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Old Dec 26, 2010, 11:15 AM
Hooper, full throttle!
Tommy D's Avatar
USA, NY, East Islip
Joined Feb 2004
11,046 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyhawk View Post
85a is not much draw by todays technology standards....
Perhaps your right, but someone better tell they folks at Turnigy that

By that I mean to say, I have many 2,3,4,5,6S Packs. All from Turningy and all 40C 4000 MAH packs. (I misspoke on thr 50C comment) Many of they setups they propel are set to draw mid 60A Range. So that's what... 15C give or take? Yet these packs rated for 40C get pretty darn hot when only working at 15C. Further even if they could say give me the full 40C discharge and remain cool why would I want too?

I mean to say at 40C discharge the flight time would be ridiculously short. The Sundowner, as slippery as it is is not a hot liner. You can't get away with 160A climb for 5 seconds then dive at closed throttle. Rather if you want to go fast, your going to need to keep that throttle forward.

Nah, I would rather make my power with volts. It's way more efficient, and in the long run a lot easier on your components.

Now for people employing the amps vs volts equation, thats fine. If it works for you so be it. It's just not the route I have chosen to follow.

Tommy D

(and don't get me started on those Turnigy Nano 90C discharge packs!)

Tommy D
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 12:37 PM
Vault-Tech Approved
Racebelly's Avatar
Simi Valley, CA
Joined Apr 2003
1,285 Posts
I'm running a Scorpion 4025-12, ICE 100, 8s 5000 & 5 HS-625MG servos. I'm thinking of an external BEC.

Do you guys think the built BEC on the ICE is good for 5 standard sized servos? Or, should get the Castle 10Amp?

-Mark
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 01:21 PM
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Auckland - New Zealand
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy D View Post
Perhaps your right, but someone better tell they folks at Turnigy that

By that I mean to say, I have many 2,3,4,5,6S Packs. All from Turningy and all 40C 4000 MAH packs. (I misspoke on thr 50C comment) Many of they setups they propel are set to draw mid 60A Range. So that's what... 15C give or take? Yet these packs rated for 40C get pretty darn hot when only working at 15C. Further even if they could say give me the full 40C discharge and remain cool why would I want too?

I mean to say at 40C discharge the flight time would be ridiculously short. The Sundowner, as slippery as it is is not a hot liner. You can't get away with 160A climb for 5 seconds then dive at closed throttle. Rather if you want to go fast, your going to need to keep that throttle forward.

Nah, I would rather make my power with volts. It's way more efficient, and in the long run a lot easier on your components.

Now for people employing the amps vs volts equation, thats fine. If it works for you so be it. It's just not the route I have chosen to follow.

Tommy D

(and don't get me started on those Turnigy Nano 90C discharge packs!)

Tommy D
We all do things different i guess i'm happy with my setup and 4 minutes flying is just fine for me
good luck with your build tommyd

(and don't get me started on those Turnigy Nano 90C discharge packs!) you can start a thread if you want
BTW: i think youare talking about 90c burst rate, i use Turnigy Nano in some application and all i can say GREAT LIPOS But if you want real perfonmance Hyperion or Polyquest is the only way to go
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racebelly View Post
I'm running a Scorpion 4025-12, ICE 100, 8s 5000 & 5 HS-625MG servos. I'm thinking of an external BEC.

Do you guys think the built BEC on the ICE is good for 5 standard sized servos? Or, should get the Castle 10Amp?

-Mark
Hi i never use the built in BEC having an external BEC is good insurance
Cheers
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 07:14 PM
Carbon fiber is our friend
Steve C's Avatar
United States, CA, Lodi
Joined Feb 2001
4,083 Posts
Wow, you guys really got this thread moving again!

Winding motors certainly isn't for everyone. I've always liked having stuff that nobody else has and I can't ever leave anything alone, so taking a cheap Turnigy motor and making something decent out of it is fun for me.

Scorpion HK and Hyperion HS seem to be the same. You can find the 4035 in both flavors with the same kv's. I recommend 400 for 10s - 500 for 8s - 630 for 6s. There's only a couple of winds and they switch from 8 poles to 10 poles to change kv's. I think they are great motors.

I still don't trust any BEC that runs on the motor battery, though I do use them on some of the smaller planes. I've had power go out to the controller several times for different reasons and if you have a separate rx batt, you can still find out what went wrong rather than sifting through twisted carnage!

Steve C
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
Wow, you guys really got this thread moving again!

Winding motors certainly isn't for everyone. I've always liked having stuff that nobody else has and I can't ever leave anything alone, so taking a cheap Turnigy motor and making something decent out of it is fun for me.

