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Old Feb 05, 2009, 10:35 AM
Fly low, fly FAST!
keithskye's Avatar
United States, AZ, Lake Havasu City
Joined Jun 2004
111 Posts
I so wish I could add to this thread, but...

Unfortunately, I have a lot that I could say about the regulatory compliance issues facing developers of UAVs here in the US, but because I am entering into this field as a business, sharing what I know, or the ideas I have, would be giving up too much information to potential competitors. Possibly because I am used to dealing with the FAA concerning regulatory compliance procedures with regard to my "full scale" operations, dealing with them does not seem to be all that daunting of a challenge. The process of obtaining COAs, or LOAs is pretty straightforward to me. Getting such authorization is often a function of education and documentation, and must always prove beyond the shadow of a doubt how the safety issues will be addressed, with clear, easily understood and documented procedures.

I cannot say any more on the subject, but I will say this: there is a great deal of information here in this particular forum, especially by Patrick and others, and my hat is off to them for providing it. Being a licensed and current pilot of full scale aircraft will definitely help anyone who is serious about breaking into this field. I know its expensive, but if its what you want to do, then its just one of the many things you'll have to invest the time, effort and money in that will be required.

Keith McLellan
CEO
Global Air Link
www.globalairlink.biz
928-412-9995
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 02:55 AM
Flying motor mount master
fly_boy99's Avatar
San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
8,745 Posts
Funny you mention "full scale" in reference to UAV's and then mention you are certified in full scale aircraft.

Please drop the full scale baloney and only talk about the size requirements as laid out by the FAA around UAV's. If you need a refesher here is a link for ya:

http://www.uavm.com/uavregulatory.html

Btw, don't bother calling back I'm done with you.

I have my own ideas which I am pursuing and I don't need a team to pull it off.


B
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 08:51 AM
Fly low, fly FAST!
keithskye's Avatar
United States, AZ, Lake Havasu City
Joined Jun 2004
111 Posts
Hmmm...

Somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Sorry I couldn't get back to you after our first phone call, but I do have two other businesses to run and I had to take care of a TSA problem for a client. And as for being done with me, I wasn't aware that you or I had anything to do with each other in the first place. Childish comments like the one you've just made certainly won't garner any faith in your professional abilities, and I'm amazed that you would speak that way on a serious forum like this one.

I wish you the best of luck with your own ideas. We'll see if your individual approach works better than our team approach. As for full-scale, I'm referring to manned aircraft, and that is the standard to which our project will design and build, which according to our local FSDO, is the track they want us on. We've started the formal certification process and have our second meeting today.

Keith McLellan
CEO
Global Air Link, LLC
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 01:43 PM
Flying motor mount master
fly_boy99's Avatar
San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
8,745 Posts
Sure Keith sounds good, let me give you a call right back buddy.

Refer to the prior specifications for UAV classification.

Thanks,
B



Quote:
Originally Posted by keithskye
Somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Sorry I couldn't get back to you after our first phone call, but I do have two other businesses to run and I had to take care of a TSA problem for a client. And as for being done with me, I wasn't aware that you or I had anything to do with each other in the first place. Childish comments like the one you've just made certainly won't garner any faith in your professional abilities, and I'm amazed that you would speak that way on a serious forum like this one.

I wish you the best of luck with your own ideas. We'll see if your individual approach works better than our team approach. As for full-scale, I'm referring to manned aircraft, and that is the standard to which our project will design and build, which according to our local FSDO, is the track they want us on. We've started the formal certification process and have our second meeting today.

Keith McLellan
CEO
Global Air Link, LLC
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 04:50 PM
Psionic001's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Apr 2006
2,160 Posts
http://www.casa.gov.au/rules/1998casr/101/

Here's a link to Australia's CASA UAV Rules:
http://www.casa.gov.au/rules/1998casr/101/
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Old Mar 20, 2009, 09:49 AM
SlowStick Test Pilot
patrickegan's Avatar
Yumastan RCAPA.NET
Joined Feb 2003
5,820 Posts
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/digital-v...-says-faa.html

I contend that anyone getting a check or grant money is involved in a commercial operation. 14 CFR part 119 does not exclude research from the definition of "compensation or hire". Everything else we do is...
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Old Mar 20, 2009, 08:02 PM
Fly low, fly FAST!
keithskye's Avatar
United States, AZ, Lake Havasu City
Joined Jun 2004
111 Posts
A great link with the right information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickegan
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/digital-v...-says-faa.html

I contend that anyone getting a check or grant money is involved in a commercial operation. 14 CFR part 119 does not exclude research from the definition of "compensation or hire". Everything else we do is...
Patrick scores a bullseye here. Although I think that there will be some relief for the small stuff operating at relatively low altitudes, it will be up to those who are seriously interested in this to make their voices heard by the regulatory agencies, and it isn't just the FAA that is concerned about this. And not only do you have to be heard, you will have to be of one coherent voice with very well thought out ideas, plans and procedures.

