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Old Jun 13, 2008, 04:55 AM
Fighter of Gravity
woolebugr's Avatar
Joined Aug 2007
316 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tymbrewolf
I also use hot glue for wheel retainers but I cut a piece of a cheap ball point pen refill. I fill it full of hot glue and then slip over the music wire.
That's a great idea! Thanks y'all.
I tried the heat shrink tubing to increase diameter of the axle and it worked perfectly. It totally eliminated the wobble.
My order from HC arrived yesterday so I'm good to go for a maiden sometime this weekend if the weather cooperates
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Old Jun 13, 2008, 05:18 AM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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I have been asked by several flyers how I got my NB to roll so fast. I'm not really sure. I'm wondering if it is the tall fuselage working against the rudder. The tall fuselage also has potential for simple landing gear. I actually decreased throws because it rolled even faster than this and was hard to control.

My NB is 21.5" diameter so I would suspect it would roll slower with the larger diameter. I balanced it at 25% of root cord. The only difference is the fuselage. I'll repost the video so you can see the fuselage without having to go hunting.

Any aeronautical engineers out there with an opinion?

By the way I have even flown this with a 3s 1320TP 3 oz battery in higher wind and it flew fine. I have a 6A max draw with the 1200 kv with a 7x6 prop and I fly it at part throttle because it is overpowered it flew 30 min or so.

I launch at half throttle or it is all over the sky. Once up it handles full throttle well.

Nutball Maiden Flight 6-7-08 (4 min 12 sec)
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Old Jun 13, 2008, 10:27 AM
flyin' fool
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Vancouver Island, Canada
Joined Jul 2003
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I'm no engineer, but I can tell you what it takes to get a RET model to roll like that.....the proper combination of dihedral, a 'tall' rudder and the right CG. My NutBalls roll almost around their axis, just as if they had elevons and like a drill bit. So do the other local NBs, so there's no secret formula.

I have had other designs roll just as well with just rudder, flatties and fatties, even conventional balsa built up models. It was Fred Reese's designs that lead me to this discovery and here's a picture of his Quickie from 1972, a 10/15 sized pylon racer that rolled great. It was a fun fly model to be reckened with and I won lots of 'most number of spin events' with it. I have even built one with 'E' power using a RC off road truck motor with big honkin batteries and an on/off switch for motor control (the heavy 70's), and also one as a auto gyro, which also rolled very well, for an auto gyro that is.

Many of his designs were simple, without ailerons and all rolled better than most rudder turners.
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Old Jun 13, 2008, 05:17 PM
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Well, I am no engineer not really even a decent pilot. But, I can get my two per plan NB's to roll faster than I can count. Lee, speed definitely has an impact on the rolls, at least on mine. As you have yours running on 3S and a 7x6 prop, I would think that would have as much to do with the rolling ability as your fatty fuse. The fuse does give a different old timer look to the NB. Lee, where is your battery, I would think yours would roll even better with the battery on top of the wing. My opinions, to be taken with a grain of salt.
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Old Jun 13, 2008, 05:55 PM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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My battery is under the leading edge of the wing on the fuse. I originally did the old timer fuse to keep a certain friend from breaking props. He has developed prop breaking to an art worthy of mention. I like the odd duck look.

I think the added weight of the heavier battery and the higher speed are factors in the roll rate. I've flown enough that I would be bored if it wasn't a little on the edge.
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Old Jun 13, 2008, 06:58 PM
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Like, I said Lee, take my comments with a grain of salt. I do try to pick up new things every year or so. Planes for me have been only one my last year's hobbies(this time around). If it weren't for the great instruction from this site, including your blog and other posts, I might never have gone past the Air Hog toys.

Heck, I even think that Frank's understanding of his own design continues to change as he flies this nimble machine. What could be more simple fun. It can be set up for a trainer and intermediate RET plane to quite the park jet all staying RET two servo simple and even more wild on the edge overpowered. Mine are ballistic enough 2s and still hover great in the small venues I fly in.
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Old Jun 14, 2008, 11:40 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
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Ive been experimenting with the cog position in order to improve the rolls..gone from well forward to almost too far back but with no change on the roll rate...I did get a much improved glide on a more rearward cog, but going further back made this worse again...
I am coming to think its all down to the airflow over the controll surfaces either from the speed of the plane or the prop pitch giving a faster flow over a smaller area.
my usual prop on the little blue is an 8x4 so next I will try lees 7x6 to get more airspeed and flow, and we will see what happens.


