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Old Sep 17, 2009, 05:11 PM
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Have myself exported "live" ie equipped airframes etc to India, (and back out again) when doing demos for Indian Army of small surveillance types. They wanted to be sure that batteries were in a seperate container,( they were not li-pos) otherwise no problem.You should establish the validity of the customer, ie "Not member of suspect organisation" and get them to forward to you copies of Customs inward clearance certificates, otherwise you could find yourself in deep kaki. Across the Indian border is Pakistan, across that is Afghanistan........There are R/C model aircraft clubs in India, especially in the Delhi area, there are several small firms making small UAVs, hopeful of orders from the military, and the Military already operate UAVs of different types, some homegrown and some imported ; one wonders why your customer doesnt support the local market?
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 11:51 AM
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I agree with 90% of your ideas, but this one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Harper View Post
Altitude - less than 1000 ft
doesn't work because the lower legal limit for GA aircraft is 500 ft. AGL.
The 400ft limit ensures 100ft of separation between us and them.

I don't like it either though
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 03:41 PM
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Patrick,

I understood from your podcast at DIYDRONES that the US rule-making process had sort of slowed down and may take a few years. My perception was that part of the problem was there at least to some extent were limitided knowledge about sUAVs among the rulemakers. Because the use of sUAVs probably still is in the early days, in my view they are hardly to blame for that.

With my only brief experience from rulemaking-processes, (in Europe offcourse), I know that rulemakers are normally anxious about making rules for a field they do not fully understand. What they then often do is to call in all stakeholders, experts, interestgroups etc. (often called lobbyists), simply because they want to know as much as possible about the consequenses of the regulations the want to put into place. I think they all are familiar with histories of regulations that went wrong/led to un-expected results. (E.g. in Europe, we had our "banana-directive" which led to eternal glory for its creators. In the end they had to pull the whole directive).

What I am trying to say by all this is actually only this: I would find it to be highly likely that the regulators at some point in time would want to get in touch with the main community of hobbyist sUAV'ers. And where are they to be found, if not here and at DIYDRONES? Therefore, In my opinion, somebody on one of these forums should take a role in leading a process on the forum, write down proposals, sort out, and try to obtain a concensus of what the hobbyist community would regard as censible rules for our activities in the future.


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Old Nov 28, 2009, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakar View Post
What I am trying to say by all this is actually only this: I would find it to be highly likely that the regulators at some point in time would want to get in touch with the main community of hobbyist sUAV'ers.
Unfortunately you make an assumption that does not hold true. If that were the case, contact and inclusion would have been made some 5 years ago when all this started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brakar View Post
And where are they to be found, if not here and at DIYDRONES?
You are correct in that they do lurk in these places, but only as an intel sort of activity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brakar View Post
Therefore, In my opinion, somebody on one of these forums should take a role in leading a process on the forum, write down proposals, sort out, and try to obtain a concensus of what the hobbyist community would regard as censible rules for our activities in the future.
This very thing was attempted 5 years ago by RCAPA and we were lionized as fomenting the very thing we were attempting to head off. Regardless, with this effort we were included on the SUAS ARC represented by Mr. Patrick Egan. This effort seemed to have been minimized as there is now a new "standards" committee being started by our FAA departee Bruce Tarbert at the freshly government granted New Mexico UAV testing facility. Square one!
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Old Nov 29, 2009, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CenTexFlyer
Unfortunately you make an assumption that does not hold true. If that were the case, contact and inclusion would have been made some 5 years ago when all this started.
I think the situation has changed in important ways since 5 years ago; Back then, there probably were close to zero hobbyist small UAVs, and the objective of most people involved in those processes were probably to keep things that way, for several reasons. A few:
- no one wanted the technology to be spread, (terrorists etc),
- commercial producers did not want competition,
- the hobbyist community to small to be noticed.

