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Old Feb 19, 2008, 07:37 PM
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Holden , Massachusettes
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Well went to a indoor fly-in. It was in a good size High School gym. Mostly guys with electric planes, lot of small helicopters. But there was one guy who had, what I can only describe as an EZB with RC. He was having trouble with his tiny tiny receiver. So he didn't do much flying, bad for him, good for me. Cause he had been flying indoor stuff for 50 years. Anywho, he helped me get my plane in the air. Which I needed a lot of help with. First of all, I broke both wing mounts off, transporting plane in what I now know, to have been a lousy box. Well he had all the equipment to fix it. Took him about 10 seconds to glue the 2 wing posts back on, straighten my wings out put in the right amount of wash in, re-set the fin to a better angle, break my prop in half, and then fix it, just as fast. Well I forgot to bring my winder, so he wound the thing up about 300 turns, and it flew, not to his satisfaction, BUT I was thrilled, it flew slowly in a big circle and even gained some height (about 20'). Probably not much by people who have done this's standards, but it made me smile. Found out some of the things I had messed up on. First had made the prop blanks with the grain running the length of prop, which I guess makes them break fairly easily. He suggested I make them with grain running at about a 45 deg. I needed about an 1/8" rubber I only had 1/16" and 3/16" stuff. PLus he said the balsa I used for LE and TE was so hard it seemed closer to being spruce. Anyway he gave a few things to do, to get ready for next session. So it's back to the work table to make a lighter wing, lighter and stronger prop. And also start the next EZB.


BMatthews

Yea found out Ambroid is the way to go, just got back from the guys house who helped me out at the meet. We (mostly he) built a penny plane together, makes mine look like it was made by a 3 year old. Showed me how to make good tubes, and how to properly bend up the nose and tail wire, how to reinforce nose bearing and tail hook. So am a bit better equipped to build next plane.


Jwfinn

Great looking couple of planes. I know believe you about the .6 grams, this guy had a ship of the same weight. He took it out with no prop and let it glide around his living room, I was flabbergasted, the thing took what seemed like a minute to fly 10' across the room, and lost maybe a few inches in height. The plane almost hovered. Way beyond what I hope to do, but am looking forward to seeing stuff like that fly in a good sized space. Wish I would have gotten into this a sooner.

Lost_Dawg

Thanks. The plane didn't look so good after coming home from flying it. But will have it looking even better in a day or so.



erich
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 07:50 PM
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carbondale il
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erich, Some good news from you! When I started out I built two Ltd. Pennyplanes. They were HEAVY and covered with tissue. Anyway one of them turned out to be a pretty good outdoor model. I've been following this thread and am thinking about building another Ltd. Pennyplane the right way - a Cezar Banks design. So thanks a lot erich. Kevin
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 07:56 PM
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Holden , Massachusettes
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Kevin

I'm originally from Marengo, Ill. Good luck with the plane, they built pretty, fast . With help was able to do everyting in one day, except prop, which we're gonna finish tomorrw. First weather inversion day this summer and I'm taking the heaviest ezb or peny plane and going outside. Hey If I lose it, I'll just make another.

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Old Feb 19, 2008, 08:05 PM
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carbondale il
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erich, I don't know where Marengo is, is it close? And did you ever come to Carbondale/SIU for anything? I'm looking forward to building this next Penny. I want to order a wood pack from Peck-Polymers put together for this very thing. I've read that I can use thinned rubber cement to attach the covering. Does anyone use carbon fiber for the frames?
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Old Feb 20, 2008, 05:52 AM
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It's between Rockford and Chicago. Never been to Carbondale, it's in the southern part isn't it?

For covering I been using aliphatic (elmers) glue heavily watered down. It's probably not the best stuff to use, but it's the only stuff I got right now. I know people use 3m 77 spray to put on mylar covering. I been covering with, what I beleive to be condenser paper. The problem with the elmers is, it tends to warp the wood, so you gotta wet down the opposite side, of glue joint. Don't know nothin about rubber cement.

