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Old Apr 19, 2001, 08:21 AM
crashnburn
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Park flyers shooting down Club flyers

I don't know about you, but I'm a little concerned with the new-found popularity of park flyers. I'm afraid that somebody with a $39.95 park flyer (the cost issue is that at a lower price the more people will get into this hobby, not that park flyers are less important than the more expensive planes) who is flying, say a half a mile from our field, is going to shoot down my $400.00 big bird. We take care at the field to avoid this, but what's going to stop some guy down the road (flying in his backyard and totally unaware of our club) from interfering with our flying ? ? There is also a safety issue here, isn't there ? ? ?

Crash

[This message has been edited by crashnburn (edited 04-19-2001).]
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 08:35 AM
jrb
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Edina, MN, USA
Joined Oct 1999
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What has your club done about it?

Invited the Park Flyer to come fly at your field?

Oh, that's right there's probably that thing called AMA that gets in the way.
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 08:36 AM
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Iraq
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here's my idea: try to get your club as well known as you can. See if you can post flyers (the paper kind ) in all of your local hobby shops. And just try to get the word out. That way, when people go into the hobby shop and pick up their first plane, they see the flyer and say, "hey! that looks like fun!". Another good thing to put on the flyers to catch someone's eye is "Free R/C Flight Instruction, to all members". They probabally won't realise that most or all clubs give free flight instruction to their new members, but it will at least get them to contact your club.
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 08:39 AM
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Agra, Oklahoma
Joined Feb 2000
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That's a problem you (we) are just going to have to deal with. I'm not so sure any one person has more of a right to be flying than another (unless of course on a club field where frequency assignments are made).

What does the cost difference have to do with it though? Would it make someone feel better if their $400.00 bird was shot down by a $1200.00 bird?

Good luck and let us know if you come up with something.

Steve
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 09:05 AM
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United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
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This has been debated in a number of other forums and I can see it coming as a backlash against all electric fliers- whether or not they fly parkfliers or irrespective of whether they practise prudent frequency control.

There is a mindset which is prevalent that someone with a "$2000 airplane" has more right to "his" frequency than someone flying a $20 Lite Stik on the same frequency. That is clearly not the case - the frequencies are there for everyone to use. My own opinion is that if you are a flyer then you should be a member of your national body in any case- but it is everyone's choice.

However in the event of a serious accident (not just the loss of someones $2,000 Extra 330 - an accident involving some injury or worse) then the operating procedures of those involved (where known) would be examined. Therefore it would be prudent for all of us to exercise proper frequency control and to find out whether the site where we intend to fly our park fliers is close to an established RC club.

Under such circumstances the ideal would be for the parkflier to join the club and fly there, with proper frequency controls. Now we all know that is just not going to happen in every case - especially where the above mindset is prevalent.

My prediction is that the end result is going to be that parkfliers will be blamed for lots of mysterious radio-failure type crashes -even where they were not involved. This may will have a knock-on effect which will included those electric fliers who maybe don't even have a park flier- after all those park fliers are electric aren't they?

Some workable technical solutions would be different frequencies for parkfliers, maybe even operating on 27mHz- though you will run into trouble from RC buggies in the park -, perhaps transmitters with reduced output, operating with partially collapsed antennae, synthesised transmitters with auto-detect, perhaps even individually coded digital transmitters (I don't know if that is feasible at the moment).

Park fliers have the potential to open up new, smaller spaces closer to habitation for e-flight and are a good opportunity to bring the hobby back closer to the populace and increase public involvement in the hobby. These are all good things- provided they are done safely and the downside of parkfliers must also be recognised.

just another two pennorth

Brian
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 09:05 AM
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Ralph Weaver's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN USA
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Quote:
Originally posted by crashnburn:
I don't know about you, but I'm a little concerned with the new-found popularity of park flyers. I'm afraid that somebody with a $39.95 park flyer who is flying, say a half a mile from our field, is going to shoot down my $400.00 big bird. We take care at the field to avoid this, but what's going to stop some guy down the road (flying in his backyard and totally unaware of our club) from interfering with our flying??
It's certainly a problem, but club flyers have no more right to the channel than the park flyers. What prevents you from shooting him down?

Quote:
Originally posted by jrb:
Invited the Park Flyer to come fly at your field?

Oh, that's right there's probably that thing called AMA that gets in the way.
The AMA has no rules regarding where a non-member can or can't fly. They just can't participate in most AMA sanctioned events.
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 09:15 AM
crashnburn
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Alot of you are getting the wrong idea!!! I'm not saying they don't have a right to fly . . . . they certainly do, but what I'm talking about is how can the situation be handled?
Can park (non-club) flyers be given different frequencies to avoid conflicts, like what has been done with r/c boats/cars? When talking about "rights" the home-flyers may not even know they are shooting us down, and I'm certain it would not be intentionally done.
AMA and club dues may be enough to keep these flyers off our fields, and it sure looks like more and more people are going to be interested in this new form of entertainment.
I'm really concerned.

