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Old Dec 16, 2012, 04:21 PM
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still4given's Avatar
Victorville, CA
Joined Jun 2006
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Originally Posted by mattyhawk View Post
I don't think you will be disappointed. The T600 880kv I mod'd to 475kv was consuming 3400W on 10S, this T700 480kv is consuming almost 3200W on the same batts and prop. Big difference is the T700 is heavier (because it is longer) and it gets midly warm at 92A where the T600 was moderately warm to almost hot at 92A and therefore was at its limit. The T700 is not at its limit and could handle a bit more pitch for more speed.

The interesting thing about the T600 880kv mod'd was running was doing the same as the 4035 Scorpion others were using on 10S with the same speed. I expect the T700 to perform as well or better than the Scorpion 4035, but with a weight penalty. The thing on the T700, the price is oh so nice!

I never suggested my T600 motor setup because it was not turn key and most people would be turned off to moding a new motor. The T700 on the other hand is out of the box ready for some power at a low price.

EDIT:

I found that the T700 is the Align 750MX Brushless Motor. They come in 450KV and 530kv flavors. they say they can handle 100A continuous / 165A peak or up to 4500W on 12s. I wonder if the HK versions can do it.
Is the shaft 6mm all the way through the motor? I noticed in a previous post that someone ordered an 8mm shaft to use. I know the HK- 4035-560 has an 8mm shaft.

Thanks, Terry
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by still4given View Post
Is the shaft 6mm all the way through the motor? I noticed in a previous post that someone ordered an 8mm shaft to use. I know the HK- 4035-560 has an 8mm shaft.

Thanks, Terry
It tapers from 8mm to 6mm. I see no reason an 8mm all the way through could be used, but I am very confident the Align version of the shaft could be used to replace the HK version.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:40 AM
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Victorville, CA
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Originally Posted by mattyhawk View Post
It tapers from 8mm to 6mm. I see no reason an 8mm all the way through could be used, but I am very confident the Align version of the shaft could be used to replace the HK version.
The reason for using a new shaft is so the motor can be reversed and use a star mount on the rear of the motor. I did this with my HK 4035-560 using an S-4035 shaft.

http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/pro...roducts_id=725

If this shaft will fit in the Turnigy, it will instantly transform it into an airplane motor. You can't beat $8 for a hardened shaft with flats already installed including a collet. You have to buy an 8mm prop adapter but even that improves this since the shaft is thicker, it is less likely to bend from prop strikes and the like.

http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/pro...roducts_id=568

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyhawk View Post
:

I found that the T700 is the Align 750MX Brushless Motor. They come in 450KV and 530kv flavors. they say they can handle 100A continuous / 165A peak or up to 4500W on 12s. I wonder if the HK versions can do it.
I looked at the Align and while it looks similar, the dimensions are different. Where did you get the information that they were the same motor?


Blessings, Terry
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by still4given View Post
The reason for using a new shaft is so the motor can be reversed and use a star mount on the rear of the motor. I did this with my HK 4035-560 using an S-4035 shaft.

http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/pro...roducts_id=725

If this shaft will fit in the Turnigy, it will instantly transform it into an airplane motor.
I totally understand wanting to reverse the shaft. But using the star mount? I'm not sure I understand what you mean, do you mean this as the star mount:

http://www.valuehobby.com/media/cata...sory-140_9.jpg

I didn't need to reverse the shaft, in fact I had to cut some length from the shaft to get the prop adapter there it needed to be. I mounted my motor behind the X-mount on my airframe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by still4given View Post
You can't beat $8 for a hardened shaft with flats already installed including a collet. You have to buy an 8mm prop adapter but even that improves this since the shaft is thicker, it is less likely to bend from prop strikes and the like.

http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/pro...roducts_id=568
I agree. At these power levels, an 8mm shaft would work really well for insurance. I will probably looking into it myself.


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Originally Posted by still4given View Post
I looked at the Align and while it looks similar, the dimensions are different. Where did you get the information that they were the same motor?


Blessings, Terry

I guess it is important to say I am speculating, but I feel very confident on this. I do not have information from the manuafacturer or anything. I put it together from when I had the HK T700 apart and my experience with the T600.

