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Old Jan 24, 2008, 02:01 AM
PA-Electric Shocks Rocks
Cha0sEngine's Avatar
UK
Joined Sep 2003
404 Posts
Discussion
Direct Drive Tail (T-rex 450 size heli)

Has anyone tried a direct drive tail on a 450?

i am thinking about trying it and while i can make a motor to do the job, i was wondering if anyone has tried off the shelf motors for this?

I guess one of the considerations is correct size shaft (to fit the tail linkage components onto) and also removable shaft because a stock motor shaft is unlikley to be long enough..

so.. has anyone used off the shelf for a DD tail motor??
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 06:05 AM
Registered User
Singapore
Joined Jan 2004
1,830 Posts
Is there any reason u want a direct drive tail rotor for TRex450 ?

SH
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 06:23 AM
PA-Electric Shocks Rocks
Cha0sEngine's Avatar
UK
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not particularly.. just wanted to try it.. i only hover and do circuits so there wont be anything funky involved.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 06:51 AM
Sippin' on Kool Aid
Long Island NY, USA
Joined Dec 2005
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someone did a brushless tail conversion wth there t-rex. i remember seeing a thread about it but it hasnt been around for a while. try searching google.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 07:27 AM
Team Mulikow
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Manila, Philippines
Joined Oct 2006
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Why take a step backwards?
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 07:47 AM
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Gloucester Ma
Joined Dec 2002
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Maybe he is thinking of keeping the pitch controll.
The weight of a small brushless may not be to much more than what you could remove. It also leaves some interesting mix options (or as in my case confusion)!
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 09:30 AM
PA-Electric Shocks Rocks
Cha0sEngine's Avatar
UK
Joined Sep 2003
404 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Monell
Maybe he is thinking of keeping the pitch controll.
The weight of a small brushless may not be to much more than what you could remove. It also leaves some interesting mix options (or as in my case confusion)!

ahh.. yeah i obviously wasnt too clear..

yes i intend to have servo controlled pitch with the existing mechanism.
its just that the drive for the tail will be DD instead of belt.

hence needing a long shaft on the motor (to fit the slider and such like on)

that way i can either have constant tail throttle.. or mix it with the main motor throttle in some way.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 10:19 AM
X-Ikarus
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United Kingdom, North York
Joined Feb 2003
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Beltless is still alive and working well
Seven running locally

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492675
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 10:42 AM
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United States, IL, Chicago
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I might be wrong but using 2 motors will be less efficient and would require more power from the battery than just using a belt.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 11:18 AM
Ship first, Improve often
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Virginia
Joined Apr 2005
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Scale guys do it quite a bit. It can be a royal pain trying to create the mechanical gearing to do a raised tail so a lot of people just use a brushless motor for that. You don't see it to much on non-scale helis.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 03:44 PM
That tree again!!!!
thanhTran's Avatar
Germantown, MD, US
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almaz
I might be wrong but using 2 motors will be less efficient and would require more power from the battery than just using a belt.
Without any number, it's hard to say so. It might be the other way around. On my bigger heli, belt tension is pretty heavy, I think tail motor would be much better.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 05:31 PM
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Singapore
Joined Jan 2004
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I tried using motor to drive the tail for TRex 450 size before.

This is what u need:
A outrunner motor that allow u to remove the main shaft (motor). GWS motor is one of them.
A longer 3mm shaft. U can use those micro size heli like Honey Bee CP/CP2 main shaft.
Modify the existing TRex tail casing in order to have the main shaft hold it in place. (a shaft collar or pulley that hold the shaft so it does not slide in and out)
The motor is mounted in the opposite side of the tail blades.
Thus, u can use back the normal TRex tail hub, slider, blade grips and blades.
U need another ESC for the tail motor. U need it to be able to run in Governor mode.

Personal Opinion:
Compare to belt, I rather go for belt. For elevated tail with belt is actually very easy.
Using tail motor does not look scale on the tail side. Spin up and power down also do not look scale (main and tail spin up/down independently).
If your tail ESC governor is not that good, it suffers from tail wagging when u move your tail due to motor is hunting.

If u want to have higher tail authority, u can always go for higher tail RPM by changing the tail ratio or use multibladed tail instead.

SH
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Old Jan 25, 2008, 01:42 AM
PA-Electric Shocks Rocks
Cha0sEngine's Avatar
UK
Joined Sep 2003
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cheers guys thats exactly what i was looking for.. i knew id seen it somewhere before. :-)
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Old Jan 25, 2008, 08:45 AM
My hobby is why Im broke
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USA, TN, Millington
Joined Dec 2002
6,861 Posts
I run my scales using a motor driven tailrotor on my scales. Looks great and works very well. On my 450 size helis Im using an AXE CP N-60 high authority brushed tail motor. While the motor is turning unless you have freeze frame stop vision, you cant tell about the tail rotor while its spinning. Personally, it dosent look bad just sitting either. Heres a few pics:
Some good things Ive found using the electric tailmotors: You can run at main rpms at a higher pitch and lower rpm without loosing tail authority. Every Heli with an elevated tail hasi it in a different location or height. If you use a belt driven tail, you would need a specific tailboom/belt mod for each model. Example: The Blackhawk tailboom is much taller than the UH-1 Huey and also at a different angle. How does it perform, so far Im having a blast with mine. Fwd flight is excellent also. Flying scale you have to remember youre not doing blinding piros, flips.
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Old Jan 25, 2008, 11:45 AM
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Joined Sep 2006
1,560 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Hornet
I tried using motor to drive the tail for TRex 450 size before.

This is what u need:
A outrunner motor that allow u to remove the main shaft (motor). GWS motor is one of them.
A longer 3mm shaft. U can use those micro size heli like Honey Bee CP/CP2 main shaft.
Modify the existing TRex tail casing in order to have the main shaft hold it in place. (a shaft collar or pulley that hold the shaft so it does not slide in and out)
The motor is mounted in the opposite side of the tail blades.
Thus, u can use back the normal TRex tail hub, slider, blade grips and blades.
U need another ESC for the tail motor. U need it to be able to run in Governor mode.

Personal Opinion:
Compare to belt, I rather go for belt. For elevated tail with belt is actually very easy.
Using tail motor does not look scale on the tail side. Spin up and power down also do not look scale (main and tail spin up/down independently).
If your tail ESC governor is not that good, it suffers from tail wagging when u move your tail due to motor is hunting.

If u want to have higher tail authority, u can always go for higher tail RPM by changing the tail ratio or use multibladed tail instead.

SH
What power rating would the tail need to have? How many watts? GWS motors are a bit on the heavy side, it'll throw off the balance quite a bit. Got any motors you tried that worked you can suggest?
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