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Old Feb 16, 2009, 05:35 PM
Can we lift the embargo?
kenstogie's Avatar
menands flats, NY
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder
I have CF in the top and bottom or wing, and in each side, pretty much where the string would have been. Most of my damage has been that the fuselage tends to snap in half pretty much at the back or rear part of the wing. When you hit the tail tends to whip to one side or the other. The force in even a fairly minor. crash has been enough to snap the 1mm x 3 mm CF strips I inserted as well as the fuselage. I also added CF rods through the motor mount extending into the fuse till about the wing. However, once I snapped the nose and the two CF rods off. The disadvantage is that it is harder to repair with the broken pieces buried in it because you can't really get them out. Strangely I have never had a problem with the gear area or the wing. I would consider some fairly heavy duty CF rods in the sides of the fuselage because the flat strips snap pretty easily IMHO>
noted. So much for "almost UNBREAKABLE EPP FOAM!" as MScomposit claims. But thanks for the tips and it is much more crash resistant than most RC planes. I have some CF Rods too so I may use them as well. Any recs on the diameter CF?
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Old Feb 16, 2009, 05:57 PM
War Eagle!
Spackles94's Avatar
Birmingham, Alabama
Joined Feb 2007
7,876 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenstogie
noted. So much for "almost UNBREAKABLE EPP FOAM!" as MScomposit claims. But thanks for the tips and it is much more crash resistant than most RC planes. I have some CF Rods too so I may use them as well. Any recs on the diameter CF?
This would be the perfect opportunity to do a shameless plug to my review of the MSComposit Patriot.

It actually builds just like the Unique, but it performs a bit differently. And, since I reviewed the Unique "stock," I took some liberties to reinforce the nose a bit. It made a huge, huge difference.

Check the review to see what I'm talking about.

CF spars across the fuse and the wings is a great idea, BTW.
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Old Feb 16, 2009, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder
I have CF in the top and bottom or wing, and in each side, pretty much where the string would have been. Most of my damage has been that the fuselage tends to snap in half pretty much at the back or rear part of the wing. When you hit the tail tends to whip to one side or the other. The force in even a fairly minor. crash has been enough to snap the 1mm x 3 mm CF strips I inserted as well as the fuselage. I also added CF rods through the motor mount extending into the fuse till about the wing. However, once I snapped the nose and the two CF rods off. The disadvantage is that it is harder to repair with the broken pieces buried in it because you can't really get them out. Strangely I have never had a problem with the gear area or the wing. I would consider some fairly heavy duty CF rods in the sides of the fuselage because the flat strips snap pretty easily IMHO>
I agree 100% with the typical fuselage snap locations, leading edge or trailing edge of wing. [See picture for dramatic evidence..that's my friend's Unique and that moment of truth....plane meets earth at unintended angle. Wing stayed intact, fuselage CF snapped]

Regarding gear area, I too only once had problems and that was after pounding the plane time and time again into the dirt, concrete, pavement, and sand at high velocities during a 6 month period.

On my 3rd build of these MS Composit planes (the Boom being my third), I used 10mm wide CF for the fuselage and for the wing. With all the crazy 3D practice I've had a few horrific crashes, and the fuselage has only broken 2x. I say "only" because on my first two Uniques, I used 3mm CF and then 5mm CF. These snapped quite a bit more often than the Boom.

By the way, I'm very interested to see how your Unique flies. I've seen 4 Unique builds in our circle and none of them fly level unless it is trimmed with some down elevator.

I have the Boom and on the trim issue alone, I'd call it a 10x better flier than the Unique.
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Old Feb 16, 2009, 07:35 PM
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USA, NH, Alstead
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
I have the Boom and on the trim issue alone, I'd call it a 10x better flier than the Unique.
I have the Blade Dancer which is similar to identical to the Boom and I agree it is a much better flyer than the Unique. The Unique tends to get squirrely at real slow flight speeds while the Blade Dancer goes where you expect it to go. The Blade Dancer is very easy to hover whereas the Unique is not nearly as easy, at least for me.

