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Old Aug 10, 2012, 11:56 AM
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Austria, Vbg., Hohenweiler
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Originally Posted by arrowking View Post
IngleSingles,

I'm wondering how you're securing the vertical stabilizers to the airframe?
Hi arrowking, this is something I was thinging about the last couple days and is also the last problem which has to be solved before I can close the fuselage.

I think I will do it in this way: the V stabs will be made removeable. i will just stick them in two small aluminum or brass tubes in the fuselage (or the stabs) and secure them with a small grub screw.

On the RBC F-22 they did that almost the same way. I think this should work pretty well. I will post pictures of my solution.
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Old Aug 13, 2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowking View Post
IngleSingles,

I'm wondering how you're securing the vertical stabilizers to the airframe?
Hi arrowking,

here is my solution for the V-stabs: 2 aluminum tubes (5/4 mm) and two carbon spars 4mm for each V-stab. You just slide them in, no glue and no srew necessary.
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 12:22 AM
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I like it.

No grub screws? how are they secured in place?
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by arrowking View Post
I like it.

No grub screws? how are they secured in place?
No need to secure them, you really need to pull to get them out
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 02:48 PM
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Thrust vectoring noozles at work!
Watch the video:
20120814 173248 (0 min 26 sec)


Each noozle will be moved individually. Theroetically you have the possibility to reduce the outlet diameter during flight and increase the air velocity like real jets do. I hope I can manage the complex programming.

Iīm thinking about installing a gyro or stabilisation system, which I think is very helpfull. But Iīm not sure how that will work flying a taileron system??

So help is needed in this point!!!
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 09:23 PM
Life begins at transition
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Either use a control board that can do the mixing (kk2 for example) or use an onboard mixer after the gyros.
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Old Sep 01, 2012, 09:19 AM
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After a couple of days off, hereīs my progress. Horizontal and vertical stabs are adapted to the fuselage and ready for final painting. Now I can give also some details on the expected final weight. As always I didnīt manage it to be under 3 kgs but right now the all in weight is 3.2 kgs. I also did a thrust measuring stating 1.2 kg of static thrust with a 30% battery. So I guess with a full battery I should reach 1.45 kg on each fan. I hope 2.9 kg of static thrust are enough to fly that jet, as thrust drops when the fans are built in. I still have the option to run a 6s battery.
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Old Sep 01, 2012, 12:18 PM
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Great work! Looks very good.

For the thrust vectoring thier is no need for a gyro.

I fly mine with no gyro and it handels very well. Mine is around 40 lbs RTF and the thrust vectoring is a ton of fun.

Some of the model F22s (like the jetlegend) need taileron mixed with aileron to get good authority. On my yellow F22 it does fine on just ailerons and elevator no need to mix them. So it depends on how your model is built.

One thing to be carefull about is rudder throw. If you give the F22 to much rudder in flight it will snap roll on you very fast. We tried this on 2 totaly different F22 types and they both did the same thing.

Good luck If you have any questions about the thrust vectoring flight or anything let me know. You are doing great!
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
Great work! Looks very good.

For the thrust vectoring thier is no need for a gyro.

I fly mine with no gyro and it handels very well. Mine is around 40 lbs RTF and the thrust vectoring is a ton of fun.

Some of the model F22s (like the jetlegend) need taileron mixed with aileron to get good authority. On my yellow F22 it does fine on just ailerons and elevator no need to mix them. So it depends on how your model is built.

One thing to be carefull about is rudder throw. If you give the F22 to much rudder in flight it will snap roll on you very fast. We tried this on 2 totaly different F22 types and they both did the same thing.

Good luck If you have any questions about the thrust vectoring flight or anything let me know. You are doing great!
Hi gunradd,

thanks for your encouraging words. I try to keep the plane as simple as possible in the first step. Currently I donīt plan to put in rudders, ailerons, flaps or gear (beacuse I donīt have runway, only grass takeoff). But the plane is constructed in a way that makes it possible to put that in later if necessary. Itīs all a question of the RTF weight.

Also thanks for your support for the thrust vectoring system. One question on that:

I have four servos (one for each paddle). Should I route them with a Y-connector to one chanel and mix them with the elevons. This would mean giving up the possibility of reducing the outlet area during the flight to increase air velocity
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 09:47 AM
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I would not Y them. I had mine together for a while but after doing some hard thrust vectoring you dont have any speed and the ailerons do nothing until you build your speed back up. I didnt like the loss of roll control so I mixed the thrust vectoring in with my ailerons and elevator and I can turn them off with a switch.

I have forgot and landed a few times with the thrust vectoring still on and it really feels no different. It takes a lot of aileron and elevator throw to make the vecorting move allot the way I programmed it into the radio. So flying with it is still smooth and then when you pull hard it flips around.