The situation now:
- technology is open source and widly awailable,
- lots of new products are being developed,
- the hobbyist community is growing,
- President Obama is advocating the use of sUAVs (Blimpduino) http://www.diydrones.com/profiles/bl...ence-education

Therefore, if I was in charge of making new regulations for UAVs, I would probably have come to the conclusion that it was no longer a viable way to pretend the hobbyist community did not exist. The next logical step to make would then be to learn more about that bastard, and see how it could be dealt with - like it or not.

Quote:
This effort seemed to have been minimized as there is now a new "standards" committee being started by our FAA departee Bruce Tarbert at the freshly government granted New Mexico UAV testing facility. Square one!
I do not belive the sUAV most of the hobbyists are using will ever comply with most of these standards. In my experience safety-standards mentioning numbers like 10e-6 or 10e-9 are extremely hard to comply with - even for big commercial companies. In this context, our UAVs are best regarded as flying prototypes. Single error=falling down. Equipment may be added to improve failure rates, but not that fact.

First question then will be; can they be banned? We all know the fist answer to this question was Yes, (maybe still are). The rapidly growing dilemma with this answer is there will be a conciderable number of new minor chriminals in the US, guilty in performing harmless activities recomended by the US President. Regularors might find themselvs sitting with a "blimp-act" or "toy-plane act", ref. the european "banana-directive".

Hence, I think there are several good reasons to do some re-thinking of the initial "yes" answer. So I agree, back to square one.

Btw, the energy represented by lots of sUAVs are actualy at the same level as a kicked football or a flying medium sized bird, so it beats me why they are regarded as such a big threat to people and planes.
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Old Dec 05, 2009, 12:40 AM
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Simple! How can you guaranty that you will not have a flyaway or other mishap that may endanger someone else's safety (air or ground)? Until you can prove 10-6/10-9 or some equivalent level of safety you are considered a hazard. Some very simple technological solutions are available to them, but I won't post what they are.
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Old Dec 05, 2009, 12:51 AM
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Just read your post addressed to me. Many of the regulators and people on the safety risk management panel (going over the ARC recommendations) were in attendance for Chris’s presentation at AUVSI 2008. The feedback I heard was, that basically “that guy is a nut” and no way would anyone sign on to an uncertified auto pilot. There are no provisions for the autonomous anything in the type 1 bin. The Type 2 will require some level of certification (no one knows what that will look like.) There are no provisions for it in the hobby regs here or in Europe. I have heard that Norway is maverick on some of this stuff, but in the end ascribe to the ICAO.
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Old Dec 06, 2009, 04:52 PM
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brakar,
Are you part of this?

http://www.flyoperativtforum.no/agendauav/agendauav.htm
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Old Dec 07, 2009, 04:21 AM
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No, (only in receiving end).

However, I made some phonecalls. Short story of what I found out is this:

1. Recreational use of UAVs will be allowed in Norway, (400' + VLOS), as for regular RC's

2. Commercially use will also be allowed, but application will be neccessary. (Safety must be documented and there must be an incurance). This regime was ment to be possible to live with also for smaller businesses.

3. FPV-flying will be regarded as UAVs. There have been some incidents, and my impression was that this form of flying basically was ragarded as un-wanted.
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Old Dec 07, 2009, 09:33 AM
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Well then, we may want to cozy up to this notion as t is the only example I've seen. Does Norway have a model flying association?
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Old Dec 08, 2009, 01:14 AM
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Norwegian air sports federation: www.nlf.no (web-pages only in norwegian)
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Old Dec 08, 2009, 10:13 AM
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Do they have best practices or something like an AC 91-57 with recommendations and limits on flying?
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Old Dec 08, 2009, 11:10 AM
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This one: http://www.modellfly.info/Sikkerhet/Sikkerhet.asp (more norwegian...)

And this one: http://www.luftfartstilsynet.no/rege...ticle18535.ece
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Old Dec 08, 2009, 07:31 PM
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Could you translate altitude and distance limits please?
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Old Dec 09, 2009, 02:25 AM
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The reccommendations are 400' + LOS

Google translate; http://www.translate.google.com/#no|en| can be used for crude translation of text and web-pages.
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