This is surprising because the planes look fairly similar at first glance and have similar weights and wing areas. One difference is that the wing is mounted higher in the fuselage in the Blade Dancer than it is in the Unique.

Having said that, for general boring holes around the sky, there is a lot of fun to be had with the Unique.
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Old Feb 16, 2009, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by u2builder
The Blade Dancer is very easy to hover whereas the Unique is not nearly as easy, at least for me.
Agreed. The Boom is vastly easier to hover.
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 08:05 AM
Can we lift the embargo?
kenstogie's Avatar
menands flats, NY
Joined Dec 2006
1,610 Posts
I have enough CF To give the Fuselage plenty of extra Reinforcement. I only got the Unique as it looked cooler to me and I figured they would fly the same. Worst case I can swap the electronics to another plane. I almost got the Pitts Bipe but thougth the Unique would be an easier build.

One thing the manual didn't address was securing the battery down. What are y'all doing for that? I was going to glue some velcro to the batt/fuse. Thoughts?
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 09:04 AM
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USA, NH, Alstead
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I have all three: Blade Dancer, Pitts, and Unique. I also bought the Unique first because I thought it looked cooler. However, there is no doubt in my mind that the Blade Dancer (or Boom) is a much better flier for slow high alpha as well as hovers.

For boring holes throught the sky the Unique is fine. What really bugged me was when I slowed it down near stall it behaved erratically. Plus, it is much harder to hover. I have compared the two planes side by side and it is really hard to figure out why the Blade Dancer is better than the Unique. The major difference seems to be that the wing is higher and more lined up with the tail in the Blade Dancer than the Unique. The Blade Dancer is a shoulder wing plane while the Unique is more of a bottom wing plane. Someday I should try moving up on my Unique.

I also like my Pitts. It flies slow and it hovers OK, but it is not as fun to fly as the Blade Dancer. Again, if you stall it it will fall out of the sky quickly (like a real plane).

The Blade Dancer is one of my favorite planes. It just does everything really well and while you can break it, like all the MS Composit planes, it is not hard to do a decent repair.

I just put a big patch of Velcro on the side to hold the battery. I have tried Velcro straps, but they just pull out when you crash. You pretty much have to figure that if you have a good crash you will eject the battery and either break the nose or break it behind the wing.
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenstogie
One thing the manual didn't address was securing the battery down. What are y'all doing for that? I was going to glue some velcro to the batt/fuse. Thoughts?
Use the industrial flavor of Velcro and warm it up with a hair dryer to better activate the adhesive on the rough EPP surface.

If you only velcro one surface, my experience has been that even a 1200mAh batteries will rip loose in extreme 3D maneuvers. Since then, I've taken to velcro-ing corner surfaces (wing bottom & fuselage) so that the battery is doubly secure.

One thing the manual didn't address? I think the guy who "writes" MS Composit manuals had a previous job designing hieroglyphs for European car interior buttons.
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 10:53 AM
Can we lift the embargo?
kenstogie's Avatar
menands flats, NY
Joined Dec 2006
1,610 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJNJperson
One thing the manual didn't address? I think the guy who "writes" MS Composit manuals had a previous job designing hieroglyphs for European car interior buttons.
Good point. The manual is lacking, for sure. I would think that to ensure a better experience, they would've spent an extra 10 mins on the thing, but what do I know?
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 12:57 PM
Can we lift the embargo?
kenstogie's Avatar
menands flats, NY
Joined Dec 2006
1,610 Posts
Another question that I forgot to ask is do I need servo extentions with a standard H and if so How Long??
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 01:32 PM
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Seattle, WA USA
Joined Dec 2006
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Check out post 139 on this thread to see how I did my battery. It does weaken the fuse a bit but I've not had any problems there. It holds the battery really well and keeps the balance solid. I found the cg by taping the bat to the wing during test flights until I was happy.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...20#post9716620

RdJay
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 02:10 AM
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Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
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I recently finished building a pair of Unique's, one for me and one for my buddy. After reading through this thread and taking a close look at the Unique, here's what I've come up with. I used a combination of carbon rods, sticks, and tow. Most of it is pretty stock stuff, except for the nose. That's where I put some time in to thinking how to make it crash proof.