At the beginning of this link you can see some of my raptor flying. My exhaust pipe was cracking so one side of the plane had more thrust and was throwing the vectoring off to the right. Its all fixed now but will still give you an idea of how it works.
Jets Over Kentucky 2012 Part 2 (Crash) (11 min 46 sec)






Quote:
Originally Posted by inglesingles View Post
Hi gunradd,

thanks for your encouraging words. I try to keep the plane as simple as possible in the first step. Currently I donīt plan to put in rudders, ailerons, flaps or gear (beacuse I donīt have runway, only grass takeoff). But the plane is constructed in a way that makes it possible to put that in later if necessary. Itīs all a question of the RTF weight.

Also thanks for your support for the thrust vectoring system. One question on that:

I have four servos (one for each paddle). Should I route them with a Y-connector to one chanel and mix them with the elevons. This would mean giving up the possibility of reducing the outlet area during the flight to increase air velocity
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 07:08 PM
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Hey Nem3,

I have a proposition for you. I've been following your thread "F-22 Raptor Drawings", I love your work, and also your willingness to provide your dwgs. I have a copy and will one day build one .

I have a similar thread about the F-16, though I haven't released my dwgs yet, I'd consider them pre-alpha.

I'm playing around with the idea of selling plans, or kits, or ARFs, but to tell you the truth, such a venture would be incredibly risky for a nobody like me. Not to mention all of the foamies out there for ~100-200$, I could never compete with that.

Because of this, I'm seriously considering just releasing my plans as an open hardware project, to let other people build their own, and potentially contribute to the drawings themselves. If a community builds around the project, then I maintain central control over the documentation, and trademarks. This "street cred" could then be monetised by selling official documentation prints or official CNC cut kits with trademarks.

Because I've got bulkheads to create an F-22, F-16 and an F-15 too using the same bulkhead design style as our designs, I got to thinking that it'd be great to have a central repository with open hardware drawings for different jets.

I've created a project page on sourceforge for my drawings http://sourceforge.net/projects/openf16edf/ which will likely eventually host the dwgs. sourceforge is a great site for managing an open source software community because it gives you version control, webpage, wiki and forums for free! I think it would work great too for managing an open hardware community.

My thoughts are to release my dwgs under a creative commons share-alike attribution V3 license.

My proposition for you is the following: If you would release your drawings under CC BY-SA V3, I will do the same too. The benefit of releasing your dwgs under CC BY-SA V3 is you can start to build a community around your dwgs/docs, like open source software. Your current restrictions prevent anyone from redistributing their modifications to your dwgs.

It'd be cool if we could build a central repository for open-hardware jet dwgs on sourceforge, one for the F-16, one for the F-22, and one for the F-15 (there are bulkheads for this one too). We could add more jets as more dwgs become available under CC SA V3. Everyone would have access to high quality dwgs, and would be able to contribute to those dwgs, and show off their builds. I don't think anything like this has ever been tried before in the RC world.

If you would give this proposition some consideration, I'd appreciate it.

Just a note, open hardware is a very strange beast, you technically can only use copyright law and copyright licenses to control the dwgs/docs, you can't actually prevent people from building a physical object from your plans unless you have a patent... I know from your thread that you don't want people to make $$ off your work. I think you may only be able to prevent people to make $$ off copies of your dwgs, but they'd still be able to make a physical jet based on your design and sell it. I think you'd need a contract or NDA to legally protect that IP when you pass someone a copy. I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. My source of info is from pretty good authority:

Richard Stallman explains how copyright can't be used to stop people from making and selling hardware
Bruce Perens explains how you can't copyright hardware, though you can copyright the documentation

I'm not sure if you know either of those two guys, they are big guys in the free/open-source software world and know a lot about copyright law. Anyways hopefully you'll be willing to join me on the light side and we can give this little experiment a shot .

I wanted to send this via pm but there's a 3000 character limit... stupid rule... It may be best to continue this discussion via pm, it's up to you.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 08:07 PM
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I started cutting the F-22 shown in CAD on my last post. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...4#post21306623
Looks like it might work out.
Ended up with a small tear towards the front, should have added a tab there. Lower duct shown, and wings came out at 5 grams total. Plane wing span planned to be 12.1 inches, and about 17 inches long (nose tip to aft most edge of stabilizer).
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:08 AM
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Patched the tear, and cut out the wings. Decided to redraw to make a canopy cutout. Figured it would be better to mill it rather than cut it by hand, since this foam will be thin.
I decided to start a thread on this one here. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1759433
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:31 AM
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Austria, Vbg., Hohenweiler
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Hi Guys,

just wanted to give you an update on my Raptor build. The project is currently on hold for a simple reason. Itīs to cold in my garage to laminate the fibreglass. I will report as soon as there is further progress.

Ingles
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:00 AM
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Hey Guys,

My F22 build has been on hold for over a year now and I have now decided to get back into it, as I finally have some time to spare. I do however have an issue. I am unsure how to mount the wings, I have attached a photo of the wings and the airfoil mount that will be attached to the airframe, anyone got any idea's how I can do? Also I am not sure how I am going to mount the taileron servo's, if anyone has any idea's please help me out. First time build so hoping I can finish it eventually.

Cheers,

Matt
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