Alert UPDATED -- Futaba 6EX and 7C Serivce Advisory

[AIRPLANENUTS]

I can't resist. This is taken from Futaba's website.

Futaba gets it right the first time.

Futaba takes great pride in making sure that every new product performs flawlessly before it's offered to our customers. Others hesitate to invest so much effort in testing. Some may even consider their "first run" products a step in the process of working out bugs, using feedback from the earliest buyers. Futaba is different. When you choose a Futaba 2.4GHz FASST radio system or module/receiver set, you've selected a fully tested, well-engineered, totally reliable product – one that's absolutely ready to give demanding R/C hobbyists the performance they expect. Our hands-on experience with 2.4GHz technology stretches back 15 years, long before anyone considered its value in hobby applications. That's when engineers in Futaba's industrial R/C division – designers of radio-control tools for construction, civil engineering, and similar uses – began employing and perfecting their own 2.4GHz equipment. Those same engineers were brought in to share their knowledge as soon as we were comfortable that 2.4GHz technology had perfected for the unique demands of R/C hobby applications. No other radio manufacturer had such an instant supply of expertise.

[Julez]

Thus far, we have NOT been able to negate the identification code in any of the transmitters that we have tested.

Well, two of three german users who let their batteries run down were affected.
I was actually the third one, and my radio simply lost its code after I switched it on exactly the same way as I did hundreds of times during the last 6 months.

Again, the main error is not that a radio has the ZGUID, but that it has the ability to get the ZGUID all by itself.
If this main error will not be corrected satisfactory, Futaba has a reputation to lose, as described here.

Weak phrases like "we are not able to reproduce the problem" simply won't cut it.
While it is nice to hear that the inventory wil be cleared of ZGUID TXes, this is not the main problem.
When XPS, Spektrum, and even ASSAN are able to keep their GUID, it would be very sad if Futaba was not able to manage the problem.
Who can guarantee me, that my TX will not lose its GUID the next time I switch it on, like id did yesterday evening? I would hate the thought that I would have to worry about each and every switching process.

[Eagleburger]

Not to sure how these systems operate, but here is my theory.

Battery runs down, system turned off and the battery(NiMH?) bleeds some more.

System is turned on and only has enough power for a momentary burst of operation, PRESTO! instant zguid.

[JOddino]

Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R

It is clear that this is not a systemic design flaw since there are literally thousands and thousands of these systems out there and they were first sold over a year ago. Logically it appears that something happened recently to cause this situation. Futaba and its retailers and service centers are working to resolve the issue and are being proactive and transparent in their efforts.

What more do we expect??

Sounds to me like it might be a systemic design flaw. If the code can be reset without the operator knowing it, then sooner or later all transmitters will be reset.

I wonder how they will reprogram it to its original exclusive code or will they just use a new one?

They need to explain how it happened and why it won't happen again.

This is not a small problem.

Jim

[Eagleburger]

Originally Posted by krysta

Futaba 6EX, 7C and TM-7 Service Advisory-

This service advisory affects only owners of the Futaba TM-7 module and 6EX and 7C FASST systems. Each FASST transmitter contains a unique eight digit identification code, programmed at the factory to identify the respective transmitter and to allow a receiver to be paired only to that radio’s signal. Recently we have learned that a very small number of the TM-7 modules, and 6EX and 7C FASST systems were incorrectly coded with a common code number during the manufacturing process. These units were subsequently sold prior to our awareness of the situation.

If two or more units, utilizing this common identification code, were to be in use simultaneously, they may cause interference with one another. Please note: Units which utilize the correct identification code will not be affected by these units.

We’re extremely confident that this is not a widespread problem. We know of only one instance in the United States. However, to give you peace of mind that your system is not affected, we will soon be setting up test stations at participating hobby shops throughout the country where you will be able to go to determine -- within a matter of minutes -- whether or not your transmitter is affected, at no charge to you. Or, if you prefer, you may send it in to our service center we will analyze it for you at no charge. If any problem is found, it will be replaced. We will gladly pay the postage for returning the unit and sending it back to you.