The Big Nutball 32"...this plane is well forgiving on its cog position, you can fly it well forward or well back and still keep it under controll..I was moving a 2000 11.1 battery about, and from its forward position at 1/2" from the leading edge, I could move it about 3" back without going too far. the battery is orientated with its length along the fuz, not across.. but when you maiden always have the cog to the front end of the reccomended positions

dave
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Old Jun 14, 2008, 12:02 PM
Old F-4 Crewchief
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Schertz, Texas, United States
Joined May 2004
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Finally! A windless morning. Headed out to the high school. Slapped a battery in a different position. Plopped her on the ground and throttled up. Off she went. No tailstands this time. Still a little tail heavy. Quickly landed and moved the battery up an inch. One more time. That did the trick. A little trim and all is good. Flys a bit faster than I was hoping but still can do tight 10' circles. Loops almost within its own length. Still need to experiment with different batteries and props. Using a 9x4.7 prop on a 20g motor. Would happily trade the speed for thrust. The batteries are old 2s-900. Seem to loose power quickly. All in all, a good outing. Looking forward to tomorrow.
Rick
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 05:06 PM
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Ilford,Essex, UK
Joined May 2006
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Dave ....Our "sponge" Nutball is running a 9046 and spins like a like a bee in a blender

After some electronic problems we fitted a bp21 to the 24" as a test, shame I did not have a cam with me, with the extra power it hovered steady as a rock or went straight up.
It will do anything you tell it still on a 9046 7.4 2s. Brilliant design!!!!
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 05:16 PM
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Dave, my 20ish" with a BW 1200Kv flew well witha gws 9047. I haven't. I switched to a bigger custom wound motor and now it even more wow on 2s. The 17" 2s 17g 1700kv with 7x6 is very aerobatic. I sometimes still can't believe they roll so fast without elevons.
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 07:12 PM
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Ilford,Essex, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tymbrewolf
Dave, my 20ish" with a BW 1200Kv flew well witha gws 9047. I haven't. I switched to a bigger custom wound motor and now it even more wow on 2s. The 17" 2s 17g 1700kv with 7x6 is very aerobatic. I sometimes still can't believe they roll so fast without elevons.

17g ????
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 07:50 PM
Fighter of Gravity
woolebugr's Avatar
Joined Aug 2007
316 Posts
I was able to maidened my 20" today and WOW! Flys great and floats even better. I finally have something I can fly in front of the house. She is powered by a 24g BW and 500mAh 3s with a 9x5 prop or 500mAh 2s with a 10x4.7 prop, 2 9g servos, Berg 4l receiver, and Turnigy 10a esc.
She rolls pretty well, but not at the rate some of you guys are talking about. I was wondering how much travel my rudder should have. I did move my control rod out a couple of steps on the servo end, so that should help, but I haven't flown it since I made that adjustment. Thanks Goldguy, for a great design
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 08:55 PM
"It's a Quad" :O
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Temecula
Joined Jul 2004
3,179 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolebugr
I was able to maidened my 20" today and WOW! Flys great and floats even better. I finally have something I can fly in front of the house. She is powered by a 24g BW and 500mAh 3s with a 9x5 prop or 500mAh 2s with a 10x4.7 prop, 2 9g servos, Berg 4l receiver, and Turnigy 10a esc.
She rolls pretty well, but not at the rate some of you guys are talking about. I was wondering how much travel my rudder should have. I did move my control rod out a couple of steps on the servo end, so that should help, but I haven't flown it since I made that adjustment. Thanks Goldguy, for a great design
That's why I like this plane too...stick a battery on it and throw it out of the garage!

I can't get mine to roll well at all and I have about 45 degrees of movement. I think the guys that get theirs to roll that fast have made a deal with the devil or something. I've never seen a RET roll fast at all...
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 11:44 PM
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Upup, the 17g motor is from lazertoyz.com http://www.ncweb.com/biz/dan/Motors.html

Wool, and WZ, I too was getting a slower roll with my 20" with the 1200Kv BW. It was only when I went to a custom wound motor by Dave North that is putting out over 15oz of thrust on 2s and my AUW is 6.6oz that the rolls were comparable to the 17". It was fun on the BW, but not as fast. I only went up about 3oz of thrust but at a cost of only 6g of weight. That 3oz made a big difference.
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Old Jun 16, 2008, 04:04 AM
Foam Junkie
USA, WV, Weston
Joined Nov 2006
98 Posts
My 22 incher seemed to roll OK with a BW on 2S and a 1047 but when I went to 3S and a 0905 at WOT it rolls so fast that I can not count them. I think the increase in speed is the ticket. You need good airflow over the control surfaces. ThickThumbs ~ Anthony
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