Alert UPDATED -- Futaba 6EX and 7C Serivce Advisory

[krysta]

Please note, that I edited my posting. In no way would I personally blame any user.


Krysta

Originally Posted by bjpaul

"forced" how disingenuous..... Looks like this is going to be "blame the user" and deny, deny, deny.

[Z06kal]

Krysta do you know if this problem occured in the manufacturing process when the units were originally encoded or if this occurs do to an unstable situation (premature shutdown during boot, low voltage condition etc) where the code becomes lost. Or Both? Also do you know if the effected transmitters will control a fresh unprogrammed receiver so that we have something to test our units against? Basically any information you know for sure would be very useful.

[krysta]

There is no confirmation that low voltage can cause this error, the factory is still checking this, but at this time, they cannot confirm this. The problem of the zero encoding was in the manufacturing. You can test this only if a receiver is set to zero, which none were. This cannot be done unless you have a special receiver.


Sincerely,
Krysta
Product Development & Support Specialist
Futaba Service Center USA

Originally Posted by Z06kal

Krysta do you know if this problem occured in the manufacturing process when the units were originally encoded or if this occurs do to an unstable situation (premature shutdown during boot, low voltage condition etc) where the code becomes lost. Or Both? Also do you know if the effected transmitters will control a fresh unprogrammed receiver so that we have something to test our units against? Basically any information you know for sure would be very useful.

[abeille]

Thank you for the prompt and responsible response to this issue.

[Silent-AV8R]

It is clear that this is not a systemic design flaw since there are literally thousands and thousands of these systems out there and they were first sold over a year ago. Logically it appears that something happened recently to cause this situation. Futaba and its retailers and service centers are working to resolve the issue and are being proactive and transparent in their efforts.

What more do we expect??

[Daemon]

Futaba's response is totally unsatisfying.
If the Tx resetting to ZGUID problem can be made to happen on purpose (as
some people have now proven) then it can happen accidentally (as it appears it
has happened to Julez and others). That means it could affect anyone at any
time. It could happen to two people at a large event while they're setting
up new models and they'd never know it, until they shoot each other down.
It's probably already affected more people than we know of, who just
haven't flown with other ZGUID Txs yet.

ian

[Daemon]

Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R

It is clear that this is not a systemic design flaw since there are literally thousands and thousands of these systems out there and they were first sold over a year ago. Logically it appears that something happened recently to cause this situation. Futaba and its retailers and service centers are working to resolve the issue and are being proactive and transparent in their efforts.

Given the warning to be careful turning the Tx on and Off, it's clear that
it *can* happen to Tx's in the field, and is not isolated to a few units
from the factory. We already know that the GUID has been reset in the
field by 2 or 3 people, Julez being one of them. There are undoubtedly others
that we don't know about yet.

ian

[shannah]

Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R

It is clear that this is not a systemic design flaw since there are literally thousands and thousands of these systems out there and they were first sold over a year ago. Logically it appears that something happened recently to cause this situation. Futaba and its retailers and service centers are working to resolve the issue and are being proactive and transparent in their efforts.

What more do we expect??

Silent-AV8R is correct. They are being proactive and transparent. Being a guy that makes 2.4GHz radios for a living, I know how difficult it is to nail these issues down. They are doing what is professional and prudent at this time. They've given us a Service Bulletin which we can use. I'm sure the engineers in Japan are not done with this yet. But in the meantime, we can move on. They've been able to recreate the problem, they have a temporary corrective action plan for us, and we can check to see if it is happening. Keep in mind that the only failure scenario requires multiple (more than one) operators have systems in use simultaneously which have had their ID wiped out. It seems that if you are concerned there are ways to check. If you follow their guidelines then it shouldn't happen to you.

Futaba has established a good track record with this so far and this current issue is their only flaw to date. Now, I'm sure folks don't want to hear this, but as a developer I would be ecstatic if I only had a single issue crop up when making a release of a completely new system.

[krysta]

Ian,

We have performed literally hundreds of hours of testing on the Futaba FASST systems since this issue was reported to us. Thus far, we have NOT been able to negate the identification code in any of the transmitters that we have tested.

