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Old Feb 06, 2008, 10:34 AM
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definition of scratch built

There is an article in the latest AMA mag. that defines a scratch build as one where the builder is also the origional designer. If you build a model from someone elses plans, then the model is a "plans build" rather than a "scratch" build.

I allways thought that a scratch build was where you started from raw materials, and fabricated/purchased all the individual parts to build a model.

Comments?
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 11:12 AM
Into the Wild Blue Wonder
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ATL
Joined Jan 2007
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After they defined our type of foamies as "not regular model airplanes". Im not surprised at their whack definition of "scratchbuilt".

To me "scratchbuilt" means: not built from a kit.

Jasta
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 11:17 AM
Bernoulli+Newton=Lift
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I suppose from a strict accuracy-of-wording perspective, I can see where they're coming from. But I tend towards what bubbleman said: If I build it from raw materials - plans or not - it's a scratchbuild in my eyes.
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 11:19 AM
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As long as you are enjoying what you are doing , who cares about a definition !!
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 11:21 AM
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I started scratch building back when my radio was a Kraft. Scratch building has nothing to do with who designed it. That would be scratch designing.
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 12:18 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbleman
There is an article in the latest AMA mag. that defines a scratch build as one where the builder is also the origional designer. If you build a model from someone elses plans, then the model is a "plans build" rather than a "scratch" build.

I allways thought that a scratch build was where you started from raw materials, and fabricated/purchased all the individual parts to build a model.

Comments?
To the extent that it matters:
Looking at another field: in cooking, making something from scratch
means to make it from "raw" materials, regardless of whether it is
your own recipe, or an another person's recipe.

And certainly, in this forum, the distinction seems to be between
foamie kits versus non-kits (taken from the forum headers):

1. Foamies (Scratchbuilt): A place for the homebuilders to discuss the RC foamies design and construction, and share the plans

2. Foamies (Kits): Discussion about commercially available ARF Foamie RC models
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 12:39 PM
TJC
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Cambridgshire in England!
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As lake Flyer says; Who cares. Over here anyone using foam is considered a second class citizen and not a proper modeller anyway. At the club I belong to, they laugh at my toys.

Funny really as I turn up with 4 of 5 planes all of which I've built myself. Then proceed to fly pack after pack non stop for a couple of hours while they all stand around shaking their heads fiddling with their latest 'ready built' that cost a months wages with a glow engine that refuses to run.

It used to get to me, but who leaves the field with the biggest grin?
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 12:57 PM
The Dude Abides
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I try and define things for myself. I have been wrong plenty of times, but usually end up thinking and feeling what works best for me.
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 01:38 PM
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I don't reply much, too busy building
but this one insults me as well as all of you
the plane below is a scatchbuilt,but I used pics and even plans to get started. So, even new desighns are copied from something.Even the Wright brothers copied birds.
I believe who made that statement, was jealous they couldn't glue 2 sticks together without a picture telling them how.
If you can read a plan and build it you are a scratchbuilder
hope I didn't tick off the wrong people
are there airplane secret police people that are coming to get me now?
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 01:47 PM
Slip the surly bonds...
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Christchurch,England
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There's a difference between what words actually mean and what we would like them to mean. Scratch built means "built from scratch". And "scratch" means "without an advantage of any sort".
It comes from the world of handicap racing where the scratch mark was where the fastest runners started. Slower runners started from various marks in front of scratch. The scratch runners had to overcome the distance hadicaps to win the race. Still do in all sorts of handicap races.
So in aeromodelling, scratch building means starting without a plan: designing the model yourself. Building from plans means just that: it's the next mark up from scratch. Building from a kit is the next. Building an ARTF is the next. Building an RTF is the next. Buying a complete model from ebay is the last.
They are not judgements, they are just what the words mean. Without consistent meanings language is useless.
Be happy that we have a great hobby, but don't pretend that you're a scratch runner if you start from one of the next marks up.
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 02:06 PM
Bernoulli+Newton=Lift
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopwith Mike
There's a difference between what words actually mean and what we would like them to mean. ... Without consistent meanings language is useless.
I agree and disagree at the same time. Yes, sometimes words and phrases are given context and meaning that varies from the original intent. That said, language changes over time too. For instance, the word "gay" does not mean the same thing it did 80 years ago when it's definition was "happy." The word "cool" does not simply mean a slightly lower temperature anymore. Meanings of words change; people adapt to the new meanings.

I will certainly concede that I may be wrong about the term "scratch build," but I also confess I have never known it to mean one must build something with basic materials and designed it oneself. From what I recall, "scratchbuilding" in the model railroad world has meant building things from plans with raw materials (cutting / gluing / soldering the plastic / brass / etc. yourself) at least since I can remember (so that's going back to the 70's at a minimum). So in my mind, it has the same meaning in the R/C world, too.

"Plans-built" seems to be a hair-splitting distinction, to me.
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 02:07 PM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
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London, UK
Joined Nov 2006
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Are the AMA/BMFA (UK version) qualified to comment? I doubt that these guys ever have much to do with foamies.......so maybe we are exempt.LOL
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 02:34 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopwith Mike
There's a difference between what words actually mean and what we would like them to mean. Scratch built means "built from scratch". And "scratch" means "without an advantage of any sort".
...
Then again, what counts as an "advantage" can be the topic of a debate competition:
For example, for a motor (listing from more advantaged to less advantaged):
1. having the motor come with a kit
2. buying the motor separately but pre-built
3. winding your own motor
4. drawing your own wire from copper, cutting your magnets and machining
the rotating part, etc.
5. also making the magnetic material, refining the copper, steel, etc. from ore

Plus steps in between and further on.

My guess is that the AMA has a certain definition of "scratch-built"
because that definition is part of a requirement for some competition.
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 03:22 PM
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USA
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if i take a prop plane & put a edf on it what you call that. mabey we need a new forum
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 03:36 PM
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I'd say, in this forum, scratch built is from a sheet of foam. We all know who's the designer of the plans, and honor them by submitting pictures/input and what have you, in the proper thread.
Scratch built( for me ) is to build from raw material. It's not designing an aircraft. Designing an aircraft is "design", not build. That definition works for me(in my mind at least, since i'm not designing).
So, scratch build, in this forum, is to start with a sheet of foam, using plans, and have something that flies(hopefully )in the end.
As opposed to designing a plane, which for me is to draw blueprints
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