Scorpion HK and Hyperion HS seem to be the same. You can find the 4035 in both flavors with the same kv's. I recommend 400 for 10s - 500 for 8s - 630 for 6s. There's only a couple of winds and they switch from 8 poles to 10 poles to change kv's. I think they are great motors.

I still don't trust any BEC that runs on the motor battery, though I do use them on some of the smaller planes. I've had power go out to the controller several times for different reasons and if you have a separate rx batt, you can still find out what went wrong rather than sifting through twisted carnage!

Steve C
yep we have all seen the results of your rewound motor in the kelly one of the fastest and great sounding rc plane i have ever heard
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 08:31 PM
Hooper, full throttle!
Tommy D's Avatar
USA, NY, East Islip
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
Wow, you guys really got this thread moving again!
Blame it on us newbies

With nothing to do today but watch the blizzard from inside my home I thoght I would try something.

P-Calc predicted some pretty low Amp numbers for the E-Flite Power 46 on 6S. So I sought to confirm those numbers in the flesh. Boy, what I ever disappointed!

On a 11x8.5E I got 2022W for a cost of 87A while the pack fell to 23.1V . RPM was Fair at 13,050 <105MPH> and my emeter recorded the system performance @ 70%. Motor ran for about 5 seconds, and yes it did get warm.

My smallest Prop I would consider was a 10x10E so I gave that a shot next. I didn't think it would drop much in the amp department and the setup didn't disappoint.

1924W for a cost of 82.5A and pack voltage fell to 23.3 . RPM was good @ 13,320 <126MPH> However the EMeter calculated the efficiency even lower @ 64%.

So for me, Running the Power 46 on 6S is not an option in the Sundowner.

Steve

Regarding the HK series of motors. Other then reversing the shaft and grinding a flat spot on the shaft for a set screw, no surprises on the install?

Looking at that 500 KV for 8S Scorpion Calc Predicts 85A on a 12x10E and 106A o a 12x12E . From your experience does that sound about right to you?

I had thought about trying a 4025-12 on 8S and cutting a 12x12 down to and 11.5 (or so) by 12 to keep the pitch speed up and see if I can get the amps down some from the 78A predicted.

Tommy D
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 09:01 PM
Fill'er Up!
mattyhawk's Avatar
Oxnard, Ca
Joined Oct 2008
1,796 Posts
Ah, I see. Normal turnigys are good too, but I haven't seen any advertised at 50c, must be new.

Going well, just got a parkzone micro su-26xp to fly indoors. Fun little plane. Lucky you have gotten some fly time in, no time 4 me, traveling and only have my mpx Gemini but its been stormy. Maybe tomorrow.
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 09:13 PM
Fill'er Up!
mattyhawk's Avatar
Oxnard, Ca
Joined Oct 2008
1,796 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy D View Post
Blame it on us newbies

With nothing to do today but watch the blizzard from inside my home I thoght I would try something.

P-Calc predicted some pretty low Amp numbers for the E-Flite Power 46 on 6S. So I sought to confirm those numbers in the flesh. Boy, what I ever disappointed!

On a 11x8.5E I got 2022W for a cost of 87A while the pack fell to 23.1V . RPM was Fair at 13,050 <105MPH> and my emeter recorded the system performance @ 70%. Motor ran for about 5 seconds, and yes it did get warm.

My smallest Prop I would consider was a 10x10E so I gave that a shot next. I didn't think it would drop much in the amp department and the setup didn't disappoint.

1924W for a cost of 82.5A and pack voltage fell to 23.3 . RPM was good @ 13,320 <126MPH> However the EMeter calculated the efficiency even lower @ 64%.

So for me, Running the Power 46 on 6S is not an option in the Sundowner.

Sounds like you are doing some good homework. Sounds like you are on the right track. I like your methods on higher voltage over amps, but on the sundowner, it is a real balancing act, as the space in the battery tray is quite limited. Don't forget to keep battery size as part of the equation.

Oh, and I really don't consider the power series of motors as being high power motors, I think of them as turn key motors for the masses. Don't get me wrong, they are good motors, but I haven't been highly impressed, especially for the money spent.
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 09:22 PM
Fill'er Up!
mattyhawk's Avatar
Oxnard, Ca
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian_M View Post
Hi i never use the built in BEC having an external BEC is good insurance
Cheers
Adrian, I don't want to sound obnoxious or start any endless arguing, but I have always wondered what the worry about batteries blowing up in flight. I do understand the argument about separate batteries powering a BEC, heck, I run that in my Shoestring with a 2S lipo and 15A BEC. But honestly, when was the last time you saw a lipo light up in air? Even if you loose a cell, there is still enough voltage to keep the BEC powered up. Only time I see issues with batteries if you use them past their freshness expiration date.