Similarities:
1. Build quality is the same as the T600, which the dimensions are similar. The T600 was speculated to be from Align.
2. Design is very close, only the cooling holes in the back case are different size and the slight variance in the mounting cage in the front.
3. Shaft sizing. Shaft is mounted the same and same dimentions. Difference is the Align has a hollow shaft.
4. Same stator and mag count.
5. Weight is 4g from each other.
6. Kv's are very close. When I measured my T700 480kv and plugged numbers into motorcalc, it is actually more like 450-460kv real kv.

I guess take it as you will. Sorry if I made it sound like I was an authority on this motor. I think I mis-wrote by saying "the T700 is the Align 750MX Brushless Motor". I wish to redact my statement for lack of concrete evidence.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 01:51 PM
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Victorville, CA
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Originally Posted by mattyhawk View Post
I totally understand wanting to reverse the shaft. But using the star mount? I'm not sure I understand what you mean, do you mean this as the star mount:

http://www.valuehobby.com/media/cata...sory-140_9.jpg

I didn't need to reverse the shaft, in fact I had to cut some length from the shaft to get the prop adapter there it needed to be. I mounted my motor behind the X-mount on my airframe.




I agree. At these power levels, an 8mm shaft would work really well for insurance. I will probably looking into it myself.





I guess it is important to say I am speculating, but I feel very confident on this. I do not have information from the manuafacturer or anything. I put it together from when I had the HK T700 apart and my experience with the T600.

Similarities:
1. Build quality is the same as the T600, which the dimensions are similar. The T600 was speculated to be from Align.
2. Design is very close, only the cooling holes in the back case are different size and the slight variance in the mounting cage in the front.
3. Shaft sizing. Shaft is mounted the same and same dimentions. Difference is the Align has a hollow shaft.
4. Same stator and mag count.
5. Weight is 4g from each other.
6. Kv's are very close. When I measured my T700 480kv and plugged numbers into motorcalc, it is actually more like 450-460kv real kv.

I guess take it as you will. Sorry if I made it sound like I was an authority on this motor. I think I mis-wrote by saying "the T700 is the Align 750MX Brushless Motor". I wish to redact my statement for lack of concrete evidence.
Hey Matty,

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes that is the mount I was referring to. I know that you can mount it the way that you did however, that makes for some pretty long spacing rods and they end up very close to the motor bell. it only takes a very slight bump to tilt the motor enough to rub on the standoffs. Don' ask me how I know. By using the Scorpion 8mm shaft, you have very short standoffs and the shaft that is sticking out of the front of the motor is very short, adding to the strength and reducing the chance of bending the shaft. It will look like the S-4025 motors do.

I just finished reading this entire thread. Wow, a lot to read. To be honest, I race warbirds and am not really interested in a Sundowner, but since they use about the same gear I am using, it was a very interesting read. We just changed the rules for our warbird racing last year, so now electric power is allowed. A few of us have jumped in and are experimenting. I have been using an HK4035-560 with a Turnigy Dlux 120A ESC on 8S in an E-flite Platinum Series P-51B Mustang 32e ARF. It does about 160mph and is very completive.

The Turnigy HeliDrive SK3 Competition Series - 4962-560kv looks like it would be very close to the Scorpion I am using for about half the cost. Not to mention that Scorpion discontinued the HK4035-560. Since race planes often have a short life expectancy, finding a less expensive alternate is very attractive.

Blessings, Terry
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by still4given View Post
Hey Matty,

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes that is the mount I was referring to. I know that you can mount it the way that you did however, that makes for some pretty long spacing rods and they end up very close to the motor bell. it only takes a very slight bump to tilt the motor enough to rub on the standoffs. Don' ask me how I know. By using the Scorpion 8mm shaft, you have very short standoffs and the shaft that is sticking out of the front of the motor is very short, adding to the strength and reducing the chance of bending the shaft. It will look like the S-4025 motors do.
I just don't know how you are going to mount it to the t700 without drilling the back side of the can. Also, I have never had issues with standoffs and motors touching from flex mounting the motor on the inside of the x-mount, it would be interesting to see your experience.

