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Old Mar 20, 2008, 12:29 PM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
Vancouver Island, Canada
Joined Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tymbrewolf
Thanks Frank. The only thing I might add from my experiments and what I learned from Gene yesterday is the motor mount placement. I believe it needs to be at or above the wingline. Do you agree? I think that is what I have been doing wrong with my squirts or I would be touting them as the perfect plane. I am glad you finally got up a thread. I also believe your rudder and your amount of dihedral will be improvements. The 17" size is great to throw on your front seat.
Gene is correct. The NB's motor is mounted dead centre with the DT adjusted physcially. But, I have other foamies where the motor is mounted above and below and I can't tell the diffence. But, you should see how I fly.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 01:59 PM
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MacBeth, SC
Joined Aug 2007
899 Posts
Hot Diggity Dawg!*G*

A new project! Kewl Frank. Looks great. The wife had me take a pickup load of
goodies to Goodwill this a.m. and I took advantage of prowling the store while there.
I found a NIB electric foam cutter along with three sheets of depron, glue, and an
acrylic paint kit for $3.50 marked down from $29.99. Great time to make a new
foamie.*G* Thanks for the plans. Warm regards, Jim
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 04:30 PM
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USA, AL, New Hope
Joined Jan 2008
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Man!I can't wait to jump on this band wagon!One problem.All my gear is to heavy.I've got a TP24110-12D,TP2410-09Y,3s 1100mah and a 2c 900mah 15c.Smallest servo's are 8g.Think I could make one with the above?Would a bigger nutball work?I can't wait on the slow boat from china!I want a NB like yesterday!
I don't understand something.I see alot of foamies call for 2s or 3s 460s,730s,300s.I assume 460s,730s,300s is the mah.What C rating and how do you get good run times on such low mah?Where do you get lipo's like 460s at?All I have seen are the higher mah(1500,2200) Lipo's.Oh! What kind of esc's are you guy's useing?

Thanks,
Buzz!
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 05:00 PM
Out the Window
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United States, FL, Alachua
Joined Jul 2004
1,299 Posts
Goldguy,

Congratulations on what sounds like a great flying/easy building airplane. I just got in some 9mm EPP and have a new Blue Wonder setting around here! I have been looking at the Hoot, Smart Dart, Bullseye, and Opus to build when I have some free time, but this looks very good also. You mentioned that it will do more than the Dart, what will it do?

I have house guests coming in next week...then taxes....man I sure would like to build a plane instead. It is a lot more fun and less expensive than taxes!

How is the motor mounted to the EPP? Any close up photos of the mount?

I have only built 3 trainer foamies and am teaching myself to fly and want to move on to something with more capable tricks, do you think this would be a good choice? I love my Blu-Babies but want to try something different and EPP sounds good for the way I fly!!

Ray
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 06:46 PM
flyin' fool
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Vancouver Island, Canada
Joined Jul 2003
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buzz: So many questions.

Fight times are determinded by how much you draw from your batteries. Flight performance is determined by the weight of your model. They are connected in that the extra weight of the battery, whether going to a 2 cell pack from a 3 cell pack or from a heavy battery to a lighter battery could make a big difference in how well the model flys and for how long. However, the battery size and capacity is determined by how much juice your motor needs to make it work. Generally, if you go to a 2S set up you can use a bigger prop and for a 3S a smaller prop, as you have to keep the amp draw to what the motor can handle. The manufacturers wind the motors to handle either two cells, three cells, etc. You can always use less cell than recommended, but at a cost of performance.

To figure what size to build.......weigh everything you have that makes the model fly and estimate about how much just the model will weigh. If your flight equiptment weighs 5 ounces and you think you can build a 4 ounce airframe, then that total of nine ounces is what to work with when trying to come up with a size to give you a reasonable wing loading.

OK, now get a sheet of paper and start drawing circles to keep track of you math (just doodle, not to scale). Mark one 20", one 21" one 22" and so on. Now get out the calculator and multiply the radius X the radius X 3.1415 to get the wing area of each circle in square inches. Now divide each total by 144 to get the square feet of each of those circles. So far, so good. Now what you want to do is find the wing loading for each of those circles if your finished model is to weigh 9 ounces. To do that, divide that total weight of 9 ounces by the square feet of each of those circles and pick the one that gives you the lowest wing loading for a reasonable size.

Here's an example for a 20 incher......

