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Old Feb 21, 2008, 03:33 PM
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Last edited by erich; Feb 21, 2008 at 04:24 PM.
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Old Feb 21, 2008, 04:24 PM
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Holden , Massachusettes
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tapio

That's a real beautiful plane, you're tossing. Was joking about the paint. Yea I know, I'm a lousy comedian. Will just use the mylar as is. But kinda like the tissue also, even that only seems to come in kinda of brown color. Have heard, it's not the best stuff to use but will probably try esaki japanese tissue on at least one plane (that does come in some colors). Going to a, fly in, on Monday, will most likely have 3 planes ready for destruction. Can't wait to see em fly.

erich
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Old Feb 21, 2008, 06:27 PM
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Erich,

I occasionally fly with Nick Ray, a well known college age indoor modeler, and he has a fleet of ministicks, all of which use dyed ultrafilm. Whatever he does, it results in a pretty strong pigment. He explained the method, basically you pour a tablespoon or so of dye into a pot of water and bring it to a boil, then drop the film in for 5-10 minutes. Keep stirring it to prevent the film from sticking to the side of the pot and burning. Then you have to remove the film and spread it out on paper towels to dry (that's the hard part, IMO). Anyway, it looks very pretty, and is quite helpful to your timer when you've got a 7" midget circling under the girders 150' up.

And here's a pic of one of Nick's mini's stuck to an air return. I'm surprised how persistent he is with them...keeps getting them stuck in the ceiling and such. I watched him show up with three of them once; left with all of them in splinters from recovery attempts. And he showed up next month with a fresh fleet of them.
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Old Feb 21, 2008, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwfinn
Nick Ray, a well known college age indoor modeler, and he has a fleet of ministicks, all of which use dyed ultrafilm. Whatever he does, it results in a pretty strong pigment. He explained the method, basically you pour a tablespoon or so of dye into a pot of water and bring it to a boil, then drop the film in for 5-10 minutes.

Ow, that is interesting. Looks like my info is outdated. Could you find out from Nick, what dye does he uses and does it work on thinner films than Ultrafilm (like OS)? It would be cool the get some colour to them, would make spotting your own plane much easier, if there are several flying at the same time.
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Old Feb 22, 2008, 01:55 AM
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Yes it is. I'd like to know what dye he uses too. When he puts it in the water is it rolled up on a tube of some kind or just loose? Great picture of plane stuck on vent, had a good chuckle on seeing that. The color looks real good though. Thanks for the info.

erich
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Old Feb 22, 2008, 06:31 AM
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Dyeing Film... (Ultrafilm, OSFilm, etc...)

Nick did an article for INAV (Indoor News and Views) a few issues ago on the method... He uses RIT dye, and blue is one of the colors that apparently works best... Fred Rash (I think...) was either the "inventor" of the method, or at least one of the first to do it...

If you subscribe to INAV, you can get the issue online... and I might post it on indoornews.com if I remember to... I forget the exact issue, but I -think- that it was #119 or #120, if memory serves... A few issues back, we did an F1L issue, which is the 1.2g EZB... lots of good information in that one...

You can go to www.indoornewsandviews.com and subscribe to the newsletter right there...

JH
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Old Feb 22, 2008, 07:23 AM
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Thanks JH. Am sending em a subscription soon as possible. That's great blue and green are the colors that look best to me.

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Old Feb 22, 2008, 12:03 PM
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Am now working on EZB #3 in Ron Williams book. Skipped #2 cause I just like the looks of 3 and not 2. Want to see how badly I can mess up those rounded wing and stab tips. Wasn't really that difficult making the rounded tips. Cut 2 pieces 1/32 x1/16, long enough to make LE and TE of half the wing. Set center section of each piece in hot water for 5 min or so, and bent around some cardboard semi-circles I had made. Used a lot of scrap balsa to hold curve in place. Got a few kinks, hopefully they won't weaken the structure too much. Anyway the effort looks good to me. Gonna try hard to keep weight down on this one. Shooting for 3-4 grams.

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Old Feb 22, 2008, 12:28 PM
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
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That jig looks great Erich. You're well on your way now.

Esaki tissue is just as heavy as the stuff you're using on your first EZB. Best to stick to the films or at the very least light condenser paper.
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 04:18 AM
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BMatthews
Have a couple of kits from A2Z which have what I believe to be condenser paper. The stuff seems quite a bit lighter than what I been using. But not as light as the mylar, as you've stated. Will put together one of these kits and see how the condenser paper works. Thanks for the heads up on the esaki had tentatively decide to order a bunch from A2Z, but will hold off till I try the condenser stuff. Will most likely end up going with the mylar eventually. I like to reinvent (or at least rediscover) the wheel, just for my own amusement.

Framed fin, plans call for a framwork with no ribs. It seemed way to flimsy that way, so added a cross piece. After adding covering, weighted (lightly) fin down so wouldn't get any warps, since I'm using a water based glue. Am covering fin first, to get some experience covering a lighter stucture, before tackling the wing.

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Old Feb 23, 2008, 01:17 PM
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
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Erich, the pins as well as the fact that you're using too thick a wood is what caused the kinks.

Try cutting a forming pattern from some balsa sheet or bristol board or similar. Now measure around the form by rolling it against a ruler so you know how long to make your outline strip. Here's where it gets fun. Sand down the CENTER of the strip so it tapers nicely to about .016 to .020. Yes, it's time to get a set of digital calipers or use a micrometer. The thinner size in the middle when soaked in the water will let it form without any kinks. You'll also want to lightly pull on the strip as you form it around the outline. Some tension helps it follow without kinking. Obviously this is why the pins are no good for outlines since as you pull on the strip it'll kink at the pin for sure.

Don't worry about strength. A non kinked but thinner outline will actually be stronger than a thicker kinked one. And as we keep saying it's just about impossible to make an indoor model too light. And as the model gets lighter it is actually stronger per weight. A lighter model will bounce while a heavier one will overstress the parts and make it break something.
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 01:47 PM
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Thanks for the help. It would never have occured to me, to thin out the wood at the center. I had actually built the fin first, that's why you see cardboard being used as the round form on wing. Using that form I only got 1 kink. Am coming up on the idea that the real problem in strength with these planes, is in, not breaking them while making them. Not sure that came out right, but you probably get what I mean.

erich
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 07:57 PM
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Am continuing work on the wing. Have covered, with tissue. Only have 2 colors (red and yellow), so have gone with red this time. Am getting a little better on the covering. Only messed up 2 times on wing. Covered both tip panels first then center section of half the wing. Glued wing together, at the dihedral, then finished covering 2nd center section. Am now using Ambroid, instead of elmers, works a whole lot better. Just my opinion but the rounded tips look good.

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Old Feb 25, 2008, 01:41 AM
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You're learning quick. Soon you'll be just like Colin Chapman....

(google for that name and Lotus cars for his engineering philosophy )

Another hint. Cover the surfaces all in one piece. Joints just require more glue. Yes you'll get the odd bit of a wrinkle when doing rounded tips but don't sweat it.
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 04:07 AM
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So on this ezb, would you glue the wing together with the polyhedral breaks, and then cover it? Or glue the wing together straight (each half was built seperately) cover and then cut in the 3 breaks?

Minimalism, huh.

erich
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Last edited by erich; Feb 25, 2008 at 04:15 AM.
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