Regulatory FAQ - Page 4

patrickegan · May 17, 2009, 10:13 PM

Funny stuff, there are plenty of hundred million dollar projects that don't do very much flying. I can think of several under utilized programs (paper weights) off the top of my head. A few half million dollar foam projects too.

Tom Harper · Jun 15, 2009, 09:46 AM

I see a variety of figures and restrictions in threads here. Some make sense (not a requirement of regulation) and some do not. There is a lot of activity worldwide, so some definitions and regulations would be timely.

Some comments:

Weight - I would prefer 5 Kg. That's the traditional FAI limit for model aircraft - 3 Kg (a number I've seen discussed) is too limiting.

VSOL - Too vague. The limit of visibility for a model is, arguably, 1 Km. A fixed, allowable radius of operation makes sense.

Commercial, grants etc. - Safety is not related to intent. Most student and non-profit activity would be considered grant funded. Requiring a COA for that activity is absurd. There is no functional reason to regulate against commercial activity conducted within the definition of a model aircraft.

Altitude - I believe the 400 ft limit is imposed within some proximity to an airport. Beyond that, 1000 feet would place models below normal GA operation.

Populated areas - Models should not be operated in populated areas. UAS operation should not pass over residences (without specific reason and permission) or paved roads.

So, I'd say the regs should allow:

Weight - less than 5 Kg

Altitude - less than 1000 ft

Distance - Up to 1 Km from operator

Location - unpopulated areas only

Application - unlimited (perhaps non-ordnance)

Why would the above need further legal limits? How could it even be detected and monitored?

patrickegan · Jun 21, 2009, 01:27 PM

Most of this would be acceptable to the UAS community, but way beyond the comfort level of the manned stakeholders. Want to make your opinions known? Fill out the Ops matrix and send it in.

Tom Harper · Jun 22, 2009, 06:49 AM

Ops matrix?

patrickegan · Jun 22, 2009, 08:19 PM

http://www.rcapa.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50

FrankC · Jul 23, 2009, 07:58 PM

I have been reading this document and have a question from the Appendix A: Summary Matrix section. On page 57 is a section concerning Visual Observers and when they are required. The last entry in that section is "Heads-down" but that text only appears in that one spot in the document. Does someone know what they mean by "heads-down"?

patrickegan · Jul 26, 2009, 12:26 PM

Raven is a heads down system. You view a monitor seeing the ground while flying (FPV). You are not scanning the airspace for other traffic, or sensing and avoiding.

EPiXNiCROS · Aug 18, 2009, 03:45 PM

I just finished reading this entire thread and I'm a little confused because I've also been reading the FAA regulations for unmanned free balloons. According to the FAA regulations you need to have some control over a free balloon so at what point does a free balloon become a UAV? I would like to fly an unmanned free balloon at high altitude (+100,000') but I would also like to have have some control over the altitude and direction of travel.

patrickegan · Aug 18, 2009, 04:03 PM

When you are getting paid. You should call the UAPO and ask.

wbuttry · Aug 28, 2009, 05:10 PM

sounds to me the faa has really got you over a barrel if this new regs go in place we;ll half to call the faa when a bird flies or when we play sports baseball especially it is a bunch of bs to me ive been flying rc for 14 yrs and never had a problem with full scale aircraft when i flew stuff like the senior telemaster it was alway over 400 probally around 900 i always had lights on it like strobes and marker lights i think this arc is a way to keep the small men down and most of the people on arc is uav manafactures not normal people like us one person from ama wow well pat it looks like rcapa is gonna half to disban and quit just like the ama nothing new they take all th good stuff away and regulate the rest of it just the american way

brakar · Aug 29, 2009, 07:14 PM

patrickeagan, do you still follow the rulemaking process in Europe? If so, any news? brakar

patrickegan · Aug 30, 2009, 12:05 AM

Meeting in Brussels coming up in Early October I believe. ICAO is in South Africa in December, and an EC meeting early next year.

Snow*Wolf* · Sep 15, 2009, 03:28 AM

1000ft is going to be unrealistic as alot of the LSA and ultralight aircraft operate in this altitude. And it would not be monitored or detected until an accident occurred or a grey haired lady complained because a plane flew too close to her roses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Harper

I see a variety of figures and restrictions in threads here. Some make sense (not a requirement of regulation) and some do not. There is a lot of activity worldwide, so some definitions and regulations would be timely.

Some comments:

Weight - I would prefer 5 Kg. That's the traditional FAI limit for model aircraft - 3 Kg (a number I've seen discussed) is too limiting.

VSOL - Too vague. The limit of visibility for a model is, arguably, 1 Km. A fixed, allowable radius of operation makes sense.

Commercial, grants etc. - Safety is not related to intent. Most student and non-profit activity would be considered grant funded. Requiring a COA for that activity is absurd. There is no functional reason to regulate against commercial activity conducted within the definition of a model aircraft.

Altitude - I believe the 400 ft limit is imposed within some proximity to an airport. Beyond that, 1000 feet would place models below normal GA operation.

Populated areas - Models should not be operated in populated areas. UAS operation should not pass over residences (without specific reason and permission) or paved roads.

So, I'd say the regs should allow:

Weight - less than 5 Kg

Altitude - less than 1000 ft

Distance - Up to 1 Km from operator

Location - unpopulated areas only

Application - unlimited (perhaps non-ordnance)

Why would the above need further legal limits? How could it even be detected and monitored?

Air Head · Sep 16, 2009, 08:49 PM

I am here in the USA and someone in India wants an airframe built for a UAV.