If you have questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact our Futaba Service Center at: 217-398-0007 or via email at: service@futaba-rc.com. Our staff is available to you Monday-Friday, 8am-5pm U.S. Central Standard Time.

Precautionary Measures and Information-

1) As with all radio control equipment, we strongly suggest that you pre-flight your aircraft thoroughly prior to flying. When flying at a location with other FASST owners, prior to flying we suggest that all pilots briefly activate their systems simultaneously to check for any interaction between units. If any interactions should occur, do NOT fly. Return the unit to the Futaba Service Center for immediate replacement.

2) Each time that your transmitter is turned on, it is imperative that you allow the FASST system an adequate amount of time to thoroughly boot-up completely before shutting down the transmitter. We recommend allowing the system at least five (5) seconds prior to turning off the power to the transmitter.

3) If the transmitter and receiver have lost their binding which required them to be re-linked, we recommend returning them to the Futaba Service Center for analysis. This is not expected behavior and should be investigated accordingly.

Originally Posted by krysta

There is no confirmation that low voltage can cause this error, the factory is still checking this, but at this time, they cannot confirm this. The problem of the zero encoding was in the manufacturing. You can test this only if a receiver is set to zero, which none were. This cannot be done unless you have a special receiver.


Sincerely,
Krysta
Product Development & Support Specialist
Futaba Service Center USA

futaba is denying the issue still. Perfect sets can be made faulty, every set is faulty.

Originally Posted by krysta

Ian,

We have performed literally hundreds of hours of testing on the Futaba FASST systems since this issue was reported to us. Thus far, we have NOT been able to negate the identification code in any of the transmitters that we have tested.

To be safe, however, we have inspected 100% of our inventory. All Futaba 6EX and 7C FASST transmitters, and TM-7 FASST transmitter modules shipped from our distribution center beginning Monday, January 14 and after, have been checked to insure that they do not contain the incorrectly coded identification.

Additionally, it is important to note that the TM-14 modules and transmitters with those modules are not affected.


Sincerely,
Krysta
Product Development & Support Specialist
Futaba Service Center USA

If you cant reproduce the problem in any sets how do you know that the TM-14 modules are not affected?

[sweetpea]

I'm not here to bash, I have some valid questions.

As a CD, one of the main reasons for guys switching to 2.4 is so that they do not have to radio impound at events.

My question is with #2 and #3. Right now you are saying there could be a problem if these 2 conditions happen. What you are not saying is what the problem is or even might be.

So for the average flyer I cannot protect them from their own radio failing or interference outside of my control from bringing their airplane down. What I can control is freq conflicts so that one pilot does not inadvertantly (or on purpose) "shoot" another pilot down.

Since not every FASST owner will read this forum, your website or any other online forum I have to assume that FASST systems (models mentioned here) will have freq conflict. Since I will not have the equipment to test who has a Zguid and who doesn't I have to assume they all do. Even if I checked them prior to the contest you are now saying that with #2 and #3 there could be a problem.....

My questions......

Is that problem radio specific (i.e radio loses programming modes etc)?
Is that problem the possiblity that it may Zguid and effect another user on Zguid?
Futaba is unsure of what exactly will happen during these #2 and #3?

Just to be fair......XPS/Spektrum have their own issues with planes falling out of the sky but they affect only the pilots plane. Not someone else flying.

Fast cycle of the 14/12mz's ........

what happens here?
-data lost?
-do freqs reset?

Any cause for concern to someone else's plane on 72mhz?

[RyanPSU21]

When the test stations are setup will their be a decal or some other document given to state that our TX's don't have ZGUID?

[Silent-AV8R]

The 12 and 14 series of radios already make it clear that the system must be fully booted up, or shut down before the power switch is cycled. If you change the switch position during either of those times you risk the TX locking up and requiring you to do a hard reset.

This is irrespective of what type of module is plugged into the TX.

[sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R

The 12 and 14 series of radios already make it clear that the system must be fully booted up, or shut down before the power switch is cycled. If you change the switch position during either of those times you risk the TX locking up and requiring you to do a hard reset.