If you want to have more freedom to operate in the way that most envision when first contemplating getting into the business, then you're going to have to look hard at what it will really take to share the air with full scale aircraft. I for one do not think it will be impossible to certify larger or higher flying systems, but it won't be very easy and it involves far more than most people can imagine.
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 04:09 PM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Dec 2008
53 Posts
Canadian regulations

Hello to everyone

I have been in the background for some time now watching the changes and advancements going on. One question I do have is there was a link to the Transport Canada web site that went into some requirements for UAV's that I can't seem to find anymore, does anyone have that link still?

thanks
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Old Apr 21, 2009, 11:16 AM
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Joined Dec 2008
47 Posts
I just goggled Keith's name and UAV's and found his company.
http://whisperaerospace.com/

Looks very cool.
They must have something flying or they wouldn't be looking for clients that have a payload designed, and a have the need for a UAV. You can't sell something you don't have. I bet they are allot farther along than we thing.

Cheers, Nick.
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Old Apr 21, 2009, 11:41 AM
Flying motor mount master
fly_boy99's Avatar
San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
8,745 Posts
The picture just became a lot clearer...

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Old Apr 26, 2009, 03:57 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2009
1 Posts
Hi everyone...

I'm a Quality Engineer for a UK Aerospace company, dealing with most aspects of aero structures. To be honest I can see the need for plenty of regulations and I guess most of that comes from the Insurance obligations people and companies need to survive when it comes to liability.

I've heard it touted a few times that the weight of paperwork required to get an airliner in the skies is approximately 100 times the weight of the finished article.. which, i can see everyday, is probably an under estimate of what is actually required i.e. telephone calls and email traffic etc

Personally, I'm responsible for special processes, audited by Nadcap (sorry this isn't my CV :0) i'm just trying to justify the above)

These Audits are against manufacturing methods and Local Document Control of relevant customer specifications. I'd say I'd go through about 1000kg of paper a year easily

Anyway.. I've digressed... the reason I say the above is that I feel safer, even walking down the street or going on holiday; knowing there are stringent controls in place to safe guard my existance when it comes to high speed projectiles with enough momentum to shake me free of this mortal coil

Though I don't like the idea of stifling creativity... speaking of which, the reason I joined this forum was because of my electronics habbit. I had planned to go down the Kite route to avoid any problematic restrictions on data transmission. Is anyone here a member of the picaxe forum? If so...
Code:
Serout 1,N2400,("Reyto")
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Old Apr 28, 2009, 05:50 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
5,803 Posts
I have been in and out of the UAV programing stages (not computer programing but the stage before R&D), for the last 15 years. The reason I looked into it was to have 90mm film type cameras mounted to a drone to shoot film for movies. The thought would be it would be cheaper than a pilot, and the airspace would be less controlled. But what I found out (and I did not spend a bunch of time on it) was that the FAA is very clear at this point of what they will let happen. I have seen so many people that really think that they can produce a viable UAV to sell for service in the private world that will operate in the NAS, and within controlled airspace. I have seen people put together "teams" to go after this, with out any pre-programming of what the project will even consist of. Now this is all just my opinion, and I am sure some whack job will say that they can get all the regs changed. But the FAA can't even control a pilot on a VFR flight plan that can't even read his GPS. I love reading all of the post here where a few people (not many) say that they are starting up a UAV company with zero time working on real UAV projects stating that they will get all these regs changed so they can sell the UAV they are selling. LOL. That might get it changed by 2015. Just because you can fly a plane, or might be a FULL SCALE PILOT means nothing when it comes to managing the development of the products needs, manging a design, managing work load, managing testing of avionics, managing airframe testing, and managing how this will be excepted by the world, FAA and so on. Now if you were to build a true anti gravity flying saucer that was green friendly in your garage and fly it past Boeing or Northrup, I bet you could sell it and retire, is that not the real reason someone would want to put a "team" together, MONEY?

But I said to much, I don't want the Martians to know what I am doing.

Love these threads, and rock on everyone!
DAG
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Old May 05, 2009, 05:02 AM
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Joined May 2009
3 Posts
high insurance because of this ...

removed
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Old May 17, 2009, 11:03 AM
SlowStick Test Pilot
patrickegan's Avatar
Yumastan RCAPA.NET
Joined Feb 2003
5,820 Posts
We'll, at least some are willing to try and work within the spirit of the law
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Old May 17, 2009, 08:19 PM
Flying motor mount master
fly_boy99's Avatar
San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
8,745 Posts
Funny Dag...

I guess I'm not the only one who thinks the same.

Let them believe is what I say...
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