My problem with mounting on the outside of the X is the possibility of more stress on the stator tube and front bearing. I have experienced more flex in the prop when mounting big motors on the outside of x-mounts. I have never had a failure from outside mounting with exception of a Turnigy 50-65 380kv on 2200W, but after replacing the bearing it is going strong. I was a bit nervous doing it on my Sundowner with a 3000W+ motor and a larger prop with big pitch.

I suspect, both ways are inferior when compared to mounting the motor with a secondary bearing opposide of the mount to support the stator tube. Then the force is on the mount 100% and not on the motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by still4given View Post

I just finished reading this entire thread. Wow, a lot to read. To be honest, I race warbirds and am not really interested in a Sundowner, but since they use about the same gear I am using, it was a very interesting read. We just changed the rules for our warbird racing last year, so now electric power is allowed. A few of us have jumped in and are experimenting. I have been using an HK4035-560 with a Turnigy Dlux 120A ESC on 8S in an E-flite Platinum Series P-51B Mustang 32e ARF. It does about 160mph and is very completive.

The Turnigy HeliDrive SK3 Competition Series - 4962-560kv looks like it would be very close to the Scorpion I am using for about half the cost. Not to mention that Scorpion discontinued the HK4035-560. Since race planes often have a short life expectancy, finding a less expensive alternate is very attractive.

Blessings, Terry
Hope it goes well for you. The motors HK is coming out with is killer for the price. With a rewind, I suspect they would knock the socks off the competition. Let us know how it goes if you run it.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:24 PM
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Victorville, CA
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Originally Posted by mattyhawk View Post
I just don't know how you are going to mount it to the t700 without drilling the back side of the can. Also, I have never had issues with standoffs and motors touching from flex mounting the motor on the inside of the x-mount, it would be interesting to see your experience.

My problem with mounting on the outside of the X is the possibility of more stress on the stator tube and front bearing. I have experienced more flex in the prop when mounting big motors on the outside of x-mounts. I have never had a failure from outside mounting with exception of a Turnigy 50-65 380kv on 2200W, but after replacing the bearing it is going strong. I was a bit nervous doing it on my Sundowner with a 3000W+ motor and a larger prop with big pitch.

I suspect, both ways are inferior when compared to mounting the motor with a secondary bearing opposide of the mount to support the stator tube. Then the force is on the mount 100% and not on the motor.



Hope it goes well for you. The motors HK is coming out with is killer for the price. With a rewind, I suspect they would knock the socks off the competition. Let us know how it goes if you run it.
Hi Matty,

When you install the Aero motor shaft, you reverse the motor so the X-mount is toward the firewall. You actually only need the standoffs to adjust the finish location of the thrust washer. If, as in the case of my planes, you have to relocate the firewall anyway, you can simply set the firewall at the correct distance and mount the X-brace directly on the firewall.You are probably correct about more flex with the motor mounted in front of the X-brace but you can install in a slimmer cowl if you don't have that X-brace at the front of the motor. Maybe that is not an issue in the Sundowner, but it is in the P-51B.

The price of the Turnigy is tempting. For less than $80 I may just pop on one.

Blessings, Terry
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:07 PM
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I don't know how i missed this thread in the search, but since this is the proper place, i'll put my other post here.

I am getting ready to order a Sundowner 50. I will be running electric, i do not do gas. I am shooting for 100mph+ level flight, 120-130 topend or so. I really don't want to get it much higher than 125, because the airfield i fly at isn't massive.

I don't really know what the math is, or what to use to keep it within those parameters for a power system. I'd like to keep it on a 6s or 8s if that's possible. 6s would be more preferable, but 8s will do if i have to.

I've used motocalc a bit, but some of what i input was guesswork on the airframe since i don't have it here. What i tried for motors were Scorpion 4025-10, 4025-12, and 4020-10. The ESC i put in was a CC 75 Ice. And 8s batts. The problem I'm having tho, is the terrible flight times. Am i expecting too much out of a speedy setup like this wanting 5 minutes? I kinda wanted to try out a Scorpion motor, since i don't have one yet, but if something else would be better i'm very open to suggestion.

