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View Poll Results: Have you had ESD problems with your LOGO 10?
Definitely - measures taken to end it reduced/ended occurances 7 20.59%
Maybe- frequent problems, unsure if it's RF interference or ESD 2 5.88%
Occasional glitching 5 14.71%
Rare or no glitching 20 58.82%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Dec 31, 2002, 01:32 AM
-Flight enthusiast_
gpeden's Avatar
Lake Louise, AB, Canada
Joined Feb 2000
3,567 Posts
ESD problems with your LOGO 10?

I was wondering what proportion of LOGO 10 owners have had electrostatic discharge problems with their heli's. Incidents have been reported by some. Is this a widespread problem?

Cheers!

Glen
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 03:05 AM
Registered User
Canada, BC, Surrey
Joined Jul 2002
273 Posts
Hi Again Glen.

Yup, Yup, Yup. Various combinations of Hacker-Kontronik-Schulze motor-ESC's. Tried graphite, grounding, moving stuff (as if you have all the real estate in the village to locate receivers, motor, ESC, UBC etc on a Logo 10) As per your advice I went over all connections, checked battery packs and even the phase of the moon.
Tightened the belt, loosened the belt. (BTW a nice tight belt can cost you as much as 25% of your flight time and hasten thr death of the tail rotor bearings and bushings.)
My hits were everything from a quick glitch to complete shutdown and restart as described by Champion. Finally decided that if I couldn't beat system I'd join it. Coupled the antenna lead to the boom and presto! No more hits. I can't recommend this to everybody, only the desperate.
Any piece of wire from the length of my dingus to infinity will serve as an antenna at our operating frequency and distance. The idea of a tuned antenna in this application is based on technological mythology. The wire is not the correct length, not straight, not orientated in the optimum direction. Otherwise it's great. Works most of the time.

Have a great New Year.

Lyle.
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 05:26 AM
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PierreVC's Avatar
Brussels, Belgium
Joined Feb 2002
75 Posts
Hi Glen,

Until know I had no problems, but only 24 flights.
I'm using the beat40-6-18 + fun600-15, no Ubec, rxbatt NMHi880mAh.

Most are recommending to put a lot of tension on the tail belt, but as I red in a French article regarding the logo10, the belts tension will increase due to the heat (friction) produced in flight.

So I've set my tension not to tight ( but enough tension so that you cannot press the belt together and that it will not hit the tailboom on the inside).

Happy New Year to all of you!

Pierre
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 11:08 AM
Registered User
Chicago, Illinois, USA
Joined Apr 2002
62 Posts
Hi Glen,

I have 5 helicopters with brushless motors.
And I have always advocated puting the motor fwd of the mainshaft
and the controller away from it, underneath the tail servo or
by rear legs.
I spent an entire year battling glitching with the piccolo
with astroflight motor and with hacker motor.

The magnetic field of the inductors in the controller plays
havoc with the receiver and motor.


See also John Kallas micro-heli web site (Hornet)
See also Albig placement of his ctrl in e-raptor.
See also Vkmaynard brushless setup for Corona.

-Art
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 11:14 AM
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gpeden's Avatar
Lake Louise, AB, Canada
Joined Feb 2000
3,567 Posts
Hi Pierre,

FWIW, I've also reported flight times reduced by 30+ seconds when the gear lash was just a little too tight. I'm only suggesting increasing tension a bit if there ia a problem. But how does one measure/communicate the state of tension on these belts? What one person thinks is OK might be described as loose by another. The belt loosens up a bit after the first flights. Also when one flies in winter weather, the boom shrinks from the cold so a little tighter belt tension (when warm) is required. If one hears it slapping on the side of the boom, it's probably a little loose.

Cheers!

Glen
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 01:08 PM
Registered User
Chicago
Joined May 2002
349 Posts
My ESD experience

I had severe glitching, even toasted a Kontronik Smile ESC, a Futaba 9ch PCM Rx, and a GWS 8 ch Rx from ESD.

I contacted Ralf at Mikado, sent him pics of my set-up, and based on his advice, moved the antenna wire as far from the tooth-belt pulley as possible, shortened ESC-motor wires, and tightened the belt. I had a horrible tail-wag problem I was trying to diagnose when all this glitching happened. The tail wag was ultimately diagnosed on the bench while waiting for parts. I had accidentally rotated the tail rotor servo link guide into the boom support while carrying the heli around, and that friction caused the wag.

I've not had any glitch of any kind since. I cannot tell for sure what fixed it. Either moving wires/tightening the belt, or fixing the wag which was likely causing the belt to slap the inside of the boom because of the severe changes in tail rotor drag torque.

One point to make, Ralf specifically recommended not using graphite spray, since it doesn't work and shortens the belt life.

I agree it's very difficult to describe how tight the belt is/should be. I thought the belt was very tight, until I held the main gear with one hand and applied torque to the tail rotor with the other, while observing the belt at the front pulley. It was suprising to me how little torque on the rotor would cause the belt to become loose on the slack side of the pulley. This is now my test for tighness, instead of pinching the belt behind the pulley.