This is irrespective of what type of module is plugged into the TX.

I have to admit I'm not 100% fluent on the 14/12 (I'm slowly trying to though).

What does a hard reset reqiure and is it obvious to the user?

I know you have to tell the transmitter to transmit after power on. If there was a hard reset does it reset the freq to something other than last used?

[harphunt]

I am happy to see Futaba stating that there is a problem, but I agree that they haven't gone far enough. This "Switch" issue is still unresolved in my mind. That my code can be reset anytime/sometime in the future is ridiculous.

Krysta please resond.

PEACE

[Daemon]

Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R

The 12 and 14 series of radios already make it clear that the system must be fully booted up, or shut down before the power switch is cycled. If you change the switch position during either of those times you risk the TX locking up and requiring you to do a hard reset.

This is irrespective of what type of module is plugged into the TX.

Of course users *never* accidentally or purposely do something
other than what you tell them to do, do they. Since this fault lies in
the Rf module (whether integrated or not), there may still exist some
power on/off sequence that'll cause it to fail, in all radios. If it's
possible, it'll happen to someone. Until Futaba actually is able to
reliably reproduce the failure, and understand exactly what component or
software problem causes it, I certainly wouldn't trust any statement that
says "these units are not affected".

And my hypothesis for the run Tx battery to death problem
(if it exists, and the evidence suggests that it does), is
probably because as it gets into the brownout phase, the Tx is actually
turning itself off and back on again randomly. (voltage drops.. ICs turn
themselves off,.. once off voltage rises, they turn themselves back on..
increased current drop, lowers voltage again.. rinse, repeat).
And it's not something you can reproduce on the bench by lowering the
voltage with a regulated power supply because you won't get
the same up and down behavior of both voltage and current
as you do with a battery.

ian

[Silent-AV8R]

SweetPea:

From the 14MZ manual:

Once you turn on the power, never shut off the
power switch until the power becomes stable
(or until the fi rst screen shows up). If you turn
off the power switch while the transmitter is
going through the initialization process, the
data could be damaged. Note: The start-up time
may be a little bit slower when the CF card
is installed compared to when the card is not.

and

Once you turn off the power, never operate the
power switch until the power shutdown process
is fully completed. If you turn on the power
switch again while the transmitter is still in the
process of power shutdown, the data could be
damaged.

And how to reset:

How to reset software
If the screen freezes for some reason and you
cannot edit, the transmitter power supply is not shut
off even if you turn OFF the power switch. You will
need to use the reset button or remove the battery
and reinsert it again. In this case, the power restarts
in “Cold mode”. Even though the screen freezes,
all the other functions for radio control operation
remain operative.

There is also a master reset button behind the battery for a worse case reset.

If this turns out to be a necessary precaution for the 6EX, I can't see how it is a big deal MANY electronic devices have similar precautions.

[Silent-AV8R]

Originally Posted by Daemon

Until Futaba actually is able to
reliably reproduce the failure, and understand exactly what component or
software problem causes it, I certainly wouldn't trust any statement that
says "these units are not affected".

Can we apply the same standard to the endless speculative comments being made by people who are not actually involved with working on a solution?

[RyanPSU21]

Originally Posted by harphunt

I am happy to see Futaba stating that there is a problem, but I agree that they haven't gone far enough. This "Switch" issue is still unresolved in my mind. That my code can be reset anytime/sometime in the future is ridiculous.

Krysta please resond.

PEACE

When they are able to reproduce it and know exactly what the root cause of the problem is they will probably say more. She already said they haven't been able to reproduce it here yet. Give them a little more time. If they don't know themselves they can't tell us.

[Z06kal]

I think the large response of many users on multiple forums should make it obvious to Futaba how upsetting the situation is and how they need to take care of "us" and make it right. Futaba if you are reading this make sure you treat us right otherwise every upset user will tell 20 of their flyer buddies and pretty soon the Futaba name will be dragged right through the mud.