I think the issue is more about redundancy, as the BEC is a single point of failure (that can happen), and it doesn't matter where the power is coming from.
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 10:30 PM
Carbon fiber is our friend
Steve C's Avatar
United States, CA, Lodi
Joined Feb 2001
4,083 Posts
Tommy, that sounds about right.

about rx power...

I went out to fly my hotliner a few weeks ago. When I throttled up for the 3rd climb, nothing happened. I came home tried it again and it didn't work. I plugged the Hyperion pack in to my balance charger and it wouldn't charge because something was way wrong. Next I cut the shrink off the pack and checked the cells one at a time. They were all fine. I plugged the pack back in to the speed control and everything worked. I went back out and flew the heck out of it. There were no more problems. I can't explain what happened, but if that plane had not had a 4c AAA rx pack in it, I would be sad now

I've had deans ultra plugs come unsoldered. When they get old, the female side gets oxidized and high resistance can make them really hot if there's enough battery behind it.

I over amped a pack once (sometimes planes pull more amps in the air) and it puffed up and the battery lead came unsoldered, which did cause a crash flying on BEC. If you pull over 100 amps, it's too risky.
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 11:40 PM
Fly Fast!
dbgood's Avatar
scotia ,NY
Joined Jul 2008
627 Posts
Sundowner 50

I now have a scorpion s4025-12 its bumped up to 470kv,its a 8cell 11x12,and a 12x12 it says max watts on my Ice100 is 1944,compared to 1515watts on the 46 with 5cell in it before.
so im about 400watts more than the Power 46.
Its not a hell of alot faster than the 46..
Do i need a higher kv motor on it with a 8cell?
It says on scorpion motor calc im at 138mph pitch speed,so maybe im getting 115 mph or so?
Im thinking i need at least 3000watts to get my Sundowner
goin,over 125mph or so.
Is this true i only have 2000watts and i need 3000watts instead?
Thanks
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Last edited by dbgood; Dec 26, 2010 at 11:58 PM.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyhawk View Post
Adrian, I don't want to sound obnoxious or start any endless arguing, but I have always wondered what the worry about batteries blowing up in flight. I do understand the argument about separate batteries powering a BEC, heck, I run that in my Shoestring with a 2S lipo and 15A BEC. But honestly, when was the last time you saw a lipo light up in air? Even if you loose a cell, there is still enough voltage to keep the BEC powered up. Only time I see issues with batteries if you use them past their freshness expiration date.

I think the issue is more about redundancy, as the BEC is a single point of failure (that can happen), and it doesn't matter where the power is coming from.
it's just a matter of prsonal choice really m8
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbgood View Post
I now have a scorpion s4025-12 its bumped up to 470kv,its a 8cell 11x12,and a 12x12 it says max watts on my Ice100 is 1944,compared to 1515watts on the 46 with 5cell in it before.
so im about 400watts more than the Power 46.
Its not a hell of alot faster than the 46..
Do i need a higher kv motor on it with a 8cell?
It says on scorpion motor calc im at 138mph pitch speed,so maybe im getting 115 mph or so?
Im thinking i need at least 3000watts to get my Sundowner
goin,over 125mph or so.
Is this true i only have 2000watts and i need 3000watts instead?
Thanks
Hi watts don't automaticly mean more speed i was running Hyperion HS-4025-0890/ 890Kv motor in my Sundowner on 6s it was making around 2900watts + static on the Eagle tree with an 11 x 5.5 prop
now i run HS-4035-0630/ 630kv on 6s making 2634watts of power on a 12 x 10 prop and i'm going about 25 kmh faster at level flight best speed so far level flight is 209kmh (129.87 Mph)
The only reason i run 6s is that i have 15+ 6s lipos and i don't really want to buy anymore
If i was starting from scratch i would go Steve C way for sure, 10S would be the go
Cheers
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 03:39 PM
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Hi Guys I have the HS-4025-0890 motor here that i dont use any more it can go to a good home if anyone wants it is still running strong it's got custom made saft 8mm stepped down to 6mm the magnets picked up on the armature for some reason
If anyone wants it let me know,you just pay for the freight

Ps:LOL didn't take long to get 3 private msgs from people on the forum so no private msgs at this stage i want this motor to go to one of the people that's been following and giving positive imput on this thread so if you have any questions post them on here

Steve c would you be interested in doing me a 12 x 9 wood prop? if so how much would you want to do it ?
Cheers
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