Basically i'm looking for a 5 min flight time, at 110-120mph on this airframe. Obviously it wouldn't be WOT for 5 minutes If that's not possible let me know

Thanks in advance for any help
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:12 PM
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United States, CA, Lodi
Joined Feb 2001
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Make sure you get the HK or HKIII motor, not the S series. The 650kv version is about right for 6s. You'll have a choice of props from 11 to 13 inches that can make your flight times long or short and fast. Use at least a 100 amp esc. I'd keep it light for your small field, so maybe a 4000 mah pack.

I have a jet that most fly on 6s 5000 packs. I fly mine on 12s 2650's. Weight wise, it's nearly the same, but mine only pulls 60 amps and some pull as much as 150 on 6s. They're burning up a lot more watts, but they are not as efficient. It's something to think about.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
I have a jet that most fly on 6s 5000 packs. I fly mine on 12s 2650's. Weight wise, it's nearly the same, but mine only pulls 60 amps and some pull as much as 150 on 6s. They're burning up a lot more watts, but they are not as efficient. It's something to think about.
Well, i'm not married to the idea of a 6s or 8s setup, or a scorpion motor for that matter. If you have a better setup for achieveing 110mph and a longer flight time, i'd be all for it. The longer flight time i can get out of it, the better. I'm just after the best setup possible for this frame, keeping a 120mph-ish limit. Since you have one you know better than me what fits and what doesn't in there I'm not very experienced in power setups as you can probably tell, most of what i came up with on my own was just guesswork with not much concrete reasoning lol. I'm not on an ultratight budget, but i don't want to replace an expensive setup later when i'm not happy with it, with an even more expensive setup. I'd rather do it right the first time. Also, the field isn't terribly small, i just meant it doesn't really have the room to make a 180mph hotliner lol. I'm being a bit conservative with 120mph i think, but i'd like to err on the side of caution.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:51 PM
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Hi Danov,
I have the 4025-10 in my Sundowner 50 and I use 6s 5000-6000mAh batts. It's a pretty versatile setup - with a 12x10 I can hover the dang thing, or zip along at 85-90mph for 7 or 8 minutes, and with a 12x12 I get pretty close to 100mph (no hovering though).
There are a number of high powered high volt setups listed in this thread, some of which absolutely scream, But, it takes a whole lotta juice to move a big ol plane like the SD50 though the air at anything more than about 110mph. Like Steve mentioned, 650kv sounds pretty good for 6s, or you can always go with more volts, less mAh, and a lower kv motor.
Best,
Josh
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 04:45 PM
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Yeah, i have been looking at some lower KV motors. If motocalc is to be believed, the 4025-16, on a 10s setup seems to be hitting in around 105-115mph on most appropriate prop setups and 6-9 minute flight times. That's provided i can use a 5000mah 10s in it. The only 2 problems i have with this are that i don't know how accurate motocalc really is, and i can't seem to find a 4025-16 in the HK series. It seems it's only available in the S series, which Steve told me to avoid.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:38 PM
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Yeah, i have been looking at some lower KV motors. If motocalc is to be believed, the 4025-16, on a 10s setup seems to be hitting in around 105-115mph on most appropriate prop setups and 6-9 minute flight times. That's provided i can use a 5000mah 10s in it. The only 2 problems i have with this are that i don't know how accurate motocalc really is, and i can't seem to find a 4025-16 in the HK series. It seems it's only available in the S series, which Steve told me to avoid.
Hi there this thread is still going strong I have used both the HS and S series in my SD 50 with great results The S series i used is S-4035-460KV on 10s 12x12 prop
SteveC gave me allot of good advice, I'm not sure why he said not to use the S
The S-4025 is a strait bolt on job, the S-4035 is a little longer so the 4 alloy spacers supplied with the plane will need to be shortened by 10mm,
If you use the HK series you will have to reverse the shaft
I also used the HK-4035-400 in my SD and didn't see any difference in speed between the two
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 07:57 AM
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Nice to see this thread is still going strong!

I've been away from the hobby and had limited flying last season, didn't even get to fly my SD50. Maybe this year
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 10:00 AM
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I thought the S series were rated for lower power, but it's not that much of a difference. Maybe that was bad advise.
Most of the Powercroco rewinds are HK series, but he did do some S series as well, so disregard what I said and use whichever one that's closest on kv.
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