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Old Feb 09, 2008, 09:21 PM
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GP Big Stick 60 as a trainer

I want to build a large ARF that I will not tire of after I gain some experience past my beginner flying status. For this reason I am leaning against what I first thought about; the SIG Kadet LT 40 ARF. With such a large wingspan (70" with 900sq inch wing area), it seems like the Kadet would be underpowered with the recomended .46 engine and would not be fun to fly for long.

What do you all think about the GP Big Stick 60 ARF paired with The OS .91FX. I will be training at a club with a buddy box. The stick is the size I am looking for and the OS .91 does not weigh more than the .61 and I can re-use it for the Sig P51B mustang I want to get once I build up my flying skills. Will the aforementioned combo be stable enough to train on with an instructor?

Thanks in advance for any advice,
Jack in San Diego
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Old Feb 09, 2008, 10:17 PM
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Jacksonville Fla.
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go ask the instructor... I wouldn't want to train you on that,,to each his own..I really think you need to slow down and learn to walk before you run
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 12:05 AM
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The suggestion to ask the club instructors if they are willing to train on the Big Stick is a good one. While the Big Stik will slow down nicely is much more agile than a trainer and if you reduce the control throws so it is managable then it kinda wallows around at slow speed.
If you are prone to becoming "bored" quickly I would suggest spending the minimum amount possible to see if flying RC airplanes is something you even want to do. This requires a significant time investment as well as the money that is involved.
For what it is worth a 46 engine will haul the LT 40 around very nicely.
Trainer planes are capable of doing a lot more than they are given credit for, put one in the hands of a pattern flier and he will fly the pattern routine (it won't win a prize but it will still look cool), put one in the hands of a hot dog sport flier and he will fly inverted across the runway, put one in the hands of an instructor and he will teach someone how to fly and land.
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 12:06 AM
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Thanks Jetmech,

Any ARF airplanes you feel would be suitable and could deploy the OS .91FX? Also what is it about The Stick that makes it a bad choice for a beginner?
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 12:21 AM
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Thanks Chashint,
I was a model builder as a kid and built, flew and crashed several RC planes flying solo (windward, schoolgirl, Lil' T etc). That is why I want to do it right this time (I know I like the sport, just never got the hang of it). I was just hoping The Stick was forgiving enough to skip the full bore trainer. Clearly I was not sure, and thats why I am posting looking for sage advice. Thank you for taking the time to answer. Contacting the instructors at the club is a great idea, and I will do so. Tips on plane and engine combos are greatly appreciated.
Thanks again,
Jack in San Diego
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 09:18 AM
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United States, WY, Gillette
Joined Jan 2006
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definitly see what the instructors say first , but my recomendation is for the LT40 , i had one with a OS LA .40 , and the motor was worn , im mean real worn out , while the LA series of engines are good and reliable , they lack power , but it still pulled that LT40 around nicely , with a good .46 , the LT40 will have more than enough power , just my .02 cents.
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 11:31 AM
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The stick series aircraft work fine as trainers, and have been used for training since they first came out.

AMA's promotional movie, "Those Marvelous Miniatures" include a segment showing the Midwest Sweet Stick (the predecessor to all of the modern Sticks...) being used for training a beginner using the "snatch and grab" (pass the box) training method. I forgot when the movie was produced... late 1970's to early 1980's.
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 11:42 AM
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As for a .91 size trainer... There are large appropriate models... its unusual to build a trainer that large due to cost.

A .91 size plane will cost more to build because of the amount of wood needed... and takes twice as much covering material as a typical .40 size model.

Then the .91 size model needs higher power ( more expensive) servos... Higher capacity battery.... and burns much more fuel for the same flying time.

And... you are still just as likely to smash the plane in early lessons. You have almost double the investment and essentially no bennefit to your training by going to that large of a model.

.40 size is most common. There are a lot of .60 size trainers. The .60 size trainers can still use the "standard" servos.... its about a 20% to 30% higher initial cost than .40 size. The larger model can help some people and can be set up to handle wind better.