I ended up developing a new method of reinforcing EPP; Welder Glue & Carbon Tow!!! Welder/tow works perfectly to keep the epp from tearing in a bad crash, but it doesn't get weak over time like CA, and it won't snap under compression like rods or strips, it just accordions and pops back in to shape! I layed 3 lengths of welder/tow around the front (wrapping around behind the motor mount). This makes the nose a tear proof crumple zone that recovers immediately after a nose dive. If you have some scrap epp lying around, you should try this method and see how you might be able to work it in to a future build.

A few tips: fill your slit with welder, then push the tow in the slit with the corner of a credit card from one end to the other, holding on to the starting end so it doesn't slide with the card. It takes practice, but I found with the proper angle, all of the tow goes right to the bottom of the slit with one quick pass. Once the tow is in, immediately fill the top of the slit in with a generous bead of welder, using your fingers to pull the slit open, and letting it squeeze out naturally (don't press ow wipe it out of the slit). It is ok to gently wipe with a rag to get the excess welder off before it dries.

Here's my specs:
Hacker A20-26m
APC 9x4.7sf
TP 3s910 PL2
OEMRC 18A esc
4@ HXT900 servos
Hitec 05s rx
AUW = 13.6oz

I've only been able to fly it in the wind a little, but from what I've seen so far I like it. It's very floaty and at the same time overpowered. Knife-edges great, and lands light as a feather. I wasn't getting enough throw on the ailerons since I mounted the servos underneath. I found some shorter horns I had leftover from a Swift2 I built recently, so I put those on my ailerons and now I get 45. Should be fun come the next calm day of flying.

Cheers,
Kev
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 07:28 AM
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Manchester, UK
Joined Nov 2005
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Truglodite,

How thick are the tows, and what's Welders Glue?

I bought some carbon tows a while ago but it's thinner than a human hair, by far. I had trouble seeing a single strand of it. Is that the stuff you mean? I think I'd have trouble pushing that in with a credit card.
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 12:52 PM
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Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
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Andy (is it?), I guess I should have looked at the denir number on the packaging before I threw it out , but it's way thicker than a piece of hair. The roll of tow I have is 1/4" wide, flat, and multi-stranded. It is a little over 1/16" thick when I twist it up in to a rope. I'm sure as I was working, the credit card was getting rough with glue, so I probably lost a strand or 2 working it in to the slit. It still has plenty of strength in the end, but I understand your concern with using very lightweight tow.

Welder glue is a particular brand of heavy duty contact adhesive, and it's available in 2 packs at every Lowe's I've been to (not so sure about availability across the pond). It's a lot like household Goop, but it's more runny when wet so it's much easier to work with and keep things light compared to Goop. I've used welder on 90% of my epp/epp joints and it's extremely tough stuff; never had a Welder joint fail on me. It's also decent stuff for laying carbon strip and rod, but I usually prefer PU for those joints.

Cheers,
Kev
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 03:25 PM
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Manchester, UK
Joined Nov 2005
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Kev,

I've got some glue called Zap A Gap A Goo that's probably close to Goop (if not the same thing with a sillier name). I haven't tried that on EPP. It's a bit messy to work with and I usually struggle to get the cap off the tube because it glues itself on fairly well. I guess it might be runnier on a warm day. I've never seen Welders so it's quite possible we can't buy it here.

I've been wondering if thin cane would do instead of CF rods for the main strengthening on a Hyperion Sniper (similar construction to the Unique). As I understand it, it just needs to resist being stretched. I don't like working with CF more than I have to. Cutting it is bad for your lungs. I also don't like using CA because I'm very allergic.

Andy (it is)
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