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Old Jun 03, 2001, 10:01 AM
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Frederiksberg, Denmark
Joined May 2001
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Build Wingo with PVA instead of Epoxy ?

Hello

Has anyone had experiences with using white glue (PVA) instead of Epoxy in building and repairing the Wingo ?

Jens Jakob
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Old Jun 04, 2001, 10:47 AM
Space Coast USA
hoppy's Avatar
Space Coast
Joined Oct 2000
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Since no one has jumped in, let me suggest the obvious, or at least what I do in these situations, although some people think I'm devious rather then obvious, but...I'd get some polystyrofoam, like from the garbage can at an electronic store, and try the different glues. The advantage, and disadvantage when gluing the fuse together, is that the epoxy sets quick enough that you can hold the parts together till it sets. Be careful when using 5 min epoxy on the fuse joining, if you're not quick, it will set before you have all the glue applied.
I have seen posts where white glue, which I think is PVA, has been used to repair the foamies. I don't think the PVA has the strength for some of the applications such as holding the axle in place.
good luck
hoppy
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Old Jun 04, 2001, 10:53 AM
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Frederiksberg, Denmark
Joined May 2001
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That is a nice question. And yes, I might do that if I dont hear from anyone with existing experiences.

I do not like 5 min. epoxy, since it is so fast. I orefer the 24 hour curing. Only prob. is that it runs much easier. Sigh...

JJ
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Old Jun 04, 2001, 01:31 PM
Space Coast USA
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Space Coast
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There is a 30 min epoxy in tubes, but I'd time it just to be sure. The last 30 min stuff I bought cured pretty fast....but then again, it's in the high 80's here. The cure rate is highly dependent on the temperature, doubles for each, 10C rise in temp. That's twice as fast so as not to confuse things. Spreading it out on the surface quickly slows it down as small quantities don't "self-heat" as much as the batch in the mixing container. One trick the boat builders use is to mix very fine sawdust or microbeads in the epoxy to thicken it.
Good luck
hoppy

Quote:
Originally posted by JensJakob:
That is a nice question. And yes, I might do that if I dont hear from anyone with existing experiences.

I do not like 5 min. epoxy, since it is so fast. I orefer the 24 hour curing. Only prob. is that it runs much easier. Sigh...

JJ
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Old Jun 04, 2001, 01:38 PM
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Texas
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I prefer 5 minute epoxy because it sets so fast.

Dave
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Old Jun 04, 2001, 02:38 PM
Space Coast USA
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Space Coast
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Hey Dave, they got some 60sec stuff in the double tube containers that defies you to get it on before it sets. Stir for 10 sec. and hope.
hoppy

Quote:
Originally posted by dave_lilley:
I prefer 5 minute epoxy because it sets so fast.

Dave
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Old Jun 04, 2001, 03:08 PM
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Jens,

Yes. I've used PVA to glue balsa to foam. I think it'll work fine, but you'll have to let it sit overnight to dry.

PVA is invisible, light, and flexible. Epoxy is heavy and brittle.

Test it first, but I see no problem. Glue up the fuselage halves with it. I'd use epoxy for the tail boom, axle, etc.

Yellow woodworkers glue (or white Elmers) is good for repairs. Invisible when dry and light in weight.

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Old Jun 04, 2001, 09:16 PM
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garland,tx. usa
Joined Dec 2000
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i used oderless ca to build mine. have had a few hard landings and no problems at all. but i did not use kicker to make it faster it was fast enough. it took about 30 min. from start to finish to build.


plop

[This message has been edited by plop (edited 06-04-2001).]
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Old Jun 04, 2001, 10:49 PM
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Granby, CT, USA
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re: "Plop's" response about gluing foam with odorless CA which set fast enough to not need a kicker. Good thing, too. Accellerator will eat big holes into white foam wherever the foam is unfortunate enough to be contacted by accellerator. It would be a misery to try to help out a c/a joint in foam with kicker, and see the fuselage melt away before your eyes. I found this out when I was visiting a hobby dealer in search for some kicker for odorless CA. We could not locate any, so we tried the 'regular' stuff. Most impressive.
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Old Jun 04, 2001, 11:01 PM
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Zebulon, NC
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Quote:
Originally posted by JensJakob:


I do not like 5 min. epoxy, since it is so fast. I orefer the 24 hour curing. Only prob. is that it runs much easier. Sigh...

JJ

Never heard that before, I wish it was faster sometimes, Ive never seen the 60 second stuff or I would use it alot.
Why wait 24 hours when it will be glued in 5 minutes? there shouldnt be any problem getting it in place in that time.
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Old Jun 04, 2001, 11:50 PM
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United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
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PVA (white glue) is certainly an excellent adhesive to use with foam - most of the weight is water, which evaporates off (very slowly in this use with foam), it's flexible, very benign healthwise and just needs a bit of patience and slightly different method of working to epoxy. We are gluing a material with not a great deal of strength and the cured PVA is probably much stronger than the foam in any case.

Aliphatics are also good, share many of the attributes of PVA but seem to sand easier. I really like the Super Phatic which is very thin and can be used as a CA substitute- haven't used it much on foam though.

I find odourless CA is particularly good on Depron but horrendously expensive here in the UK (6-7 for a small bottle) and has a short shelf life. I never use kicker but imagine that the heat generated by the accelerated curing mght well cause a big problem with EPS.

Having tried several epoxies out my fave is now the Z-poxy brand and I use both 5 minute and 30 minute varieties. For a job like joining fuselage halves or wings I would always use the 30 min variety. If it's a warm day that will set in a good deal less than 30 minutes and you need to be able to pour it, mix it, apply it, get the job squared up, taped pinned or weighted. I would find that a problem using 5 minute every time (specially as that also often goes off before the 5 minutes is up).

The concept of 4 minute epoxy makes me laugh - sort of like the Spinal Tap of adhesives. Who can "really" need an adhesive that sets a whole minute faster? Actually thinking on, an 11 minute epoxy would be a fine marketing move

ramble over

Brian
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