I wouldn't recommend going to .90 size for the trainer.
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 12:35 PM
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TOO EACH HIS OWN, I HAD 2 TRAINERS AND THEY WERE BORING TO ME, I SAY AGAIN THEY WERE BORING TO ME. I THINK MAYBE THATS WHY I CRASHED THEM SHORTLY AFTER FLYING. I MET A GUY WITH A BIG STIK 60 AND A OS 108 AND I REALLY LOVE TO SEE HIM FLY. HE SAID HE WOULD HELP ME BUT WE WOULD HAVE TO FLY WHEN ALL THE MORNING GUYS LEAVE. SO AT 1PM WE WOULD FLY IN THE WIND AND MY NEW 60 SIZE STIK WITH OS 91 WAS THE THE BEST PLANE FOR ME TO LEARN. AFTER 1 MONTH WE FLEW IN THE MORNING AND MY OLD INSTRUCTOR CAME OVER WITH THE BUBBY CORD AND TOLD ME I NEEDED TO GET A TRAINER WE COULD NOT TRAIN ON THE STIK. HA HA I SAID I'M FLYING ALONE NOW, TOOK OFF STRAIGT UP TO A HOOVER, FELL OUT TO A KNIFE EDGE AND DID 3 LAPS INVERTED 40 FEET FROM THE DECK. I THINK AT LOW RATES THE STIK IS MORE STABLE THAN A TRAINER, YOU CAN FLY THIS BIRD AT AN IDLE ALSO BIG SURFACES MAY SCARE INSTRUCTORS. IF YOU LEARN ON THIS TYPE OF BIRD YOU CAN GO ON TO ACROBATIS. BUT LOTS OF INSTRUCTORS INSIST THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BUY. IF YOU LIKE THE STIK BUY IT AND I'M SURE YOU WILL FIND THE SAME TYPE OF GUY I DID TO HELP YOU. NOW THE ULTRA STIK 40 IS ALSO A GREAT FLYER. 5 YEARS LATER I HAVE ABOUT 20 PLANES AND HAVE CRASHED ABOUT 30. I RECOMMEND YOU USE HIGHER TOURQE SERVOS WITH THAT 91 OS, I USE HITEC 475 MAYBE THEY'RE ABOUT 70oz. WHEN SLOW DOWN TO AN IDLE AND STILL FLYING AROUND IT PUT A NEW GUY AT EASE WITH A TRAINER YOU GOTTA MAKE A LOT OF STICK MOVEMENTS AND FLY AT A PRETTY GOOD SPEED ALL THE TIME. NOW I FLY QUICKIES (VIPER 500) WHEN I WANT SPEED AND I FLY 3D PLANES WHEN I WANT ACROBATICS/SLOW FLIGHT. BUT I'M SURE, JUST BUY LOOKING AT THE GUYS ON THE BUDDY BOX I STILL WILL CRASH A TRAINER CUZ IT LOOKS BORING TO ME. AND I STILL PREFER FLYING IN THE WIND AT 1PM WITHOUT THE MORNING COMMENTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejames7699
. . . 5 YEARS LATER I HAVE ABOUT 20 PLANES AND HAVE CRASHED ABOUT 30 . . .
First off, there's no need to scream! And secondly, averaging 6 crashes per year has to be some kind of record.

I trained on one of those "boring" trainers, advanced to other types of planes, and do enjoy a Stick-type plane. And, in 9 years of flying, I've only crashed 3 planes. Two were dumb-thumbed and the other was a death spiral due to servo tape coming undone.
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 03:13 AM
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Hi,

I am also a new pilot, soloed in November on a trainer.
I flew an Avistar which is a great aircraft and will do a lot thanks to its semi symmetrical airfoil.
I decided I was ready for something more advanced and bought myself a Big Stik 40 which I now realise was a mistake. I haven't crashed my Stik and I love flying it but it is a handful compared to my trainer. It is very responsive and easily gets ahead of me. I am now going to build another trainer and fly that a while longer to save my Stik.
That said the Stik is a great airframe and I actually find it slightly easier to land than my Avistar. Perhaps because I come in a bit faster and the plane is easy to control all the way to the ground.
Another new pilot learned on a Stik 60 set to low rates and does very well with it. So, if you have a good instructor it is possible to learn on a Stik if you have some simulator time and a bit of natural ability.
Don't be afraid of quickly becoming bored with a trainer though, they fly very well and can be made to do a lot - there is a youtube video of a guy hovering his Avistar up and down the runway. Don't have the link right now, hopefully some has.

Ray
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 09:57 AM
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United States, TX, Weatherford
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A GP Big Stik might do okay if, and its a big if, you have a "computer transmitter", one which you can use dual rates and lots of exponential. That will help detune the airplane to more gentle operation. StiKs have relatively large control surfaces and react very quickly to inputs. They are forgiving and easy to fly but with those large surfaces you can get into trouble very fast.

With dual rates you can restrain the travel of the control surfaces to prevent extreme moves and the exponential will detune the middle of the stick making it easier to fly. But if you have the old standard cheapo four channel transmitter, look out, you will have a hand full.

I would go for the Avistar, a pretty hot trainer. In fact, it is advertised as an Advanced Trainer. It is fast airplane, has a rounded wing with no flat bottom and will do a lot of stunts. And I recommend, you use a computer radio with it to slow it down.

I have a friend who is strapped for cash and is still flying his trainer. He does spins and the like all the time. He says he's gonna wear out his engine on that plane before he gets another one or fixes his StiK (He has an original Das Ugly Stik but he wrecked it).

Cheers,

Chip
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Old Feb 12, 2008, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkress
Thanks Chashint,
I was a model builder as a kid and built, flew and crashed several RC planes flying solo (windward, schoolgirl, Lil' T etc). That is why I want to do it right this time (I know I like the sport, just never got the hang of it). I was just hoping The Stick was forgiving enough to skip the full bore trainer. Clearly I was not sure, and thats why I am posting looking for sage advice. Thank you for taking the time to answer. Contacting the instructors at the club is a great idea, and I will do so. Tips on plane and engine combos are greatly appreciated.
Thanks again,
Jack in San Diego
This is good info, welcome back to the fold. Since you already know the ropes you just need to be refreshed.
How long has it been since you were a kid ? LOL You know it is harder for us more seasoned people to learn or relearn how to do it. But if you are still young it should come back pretty quickly.
If the instructors are willing to give it a try with the Big Stik go for it. If it turns out that it is to much to handle you can always get a Tower Trainer ($70) and the OS 46LA ($68) and transfer your electronics from the Big Stick. Then once you are back up to speed switch the electronics back and you are only out $140. If the trainer is not beat up you can probably sell it and the engine together for $70 maybe $80 pretty easily.
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