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Old Feb 20, 2008, 10:38 AM
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carbondale il
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erich
Yea, Carbondale is in extreem southern Illinois. I want to avoid warping the frames by using Elmer's. I know about spray glue but I don't know if I'll be able to pull the covering tight after contact.
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Old Feb 20, 2008, 02:38 PM
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For condenser paper I used to use thinned down rubber cement applied with a brush. You need to work fast though since it dries pretty quick.
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Old Feb 20, 2008, 04:58 PM
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Thanks Bruce, As a graphic designer I'm very familiar with rubber cement which is used for camera ready art paste up. Peck-Polymers has Tru-Lite micron plastic covering. Is that condenser paper? If not will rubber cement work with that too? I'm used to working with paper.
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Old Feb 20, 2008, 05:11 PM
Free Flight rubber flyer
South Carolina
Joined Mar 2005
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Kevin,

No, the Tru-Lite not C-paper. It's basically Polymicro aka Super Ultrafilm. I use it for covering most of my indoor endurance ships and it works great. Make sure you wad the covering up into a little ball before using it. This crinkles it and removes some of the static charge, making it much easier to use and thus easier to get a tight covering job. Rubber cement will work just fine for attaching it, though I personally prefer glue stick, as it's easier to get a thin, even application of the glue. Whatever you use for adhesive, just make sure you only use a little. It doesn't take much glue, and glue is very heavy.

One other thing: this stuff is hard to cut accurately with a knife. It's much easier to cut it with a hot wire or similar. Peck sells an electric cautery for this purpose. It's part number PEN-500.00 and doesn't cost too much, so I'd recommend it.
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Old Feb 20, 2008, 05:17 PM
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carbondale il
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Thanks Joshua. About a year ago after I got my first computer I discovered the Ltd. Pennyplane. I feel that I have come full circle. I'm planning to build either Cezar Banks' Ltd. Pennyplane Model or your Parlor Mite.
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Old Feb 20, 2008, 09:10 PM
B for Bruce
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
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OH NEATO! That sounds just like how we used to "cut" the microfilm. I used to use a solid 20 guage wire wound around my soldering iron with a 1/2 inch long stub sticking out front. I'd drag that hot wire along the edge of the frame and it would melt the film nicely without right to the edge of the wood but no more.

Would that be hot enough for the Tru-Lite?
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Old Feb 21, 2008, 03:19 AM
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Have just finished building a pennyplane with a LOT of help from an indoor expert. We put 1.2 (or so) micron mylar on as a covering which is a lot lighter than the stuff I been using. He used 3m 77 spray as the glue. Crinkled up the mylar a number of times to give it a little pattern (makes for a better flying plane), before taping it down flat on the workbench using clear tape. He sprayed the 3m stuff up in the air then caught some of the glue mist as it fell, with wing, laying on a tennis racket like jig. Layed wooden part on top of taped down mylar, and patted down. Cut excess with a soldering iron. The whole thing worked really well, and made for a super light wing or tail, even though we used a rather heavy mylar film. Guess it comes in .9 and .5 micron sizes too. The only thing that I wasn't happy about, is, the color this stuff comes in. Clear. So here's a question, does any one know if this stuff comes in any colors at all?

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Old Feb 21, 2008, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erich
So here's a question, does any one know if this stuff comes in any colors at all?
No it does not. Some people have tried colouring it, by taking the pieces intended for covering, and boiling them in strong dye for colouring clothes for a long period, like an hour or two. Then it takes a lot of rinsing, and you end up with a slight hue in the film. Maybe enough to tell your model from the neighbors, when the models circle the ceiling, but yet no striking, strong colours.
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Old Feb 21, 2008, 08:10 AM
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Holden , Massachusettes
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Thanks, well that answers that. Maybe I'll get some krylon spray and give it a light coat or two.

Made a completely new wing, went from 2.5 grams to 1.8 (wing). Made new prop with grain set at an angle. New prop, is only a little lighter than 1st one but stronger (I hope), looks better anway. Put some reinforcement gussets on wing posts. It was suggested my stab was kinda small for this size wing, but have decided to keep it as is, since it's the only thing that didn't get broken or need realignment.

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Old Feb 21, 2008, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erich
Thanks, well that answers that. Maybe I'll get some krylon spray and give it a light coat or two.
Don't do the spray. It will add too much weight. You will loose all the good from using thin and light film to cover. If dyeing sounds too difficult, you might consider trying (permanent) markers. Either colour right onto the film, or thin the colour with (denaturated) alcohol and brush the colour onto the film (have not tried myself, but would guess that it will be easier before covering.
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