Greg
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 01:50 PM
in a fog ...
Lost Horizon's Avatar
Victoria BC
Joined Dec 2002
471 Posts
I've got 60 flights on mine, and no glitches so far. I'm wondering if geography or climate may make it better/worse. I live on the west coast, it's quite humid all year round. Perhaps dry areas or seasons may be more prone to ESD.. Is there a time/location stat variable that is at play here, as well as the usual suspects? Tight to me is that balance between increased drag on the gear when you've pulled a little too far, and back off just a tad, being concerned with premature wear.... Hardly scientific, kinda like the twilight zone..
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 02:31 PM
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Joined Feb 2002
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"I live on the west coast, it's quite humid all year round. Perhaps dry areas or seasons may be more prone to ESD.."

I was wondering about this too. I live in South West England, and the climate in the UK (and North West Europe generally) is damper, like your West Coast. This ESD problem seems to be virtually unknown here, unless any other UK/European fliers out there know different ?
I am about ready to flight test my new Logo 10, though, so perhaps I shouldn't say too much yet !
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 04:55 PM
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gpeden's Avatar
Lake Louise, AB, Canada
Joined Feb 2000
3,567 Posts
FWIW, it was on an unusually humid day (low rain cloads closing in) that I observed an amazing sight on my first LOGO 20 (way back in 2000). A ball of brilliant white light, 2 inches or so in diameter drifted off the tail rotor shaft area at the very instant that a glitch happened. It was an amaizing sight and when I asked if anyone else saw it an older pilot siad "yes, but I wasn't going to mention it in case you thought I was crazy". It sounds like HE thought he was crazy

Cheers!

Glen
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 05:02 PM
Logo 10 Flyer
Skippy360's Avatar
Prince George,B.C.,Canada
Joined May 2001
285 Posts
Temp/Climate

I also have wondered about the climate affecting our heli's.

Ask any logging Helicopters ground crew that has touched the mainline before it hits the ground how much electricity a Helicopter can generate while in the air, especially on a nice crisp winter morning. It isnt very pleasent trust me if your still alive to remeber.

So I cant see our little heli's being any different. That being said you would think Glen would have more problems than most as he Fly's lots in a very Dry/Cold climate and dosent seem to have much problems with glitching

Scott
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 05:42 PM
in a fog ...
Lost Horizon's Avatar
Victoria BC
Joined Dec 2002
471 Posts
St Elmo's fire.. how many times have I watched my ADF go in circles, 300 nautical back from the nearest landmark.. It's amazing to watch... The props also spit off the fire like liquid syrup. But I digress
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 07:04 PM
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gpeden's Avatar
Lake Louise, AB, Canada
Joined Feb 2000
3,567 Posts
Hmmmm, could the rotor blades be generating static as well? That might also explain why the two times I remember my LOGO 10 glitching were when the heli was inverted with the antenna hanging in the direction of the blades (and battery as I mentioned in another thread)

"you would think Glen would have more problems than most as he Fly's lots in a very Dry/Cold climate"

Ya, sorry 'bout that Scott

Cheers!

Glen
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Old Dec 31, 2002, 08:23 PM
in a fog ...
Lost Horizon's Avatar
Victoria BC
Joined Dec 2002
471 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by gpeden

"you would think Glen would have more problems than most as he Fly's lots in a very Dry/Cold climate"

Ya, sorry 'bout that Scott

Ahh.. not to get too nerdy here, but a cold air mass is usually near 100% RH. It's when that same air mass warms up that the RH drops like a stone, hence the shocks are typically inside your house, (which takes the outside air mass and ups its temperature, and drastically lowering the RH) verses outside on the flagpole in the ice fog.. the only danger from the flagpole is sticking your tongue on it.. I doubt that you've gotten many shocks outside, even tho you might be wearing static wool undies, at -20.. Although glen lives at 5000 feet, in near vacuum conditions, so the electrons might migrate easier, a la vacuum tube, offsetting the high "apparent" RH outside... he might should be more susceptible .. all this physics talk is so confusing..

Happy new Year from the Pacific Northwest, all..
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Old Jan 01, 2003, 12:23 PM
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Chicago
Joined May 2002
349 Posts
ESD and humidity

FWIW, my problem happened on an August day in Chicago. The only place more humid on that day was the Amazon River Basin.

The rotor certainly can generate ESD, a big concern on full size helos.

I think the problem in the Logo is the Van-de-Graff generator tail belt, or at least it was in my case. Keeping the belt from rubbing the inside of the boom (proper belt tension), and keeping wiring away from the forward tooth-belt pulley should resolve any problems. (just one man's opinion here)

Greg
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Old Jan 01, 2003, 01:00 PM
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United States, FL, Cocoa
Joined Sep 2001
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Happy new year!

Nope, no glitching nor twitching at all with a regular FM receiver. My best heli yet.

On the other hand, my Piccolo and Eco glitch every now and then .

Chachin..
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