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Old Jan 24, 2008, 07:40 AM
Slope convert/addict
DelUK's Avatar
Romford, Essex. UK
Joined Mar 2006
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Flaperons vs. Spoilerons for landing

Just trying to canvass opinions from guys with far more experience than I on this subject. What is the preferred option, or does it depend on many factors as I suspect ?

I am fairly new to slope soaring, and so far have only flown aileron gliders with a Y-lead connected to the aileron channel (i.e. no differential or flaperon/spoileron mix). I am building my first scale glider (2.5m ASW-28) and will be using the ailerons as flaperons/spoilerons to assist with landings. Having read through various threads, it seems some people use flaperons to land, although most advocate spoilerons to kill lift and airspeed.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 07:56 AM
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the problem that i have with flaperons is that they decrease your control or roll/rate and most importly ,,they encorage tip stalls unlike spoilers that kill more lift ,ofter quick decent ,and they dont strip servo gears on landing
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 09:02 AM
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Spoilerons would work great on something that doesnt have seperate flaps or spoilers. The key is:
1) Getting enough throw with the spoilerons and still having some throw left for spoilers (use enough output arm) and:
2) Elevator compensation. Maybe someone who is flying the same plane can chime in with their comp throw. To find it, open up your ele comp program and fly the plane. When youre three mistakes high, pop out the spoilerons, and see if the plane pitches up or down, and adjust the compensation. Youre looking for a mushy "sit" on approach. With enough spoileron throw and compensation, you can get a very draggy, steep approach with good roll response.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 09:18 AM
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DelUK,

the rule is simple:

If your plane has ailerons only, then brake action is done by bringing them into an "up position". Otherwise you will definitely encounter serious(!) problems as and how "soarluck" already explained.
If your plane has both ailerons and flaps, you put the ailerons up and the flaps down, also called "butterfly" or "crow".

Yet a warning for both cases: On most planes, bringing the ailerons up reverses the torque in the aileron section of the wing from "nose down" to "nose up". In this configuration, the resulting overall torque of the wing is more "nose up" and has to be compensated by some elevator down trim. The amount of trim change may be between a few % to up to 30%. Recommendation: crank in some considerable down trim and try at altitude.

If properly trimmed, "aileron up" landings are extremely stable and safe around the longitudal axis.

Happy landings
Herbert
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 05:27 PM
aka Schleppmeister
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I use up spoilers on all my glider
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Old Aug 16, 2008, 12:26 PM
BEOWULF
North vancouver, B.C. Canada
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nice i found this thread from "google"

just what I needed to read

so ailerons up 45 degrees
elevator down to 15 degrees
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Old Aug 16, 2008, 10:46 PM
aka Schleppmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David22
nice i found this thread from "google"

just what I needed to read

so ailerons up 45 degrees
elevator down to 15 degrees
you need to "experience" the elevator compensation needed on your plane. Some need more, some less compensation
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 12:10 AM
BEOWULF
North vancouver, B.C. Canada
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i figure i will be way up ther to adjust spoileron and elevator.

but i still am not sure about the steering with spoilerons up

from another thread I have been told to do some more programming ?
in order to use ailerons to steer
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David22
nice i found this thread from "google"

just what I needed to read

so ailerons up 45 degrees
elevator down to 15 degrees
I've only flown with true spoilers, not spoilerons, so I'm not sure how spoilerons affect the nose pitching down compared to spoilers. When spoilers are deployed, the nose pitches down. The elevator could be raised to compensate for this if necessary. Is it the other way round for spoilerons (as shown above), or am I looking at a crash waiting to happen?

Always ready to learn,

Keith
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 12:19 AM
BEOWULF
North vancouver, B.C. Canada
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lol now I am really mixed up
kind of like when you first start the rc hobby wondering if up right aileron turns the plane right.

and then you get a v tail only and the opposite is true

know what i mean

hope you have patience if you do

this should not be this complicated
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 12:24 AM
aka Schleppmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David22
i figure i will be way up ther to adjust spoileron and elevator.

but i still am not sure about the steering with spoilerons up

from another thread I have been told to do some more programming ?
in order to use ailerons to steer
yes, with ailerons both up you should still have enough "reserve" so your ailerons are still functional. Some radios will never go over 100% servo travel, even with spoilers deployed (for example the Multiplex Royal Evo). When you apply full spoilers, make sure you still have enough servo travel available with full aileron travel up and down. If your servos jam or your pushrod touches the wing you have to reduce the spoilers throw. Adjust your spoilers so that your ailerons, servos, and pushrods can move freely when fully deflected.
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 12:34 AM
BEOWULF
North vancouver, B.C. Canada
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I like your idea it is simple
so no need for reverse differential

i think there is more than one way to land a plane with just ailerons and no rudder?

soaring usa sent me a dvd and they mentioned what you say

i guess that is why 45 degrees allows for further movement?

i think i should set mine to say 35 40 degrees to give me better stability
but faster landing right
this is crazy
problems with no flaps
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 05:10 PM
BEOWULF
North vancouver, B.C. Canada
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just for anyone else having the same questions
this helps
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=376428
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Old Aug 18, 2008, 08:44 AM
Dave
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Putnam Valley, NY
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I have spoilerons setup on both of my sailplanes. Both have only ailerons on the wings. I find that with the spoilerons in use, the roll response to the stick is much slower, however, the sailplane seems to stay fairly flat and requires little input anyhow. Somehow, the spoilerons, make the plane stay more stable as if it had more dihedral. It definitely took some high altitude testing to get the spoileron/elevator mixes correct. The amount of mix was completely different for each plane.
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Old Aug 18, 2008, 09:01 AM
BEOWULF
North vancouver, B.C. Canada
Joined Apr 2008
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ok cool I am understanding now thanks

so the recommended landing settings are aileron - 27 mm and elevator +2mm
really means aileron up 27 mm and elevator down 2 mm
right? those are my spoiler settings?

also it says for standard flight
aileron (inner side) + 5mm, -15mm (inner side, what is that, mesurement from close to the fuse)

elevator +5 mm, -5mm
exponential 40%

what does this mean?

and there is one for speed which reads ailerons(inner side) up -1.5 mm and elevator down +1 mm
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Last edited by David22; Aug 18, 2008 at 09:58 AM.
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