Is there any problem with me selling them to him?

Thanks for any input

Rick

patrickegan · Sep 16, 2009, 09:33 PM

The Indian government might no let it in. I hear they're burning RC stuff at the ports of entry. If its not hardware and software you should be okay from this end. Could check with the Commerce to be sure.

Jun 15, 2009, 09:46 AM	#47
Tom Harper Lift is cheap - Drag sucks Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Socorro, NM Posts: 2,377	So what's the status of possible regulation? I see a variety of figures and restrictions in threads here. Some make sense (not a requirement of regulation) and some do not. There is a lot of activity worldwide, so some definitions and regulations would be timely. Some comments: Weight - I would prefer 5 Kg. That's the traditional FAI limit for model aircraft - 3 Kg (a number I've seen discussed) is too limiting. VSOL - Too vague. The limit of visibility for a model is, arguably, 1 Km. A fixed, allowable radius of operation makes sense. Commercial, grants etc. - Safety is not related to intent. Most student and non-profit activity would be considered grant funded. Requiring a COA for that activity is absurd. There is no functional reason to regulate against commercial activity conducted within the definition of a model aircraft. Altitude - I believe the 400 ft limit is imposed within some proximity to an airport. Beyond that, 1000 feet would place models below normal GA operation. Populated areas - Models should not be operated in populated areas. UAS operation should not pass over residences (without specific reason and permission) or paved roads. So, I'd say the regs should allow: Weight - less than 5 Kg Altitude - less than 1000 ft Distance - Up to 1 Km from operator Location - unpopulated areas only Application - unlimited (perhaps non-ordnance) Why would the above need further legal limits? How could it even be detected and monitored?

Jul 23, 2009, 07:58 PM	#51
FrankC FrankC Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ocala, Florida Posts: 345	April 2009 ARC document I have been reading this document and have a question from the Appendix A: Summary Matrix section. On page 57 is a section concerning Visual Observers and when they are required. The last entry in that section is "Heads-down" but that text only appears in that one spot in the document. Does someone know what they mean by "heads-down"?

Sep 16, 2009, 08:49 PM	#59
Air Head Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,053	Anyone know about this Question. I am here in the USA and someone in India wants an airframe built for a UAV. Is there any problem with me selling them to him? Thanks for any input Rick

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May 17, 2009, 10:13 PM	#46
patrickegan SlowStick Test Pilot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento RCAPA.NET Posts: 3,652	Funny stuff, there are plenty of hundred million dollar projects that don't do very much flying. I can think of several under utilized programs (paper weights) off the top of my head. A few half million dollar foam projects too.

Jun 21, 2009, 01:27 PM	#48
patrickegan SlowStick Test Pilot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento RCAPA.NET Posts: 3,652	Most of this would be acceptable to the UAS community, but way beyond the comfort level of the manned stakeholders. Want to make your opinions known? Fill out the Ops matrix and send it in.

Jun 22, 2009, 06:49 AM	#49
Tom Harper Lift is cheap - Drag sucks Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Socorro, NM Posts: 2,377	Ops matrix?

Jun 22, 2009, 08:19 PM	#50
patrickegan SlowStick Test Pilot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento RCAPA.NET Posts: 3,652	http://www.rcapa.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50

Jul 26, 2009, 12:26 PM	#52
patrickegan SlowStick Test Pilot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento RCAPA.NET Posts: 3,652	Raven is a heads down system. You view a monitor seeing the ground while flying (FPV). You are not scanning the airspace for other traffic, or sensing and avoiding.

Aug 18, 2009, 03:45 PM	#53
EPiXNiCROS Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1	I just finished reading this entire thread and I'm a little confused because I've also been reading the FAA regulations for unmanned free balloons. According to the FAA regulations you need to have some control over a free balloon so at what point does a free balloon become a UAV? I would like to fly an unmanned free balloon at high altitude (+100,000') but I would also like to have have some control over the altitude and direction of travel.

Aug 18, 2009, 04:03 PM	#54
patrickegan SlowStick Test Pilot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento RCAPA.NET Posts: 3,652	When you are getting paid. You should call the UAPO and ask.

Aug 28, 2009, 05:10 PM	#55
wbuttry wbuttry Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: sikeston mo Posts: 188	sounds to me the faa has really got you over a barrel if this new regs go in place we;ll half to call the faa when a bird flies or when we play sports baseball especially it is a bunch of bs to me ive been flying rc for 14 yrs and never had a problem with full scale aircraft when i flew stuff like the senior telemaster it was alway over 400 probally around 900 i always had lights on it like strobes and marker lights i think this arc is a way to keep the small men down and most of the people on arc is uav manafactures not normal people like us one person from ama wow well pat it looks like rcapa is gonna half to disban and quit just like the ama nothing new they take all th good stuff away and regulate the rest of it just the american way

Aug 29, 2009, 07:14 PM	#56
brakar Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Asker, Oslo, Norway Posts: 156	patrickeagan, do you still follow the rulemaking process in Europe? If so, any news? brakar

Aug 30, 2009, 12:05 AM	#57
patrickegan SlowStick Test Pilot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento RCAPA.NET Posts: 3,652	Meeting in Brussels coming up in Early October I believe. ICAO is in South Africa in December, and an EC meeting early next year.

Sep 16, 2009, 09:33 PM	#60
patrickegan SlowStick Test Pilot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento RCAPA.NET Posts: 3,652	The Indian government might no let it in. I hear they're burning RC stuff at the ports of entry. If its not hardware and software you should be okay from this end. Could check with the Commerce to be sure.