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Old Apr 22, 2012, 05:11 PM
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Elec 1800's Avatar
corona, ca
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Hello fellas, i have a question regarding the set ups. I have a Nemesis 52 that i just picked up and plan of making it electric. I picked up a Hyperion 4035-500kv motor. Not to sure what setup if either 10s or 12s also what prop size to use. Also what servos are yall using and esc



http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/hs/hs-spec.pdf

Thanks
Mike
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 10:12 AM
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Oxnard, Ca
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Hey Elec,

Since I do not have the Nemesis, I will give you information as if you were flying a Sundowner, which can be considered comparable.

The 500kv motor is too much on 12S and a bit much on 10S. you are probably in the 8S to 10S realm, depends on batteries.

On 10S and a 12x12 APCE, you are at 130A peak, but it can handle it, Hyperions are excellent motors, just keep airflow on it.That will theoretically give 13lbs of thrust and pitch speed (PS) of 175mph (great if you are willing to buy the batteries and ESC to handle it). The next electric prop available is an APCE 12x10. This will give about 12lbs of thrust at about 150mph PS. You could try the APCe 11x10, but it is only good for about 9.5lbs of thrust and 155mph PS.

For 8S, an APCe 12x12 will give 90A peak with 7lbs thrust and 146mph PS. Just for kicks, an APC 12.5x13 will give 107A with 8lbs of thrust and 154mph PS.

Remember, the more thrust you have, the more drag you can overcome an hit the Theoretical pitch speed. If you don't have the thrust to overcome drag, you won't come close to pitch speed. If you have too much thrust and not enough pitch speed, you will accellerate quickly, but hit a wall against the limit of pitch speed. Getting max possible high speed is a balancing act and takes some props to figure out the best combo. That also includes power band. If you run a square prop (pitch speed and diameter are the same or close to it), you will have loads of thrust at WOT, but if you want to just cruise around the sky, it will be hard to slow it down and if you do, you can't just punch out. Power ramps up with heavy pitch props.

Good luck!
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 10:26 AM
Flying 2 Fight Cancer
Elec 1800's Avatar
corona, ca
Joined Feb 2011
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Wow mattyhawk, thank u very much for all this helpful info. Much appreciated. What brand of batteries would u recommend as well as mah rating and c rating for either the 8s or 10s setup but of course nothing that will break the wallet

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Originally Posted by mattyhawk View Post
Hey Elec,

Since I do not have the Nemesis, I will give you information as if you were flying a Sundowner, which can be considered comparable.

The 500kv motor is too much on 12S and a bit much on 10S. you are probably in the 8S to 10S realm, depends on batteries.

On 10S and a 12x12 APCE, you are at 130A peak, but it can handle it, Hyperions are excellent motors, just keep airflow on it.That will theoretically give 13lbs of thrust and pitch speed (PS) of 175mph (great if you are willing to buy the batteries and ESC to handle it). The next electric prop available is an APCE 12x10. This will give about 12lbs of thrust at about 150mph PS. You could try the APCe 11x10, but it is only good for about 9.5lbs of thrust and 155mph PS.

For 8S, an APCe 12x12 will give 90A peak with 7lbs thrust and 146mph PS. Just for kicks, an APC 12.5x13 will give 107A with 8lbs of thrust and 154mph PS.

Remember, the more thrust you have, the more drag you can overcome an hit the Theoretical pitch speed. If you don't have the thrust to overcome drag, you won't come close to pitch speed. If you have too much thrust and not enough pitch speed, you will accellerate quickly, but hit a wall against the limit of pitch speed. Getting max possible high speed is a balancing act and takes some props to figure out the best combo. That also includes power band. If you run a square prop (pitch speed and diameter are the same or close to it), you will have loads of thrust at WOT, but if you want to just cruise around the sky, it will be hard to slow it down and if you do, you can't just punch out. Power ramps up with heavy pitch props.

Good luck!
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 12:34 PM
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Hey, glad to help,

Batteries are pretty easy. With high output power systems, the higher amps the battery can supply CONSTANT (not burst), the higher the volts it can sustain and volts = rpms, which does work to produce thrust and speed.

I like the Turnigy, Nano-techs, GensAce and Skylipo batteries. Unfortunately I do not know what battery size will fit in the Nemesis, you will need to check on that. Let assume it can take 2 x 5000mah 30C batteries.

If you were going to do the 8S setup, then some 5000mah 25C batts would be good (that would give 125A contant) or some 4000mah 30C (120A Constant).

If you were going 10S on a 12x12 prop, 5000mah 30C (150A) or 4000mah 40C (160A). 12x10 prop 5000mah 25C or 4000mah 35C.

