the cell's voltage over 4.25V,the 1010B will teminate the charge progress with error.
This termination only happens in "normal charge" mode, where no balancing is made, correct?
In "balance charge" mode, the charger will lower the charge current, if one cell reaches a dangerously high voltage level, correct?


- I also read in the manual, that the charger will stop charging when the supply voltage falls under the value programmed in the setup menu. How about this idea:
When the voltage level is too low, the charger should decrease the charging current, to lower the load on the power supply or battery. This would be much more convenient, especially when using a power supply: This way, the charger can always pull the maximum current from the supply, without having to adjust anything in the setup menu.

- I read in the manual, that the charger will stop the charge when the temperature reaches more than 65°C.
I think it would be better, if the charging current was linearly reduced when the temperature rises dangerously. I have a charger, that adjusts the current according to the temperature, also when it discharges. I think this is a very good feature.

Quote:
we will consider adding USB link to the next generation of iCharger series!
it will take a time to develop the software PC procedure for us,but,it won't take long time to design 1010B USB connector as a hardware update. Currently, we haven't offer the sofeware update for customers,only for our manufaturer! when we add USB connector,we might offer the software update right for customers!
Please make the software updateable by the user! This is a great feature nowadays. Knowing that one will be able to update a charger when new ideas or new battery types emerge, is a huge benefit, and will make the charger more valuable for many people!

Sincere regards,

Julian
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