10 X 10 X 3.1415 = 314.15
314.15 divided by 144 = 2.18 sq. ft.
9 ounces divide by 2.18 sq. ft. gives you a wing loading of 4.13 ounces per square feet, which would be about perfect.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 06:52 PM
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USA, AL, New Hope
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Yes!!!Thank you man!Im fixin to go draw circles master.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 07:38 PM
flyin' fool
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Vancouver Island, Canada
Joined Jul 2003
7,384 Posts
Ray:

It depends on what kind of a mount your motor has. If it has a bearing tube sticking out the back, I use one of those clamp type mounts on a square stick glued into the foam with hot melt. If it has a back plate mount, I glue on a square of aircraft ply, 'eye balling' the thrust lines, then back it up with blocks of foam and trim off the excess with a very sharp blade.

What will the NutBAll do better than a Dart? Hummmm, where to start?

It can fly slower than slow, harries and hovers much better with improved control at all speed ranges. Turns on a dime, loops both both ways and rolls both ways more precisely, the rolls being more around the axis, so rolling circles are a breeze. Does nice stall turns if you don't give her too much rudder and flys inverted much much better, keeping in mind that when inverted the rudder command is opposite of course. You can pull off 'walls' and 'elevators' like a Shockie and inverted spins are hard to count because it becomes a blurr. If you hang it on the prop, it does not too bad torque rolls too. Keep in mind that this is all I've tried do far and have the rudder/elevator at about 45 degress travel at full throw and the CG well back.

OR......as a trainer it can cruise around slowly always wanting to fly right side up all by it's self.

I think what make the different and in my opinion a better flyer that the Dart, is the polyhedral and it's shorter coupled.

Try one and see, it's so easy to build there's no reason not too. It will be interesting to see if the other guys here back up my claims, or just consider me 'Frank the Crank'.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 07:49 PM
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ST.LOUIS
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Buzz. I've had good luck with the lilttle 350 2 and 3 cells from bphobbies. Fairly affordable. 15.00 or so.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 07:57 PM
flyin' fool
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Vancouver Island, Canada
Joined Jul 2003
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Spread the load when mounting horns and landing gear. Just suggestions from another model, but can be used on the NB.
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Last edited by goldguy; Mar 21, 2008 at 11:42 AM.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 08:26 PM
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Nashua NH
Joined Jan 2007
307 Posts
Was gonna build the Albcorde this weekend. I think I'llput that off another week.

Thanks Frank

Davd
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 09:20 PM
Flying Models for 51 Years!
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Georgia, United States
Joined Oct 2002
826 Posts
Goldguy

You mention in the 1st post that your building two more 20" Nut Balls. I noticed that the plans are for a 17". Which diameter is best, the 17" or 20"?
Also can you give some more info on the Landing Gear, such as wheel and wire diameter. I have plenty of 9mm EPP and Blue FFF. Great design, gotta build one!!

Thanks
Bobby
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 09:30 PM
flyin' fool
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Vancouver Island, Canada
Joined Jul 2003
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That 17 incher only has a HobbyCity 10g motor on it, a 18g would be better.

The 20 inchers I'm building are for motors that weigh around 25 grams (plus) and put out 50 to 70 watts. I like reserve power........power is fun.

For the landing gear on my bigger ones, I'm going with this method.........050 music wire and 1 1/2" wheels. The wire is bent in one piece and also acts as a wing brace. It's hot melted into a slot at the base and lashed with button thread to a small CF tube that's glued down the bottom spline/fuse. Easy, LIGHT and super strong.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 09:35 PM
Out the Window
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United States, FL, Alachua
Joined Jul 2004
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goldguy....Frank

Thank you for the info. Sounds great! I will be busy for a couple of weeks at least so there will be plenty of time for some of these "quick builders" here to give your design a try . My money is on the results being the same as yours!

Quick question please? How can you do a roll with a rudder elevator aircraft? I thought you needed ailerons to do a roll. I have done some snap rolls with my Blu-Baby putting the right stick at a 45 degree angle, but they were kind of "out of control" looking. I am just trying to figure out these things!


Ray
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 09:35 PM
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New Hampshire-seacoast area
Joined Jun 2005
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OK I had to glue this up when I came home from work. Didn't Ihave any EPP , using blucor. what you see weighs 2.3oz, 20" diam.

Hate to pop the servos out of my Dart, but hey how many planes do I need??

I'll gear it up tomorrow, big winds forcast for the next 2 days.

Paul
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 10:02 PM
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Nashua NH
Joined Jan 2007
307 Posts
Nice Paul!!!

Just printed upplans Iwill be using the last of my sloper steves 9mm epp for this build. Cutting in the morning.

David

ps Yes Iam taking a sick day tomorrow LOL
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