Also, I noticed I forgot to put down amps on the 10S setups.
12x12 130A
12x10 111A
11x10 87A
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elec 1800 View Post
Hello fellas, i have a question regarding the set ups. I have a Nemesis 52 that i just picked up and plan of making it electric. I picked up a Hyperion 4035-500kv motor. Not to sure what setup if either 10s or 12s also what prop size to use. Also what servos are yall using and esc



http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/hs/hs-spec.pdf

Thanks
Mike
is this the world model Nemesis 52?
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 06:51 PM
Flying 2 Fight Cancer
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corona, ca
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is this the world model Nemesis 52?
yes sir it is
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 09:59 PM
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The numbers, experience and expertise that you fellas in this thread have contributed has been very helpful to me as well. I realize I have learned a ton hanging around in here!


With regards to C-rating on batteries, I am also using a variety of nanotech batteries ranging from 25/50c batteries, to 45/90c batteries. So far I have had great performance out of them but have not really run any sort of scientific tests on them (despite being able to moonitor a number of battery metrics with the Duo3 charger).

The one thing that is oobvious to me when I started using them was that the higher the C rating the cooler the battery remained throughout the flight. As I rarely log data, I am unsure if I visually see much of a difference in c ratings.

Out of curiousity, in the example above with 5000mah batteries, how much faster would one go when changing from 25c to 30c?
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bsbauman View Post
The numbers, experience and expertise that you fellas in this thread have contributed has been very helpful to me as well. I realize I have learned a ton hanging around in here!


With regards to C-rating on batteries, I am also using a variety of nanotech batteries ranging from 25/50c batteries, to 45/90c batteries. So far I have had great performance out of them but have not really run any sort of scientific tests on them (despite being able to moonitor a number of battery metrics with the Duo3 charger).

The one thing that is oobvious to me when I started using them was that the higher the C rating the cooler the battery remained throughout the flight. As I rarely log data, I am unsure if I visually see much of a difference in c ratings.

Out of curiousity, in the example above with 5000mah batteries, how much faster would one go when changing from 25c to 30c?

5000mAh 25 = 100 amp continuous
5000mAh 30c = 150amp continuous

so yes there is a difference,lipos will run cooler and less stress on them
I only use 35/70c lipos now
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:43 AM
"The Judge"
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5000mAh 25c = 125 amp continuous
5000mAh 30c = 150amp continuous

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Old Apr 24, 2012, 10:28 AM
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I need to put my wattmeter on a few planes to be sure I am not stressing my ESC's.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Oxnard, Ca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsbauman View Post
...

Out of curiousity, in the example above with 5000mah batteries, how much faster would one go when changing from 25c to 30c?
In normal discharge conditions, it is not about how much faster a higher C rating will discharge, but how much more voltage they will hold based on C rating.

Consider Ohms law and some battery specific definitions. Current is flow of electrons through a medium. Resisance is the opposition of flow through a medium. Voltage is the electical potential of flow. This is often described as a system of water pipes and the interaction within a waterpipe "circuit". Voltage is the pressure in the pipes, current is the size of the pipe to allow X amount of water through and Resistance is the size restrictions in the pipe (like going from 1" to 3/4" pipe).

Also, amp hours (or milliamp hours) is the measure of capacity to store electrical energy in chemical form. More reactive substrates in the battery, the more capacity. C rating is an arbitrary number set by manufacturers based on amp discharge over time and when discharging can be thought of as current flow out based on the amount of restrictiveness of the "pipes" coming out of the battery. A higher C rating battery has larger "pipes" coming out of the cells than a smaller C rating, allowing for more flow of electrons from capacity.

Let's say we have at a given voltage for two separate batteries, one is a 25C continuous and the other is a 50C continuous. If you discharge both batteries and measure capacity after say 5 seconds, and the 25C is discharged at the limit, they will basically discharge at the same rate for a moment, but then thermal runaway begins and the 25C battery will begin to loose much of that capacity in heat. So as internal temp goes up, resistance goes up, voltage drops, and the endless cycle begins until either the 25C battery runs out of capacity and resistance drops to zero (dead cell) or the electrolyte gets so hot it begins to evaporate, burst the outside case and potentially explode. Battery internal resistance is highly dependant on temperature.

In the above situation, while the 25C battery is having a bad day and bursting at the seams, the 50C battery will continue to discharge at a higher rate and will be useable next time.

Bottom line, these battery examples will discharge at the same rate if the lower C rating is not pushed beyond its limit, but efficiency is the key. In other words, the measurement of how much voltage can be sustained at load for maximum voltage potential to the motor and highest performance at load.

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Old Apr 24, 2012, 12:28 PM
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As many times as I have read the "text book" definitions, it is so helpful to have a example like this to apply it to. Thanks for the info, I will be chewing on it and will report any unexpected findings after I get on the meter... packing up for SEFF, got the SD50 loaded and ready to hit the road tomorrow night!
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 01:18 PM
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have fun, i wish I could be there.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 01:30 PM
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I am going to try to get some nice SD 50 footage... Me and KingsFlyer are running identical SD50s with the same power systems, should make for some fun racing!
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 02:57 PM
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I am going to try to get some nice SD 50 footage... Me and KingsFlyer are running identical SD50s with the same power systems, should make for some fun racing!
Oooo, sounds like fun, but don't hit each other ok?
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