To be safe, however, we have inspected 100% of our inventory. All Futaba 6EX and 7C FASST transmitters, and TM-7 FASST transmitter modules shipped from our distribution center beginning Monday, January 14 and after, have been checked to insure that they do not contain the incorrectly coded identification.

Additionally, it is important to note that the TM-14 modules and transmitters with those modules are not affected.


Sincerely,
Krysta
Product Development & Support Specialist
Futaba Service Center USA

Originally Posted by Daemon

Given the warning to be careful turning the Tx on and Off, it's clear that
it *can* happen to Tx's in the field, and is not isolated to a few units
from the factory. We already know that the GUID has been reset in the
field by 2 or 3 people, Julez being one of them. There are undoubtedly others
that we don't know about yet.

ian

[bjpaul]

Originally Posted by krysta

Ian,

We have performed literally hundreds of hours of testing on the Futaba FASST systems since this issue was reported to us. Thus far, we have NOT been able to negate the identification code in any of the transmitters that we have tested.

To be safe, however, we have inspected 100% of our inventory. All Futaba 6EX and 7C FASST transmitters, and TM-7 FASST transmitter modules shipped from our distribution center beginning Monday, January 14 and after, have been checked to insure that they do not contain the incorrectly coded identification.

Additionally, it is important to note that the TM-14 modules and transmitters with those modules are not affected.

Sincerely,
Krysta
Product Development & Support Specialist
Futaba Service Center USA

This is from Ripmax in the U.K.

1) On the 6 EX, it was discovered that if you turned the tx on and then turned it off 0.5 second later (+-20ms) the GUID could be reset to zero. It is THAT critical, is has to be exactly that 40ms window on the 0.5 second mark. It would seem that it is very unlikely to happen in the field although it is possible. What seems to have happened is that at some point in the auto testing of the TX units after they have been programmed with the GUID, there are power cycles in the test. This power cycle was close to the time window, as such it could (on occasion) wipe the pre-programmed GUID. Futaba have changed this to prevent it happening again.
2) The same applies to the 7 C 2,4 and the 7 Module but the time is 2 seconds (+-20ms).

Your earlier comments seem to be evasive on this possibility which is documented in England.

If this is not a possibility then why the don't turn on/off in less then 5 seconds advisory?

Brad

[TheSteve]

Clearly a flaw in the hardware design and something Futaba should fix for all users so it won't happen no matter what speed the radio may be turned on/off at.

btw, I've been a huge Futaba fan for more then 20 years - I hope they make this right.

[Jurgen Heilig]

Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R

It is clear that this is not a systemic design flaw since there are literally thousands and thousands of these systems out there and they were first sold over a year ago. Logically it appears that something happened recently to cause this situation. Futaba and its retailers and service centers are working to resolve the issue and are being proactive and transparent in their efforts.

What more do we expect??

Well, a FASST transmitter loses its ID only under very specific conditions. It does not happen very often and obviously it never happened during the initial tests (hopefully). Despite thousands of systems sold, usually there still aren't that many at the fields. You also won't see a problem until you have two "ZGUID" systems running at the same field at the same time.

Jürgen

[Jurgen Heilig]

Originally Posted by bjpaul

This is from Ripmax in the U.K.
...
Brad

Where did you see the Ripmax info about the critical times?

Jürgen

[TheSteve]

Krysta - can you confirm if a power cycle at the wrong time will also wipe the GUID from a FASST 3 channel ground model? They appear to be more or less the same as the modules used in the 6EX etc but are programmed for ground use.
I know several people with these modules, they often perform a quick power cycle of the transmitter to verify failsafe is set before a race.

[krysta]

Hi Steve,

Due to the car systems having different data packets, you will not have any problems with them.


Sincerely,
Krysta
Product Development & Support Specialist
Futaba Service Center USA

Originally Posted by TheSteve

Krysta - can you confirm if a power cycle at the wrong time will also wipe the GUID from a FASST 3 channel ground model? They appear to be more or less the same as the modules used in the 6EX etc but are programmed for ground use.
I know several people with these modules, they often perform a quick power cycle of the transmitter to verify failsafe is set before a race.