Crash
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 09:21 AM
jrb
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Edina, MN, USA
Joined Oct 1999
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I sya "why keep them off the field"; open it up, have them fly with us for at least 6 months no cost club or AMA!!

Better to have them at our field, than down the street. After 6 months they'll either be hooked or no longer interested. Guess what if they're hooked, they probably have recoginzed the "value" of the belonging to the club and AMA -- if there really is some.
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 09:26 AM
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USA, FL, Apopka
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OK, lets see:

-Join the AMA $50 a year
-Club Initiation Fee $100
-Annual Club Dues $100
-Club politics
-Club bias against "toy" electric planes
-Old geezers that want to control everything

Gee I wonder why a lot of e flyers aern't rushing out to find a club?

Seriously, if the gas gang is concerned about parkflyers they need to take a good look at the cost of their club vs the benefits to guy with a Zagi or a Wingo.

I can see it now "Hey who has channel 50, oh the guy with the Zagi, tell him to land NOW, I am going to fly my $2000 CAP and I have priority!!!"

Brad
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 09:43 AM
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Hatboro Pa. USA
Joined Jan 2001
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I think its time for the AMA or someone to get involved in adding the park flyers to the same as the toy car channels 27 megs. Safty is there biggest concern. And besides when a park flyer crashes its just a bit of glue and your flying again. We all know what happens when a 4 hundred dollar plane crashes or worst yet a 3000.00 scale heli decides to come at you full bore in a 5 foot hover. Someone is going to get hurt if not killed. I say split up the toy car channel half for park flyers and half for the cars.
They did it to us in 91 and made us all get new or upgrade our radios for safty reasons.
I dont belong to a club and there are none with in 10 miles of the school I fly at. I do drive around the building first to be sure there isnt a newbie out there trying to fly. But once I am fly whats to stop him from coming 5 mins later and turning on his radio without even looking around first. Most people that buy park flyers have no clue that they can shoot someone down. So, in my honest opinion, somethig should be done before its to late. Or will the AMA be like most townships and only install the traffic light after 5 people get killed at the bad intersection.
Just my 2 cents
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 09:52 AM
jrb
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Edina, MN, USA
Joined Oct 1999
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$40 Park Flyer???

FireBird $90

Sky Scooter (Pro) $ 180 w/real radio F3, could go into a Zagi, etc.

Pico Stick $26 ++ $100 radio, $30 battery, $30 charger, etc.

Park Flyers fly, they need the "fly" channels; why would we want them on the "toy car" channels.

Let them fly at our fields.
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 09:52 AM
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I think that a when someone buys their first plane from a hobby shop, the guy running the shop should take the time to explain to them that R/C flying is a skill that needs to be taught, it's not like driving around a little r/c car. and that you have the potential of destroying someone else's airplane if you turn on your transmitter at the wrong time. And they should also explain and pressure to join the local clubs. I think it's important for a new flier to join a club, and they will have more fun there also. NOTE: i am not against flying in the local park, behind your house, ect. In fact, I do it all the time with my lite stik. but people need to be educated on where and when it is ok to fly, and where and when it is not.
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 09:55 AM
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another thing, i don't think that it is ok to put us on the 27 or 49 mhz channels! why should we be treated any differently than other R/C fliers!! it's not right for them to be able to fly on their own designated channels, and for us to be crashing because some 8 year old kid wants to drive his R/C car around!
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Old Apr 19, 2001, 09:59 AM
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Lansdale, PA
Joined Mar 2000
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i haven't found a club in subruban philly worth joining yet...same problems mentioned previously-- initiation fee- non-refundable if they decide not to let you join, high dues, MANDATORY meeting attendance with threat of membership being revoked-- some old geezers on a power trip is right on the mark.

that's not to say cool clubs don't exist...
there was an awesome club in rockville MD
(dereck woodward and co- CASA) but then, they were all electric and gliders, which for some reason also meant nice :-)

capt dave- i work in willow grove/horsham-- where do you fly?

mike schmidt-lange
north wales, PA

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Old Apr 19, 2001, 10:02 AM
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Moorefield, Ontario, Canada
Joined Mar 2001
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What about R/C models like the Megatech Airstrike (although with it's low power loading and high wing loading, "groundstrike" might be a better name). This is on 72MHz, and it's in the latest Radio Shack catalog (at least here in Canada). Is the know-nothing at Radio Shack going to tell the purchaser about AMA (or MAAC here in Canada), shooting down other models, etc.?
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