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Old Feb 13, 2008, 05:47 AM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Hitchin
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n-tropic
In all seriousness I have a lot more sympathy with this idea than Mike I think realises. I enjoy flying light racers very much and tend to get my best results when the conditions are light. Unfortunately, although we are also something of a brotherhood it's the rule book which sets our parameters so we'd have to change the rules to bring in a maximum weight stipulation. This could be done if the consensus was for it. However, as well as some sympathy for it I do have reservations about such a change. A few weeks ago I went to one of the Huddersfield clubs race meetings. I saw more models smashed there than at any other meeting I've been to but, and here's the rub, there were no mid-airs at all! The max wind was measured at 70mph gusting to 84 on the lip in the compression zone so maybe it was a 45mph day or something - it was certainly very gusty. Planes were being dashed against the slope in droves simply because they didn't have the mass to hold their line. OK this was an extreme scenario but I think it takes supreme piloting skills and a nice clean model to fly a lightweight in high winds. Most of us don't have either of those . I would fear that we'd end up canceling a lot of competitions simply because it's too windy for most people to manage without ballast.

Anyway I've meandered a bit off topic. Or maybe not. If it ends up taking a rule change to legalise Balisticover then a max weight restriction could be enacted at the same time.
This sounds a sensible way forward to me. Whilst I agree we can't ban ballast or agree a max weight this year, it's a definite possibility in 09. I'm sure we can come to a compromise weight (say 55 or 60oz) which doesn't render half the current field obsolete*. The thing I like about max weight restrictions is it's checkable on the hill in seconds, and it reduces the energy the model has to dissipate in a crash (good as these new materials may well be, I'm not certain they'd help in a head on between two 75oz wings in a 40mph wind!).

* - Except the Timinator of course, who'd have to build a whole new squadron...
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 06:11 AM
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skirmish's Avatar
West Yorkshire, UK
Joined Dec 2004
1,594 Posts
Do we know how easy it is to change the rules in EPP60? - We are an official BMFA event so I suspect that they (Silent Flight Technical Committee) would want to approve any changes?
While on the subject of rules I would still like to see the end of races finishing at the bottom of the hill!

Except the Timinator of course, who'd have to build a whole new squadron...

Late News - Timinator now in possession of super light Gulp SR...................
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 06:53 AM
You must die! I alone am best.
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Too late to change rules for 2008. proposals for 2009 must be submitted and discussed at sftc for inclusion onto agenda for October technical council and inclusion into rulebooks.

Andy - Who sometimes wishes he did not know these things......
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 07:09 AM
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West Yorkshire, UK
Joined Dec 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slopetrashuk
Too late to change rules for 2008. proposals for 2009 must be submitted and discussed at sftc for inclusion onto agenda for October technical council and inclusion into rulebooks.

Andy - Who sometimes wishes he did not know these things......
Huddersfield Rules are far more flexible...............
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 09:24 AM
The Predator
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Golden, Colorado
Joined Dec 2004
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OMG- I did not realize you guys got winds as INSAIN as us! That does require more weight and /or a very stable ship and pilot or both. I can see the need for weight there but, I'm not sure rule changes or no changes should be based on infrequent conditions, if they are indeed infrequent. I could not say??? That last day sounds like a day you KNOW before you launch what may well happen and though you all may crash more often with a lighter ship. I think you'll still get MAX air time with said lighter ship since it CAN crash and likely fly again. I learned to DS with a light ship for the same reasons.
Either way, I'm quite sure the BCH will meet all rule requirements now and in the future and once tested there as I have done here you'll be LOVE'IN it. I've been flying it ALOT and its like a triple ply covering job, adding a similar tortional rigidity, strength and weight easily in a single application onto cut foam goop or tape.
For me, I love the BCH on the bottom and one of the PP or Burrlys on the top, simply depending on what kind of ship I want, from floater to chrunchie/foamie.
Either way, race or no, I think you all will really enjoy using it. Have fun and know I'll be there if you need more or any support on it's use.
On a slightly off topic note, I've been working VERY HARD to design a ship just like the one you guys need only for a slightly different purpose. I'm on my 8th proto test ship in an on going design process to make a relatively light weight ship that can handle BIG AIR. I've had this goal since I started in on combat competitions years ago and gained LOTS more motivation as a DS pilot. Light ships ALWAYS survive crashes better and recover faster in combat too. This is HUGE to me, I'd WAY rather just relax and know I can make a mistake that will not END my flying day, or the life of a ship of mine! Sounds like you UK racers are in a similar boat. I honestly crash less if I can just relax and fly the ship as it needs to be flown VS all tensed up, cranking in some stupid knee jerk reaction at the first sign of trouble sending my ship into the turf.
Good news guys, My latest 48" and 60" flying wing protos have been VERY inspirering! I've been DSing in VERY rough (being in the Lee of the Rockies AND the TWISTED Lee of our DS hill all at the same time in 30-40MPH conditions. A PERFECT testing area for turbulence resistant ships. Past protos were OK but suffered tipstalls at slower speed and whip stalls in higher speeds on occasion when BIG turbulence rolled through. My lastest protos do not have those issues. I flew a 60" at 35ozs and a 48" at 20 OZS in said conditions and was VERY PLEASED just over the last 3 days. These are INSAIN light ships for their size and purpose. The 60" was just about keeping up (80+% speed) with a 50+ and 60OZS JW in a rough groove! I do think I was likely working a bit harder then the JW pilots but, they were almost 2X the weight!
I'm now cutting my cores out of a different kind of foam too! Very similar to EPP but finer pores, more rubbery, cheaper and tape sticks to the raw foam as does my covering in a MAJOR WAY! I built the 48" in 1/2 day and it makes me quite happy to fly it, yesterday was GREAT! I've designed these ships to use standard servos for a cheap durible, relyible, powerful control system. Oh' boy, this is turning into a shameless plug. I'll be sending out some intro. ships to some of my favorite testors by late next month if progress continues as it has; I'm confident at this point. Seeing is believing and I sure saw something I liked while flying my 48" in a MASSIVE variable groove yesterday, gusts over 40MPH and it weighed 20 OZS!
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 11:25 AM
You must die! I alone am best.
slopetrashuk's Avatar
The Naughty Corner..Find me tweeting @slopetrashuk
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Insane? - Gentle breeze that......Come fly with me on a big day!
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 11:47 AM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Hitchin
Joined Jan 2004
3,457 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by skirmish
Huddersfield Rules are far more flexible...............
(Cue dramatic movie trailer voice...)

"In Huddersfield, the only rule is there are no rules!"
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 11:55 AM
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skirmish's Avatar
West Yorkshire, UK
Joined Dec 2004
1,594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyB
(Cue dramatic movie trailer voice...)

"In Huddersfield, the only rule is there are no rules!"
comments like that could give us boys a bit of a reputation.

And don't forget. The boy Ellison is also a fully paid up member of us now
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 11:59 AM
You must die! I alone am best.
slopetrashuk's Avatar
The Naughty Corner..Find me tweeting @slopetrashuk
Joined Sep 2003
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I haven't thrown away my scrutineers hat yet!
Stand by for info on UK league soon.......
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 12:25 PM
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United Kingdom, Wales, Blaenau Ffestiniog
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I think all models should be made of green cheese - just in case..........
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 01:13 PM
The Predator
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Golden, Colorado
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Sounds like we're really making head way now. Let me know what ya all think!
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Old Feb 13, 2008, 05:25 PM
Its not IF... Its WHEN.
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West Yorks
Joined Feb 2007
1,109 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyB
(Cue dramatic movie trailer voice...)

"In Huddersfield, the only rule is there are no rules!"
Actually, Matt

There are only 2 rules:

(Revert to Huddersfield standard James Mason vocal style)

Rule 1. The slope sec is always right.

Rule 2. In case of disagreement Danny Boy, refer to rule 1.

Cheers

Tim

Who happens to be the slope rep for now.....
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Old Feb 15, 2008, 03:29 AM
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Joined Mar 2007
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i tried to use a similar product when we first went to this poxy epp pylon racing, it was immediately oulawed...
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Old Feb 15, 2008, 04:30 AM
Put in all the lead
n-tropic's Avatar
Devon, UK
Joined Dec 2003
1,590 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Garnett
i tried to use a similar product when we first went to this poxy epp pylon racing, it was immediately oulawed...
Thank you for your contribution Paul. Could you tell us exactly what the product you tried to use was?

When you say "outlawed" Do you mean that the league co-ordinator told you that it was not legal under the rules? The rules themeselves do not actually identify this kind of material specifically. Presumably it might have been a co-ordinator's judgement call? If so, can you tell me who was co-ordinator then and maybe PM me an e-mail address? It might be useful for me to talk with him. I will, however, need to know exactly what you used for this to be a useful conversation.

Steve
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Old Feb 15, 2008, 05:18 AM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Hitchin
Joined Jan 2004
3,457 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Predator
Sounds like we're really making head way now. Let me know what ya all think!
Quick question Karl... I am thinking of trying this on a Bee as a tester, can you tell me how well this adheres to moulded EPP, and whether you think this would be a fair test of the final resiliency vs. a cut foam wing? Thanks.

Matt
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