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Old Jan 29, 2008, 10:10 AM
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Dayton Intl, Ohio, United States
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Here is the first Fan Stick from Dave's fertile mind. I decided to model this one after the pre WWII Russian Moose Hunter. This aircraft was used in the far northern outposts of the Soviet Union to provide meat for the unfortunate souls banished to this region. It was fitted with tundra tires and fore and aft machine guns. The idea being that if you missed on the first pass you could take a shot on the pullout. The open cockpit was necessary due to the lack of heat and therefore a defrost system. After the moose was shot the aircraft would land, pick up the poor beast and take it back for dinner. Unfortunately, the aircraft did not have the payload to return the animal. After 3 moose were shot and left, the program was abandoned and lost to obscurity. (Until now)
OK, I made it up. Come up with your own story.
The model uses 2 GWS 40mm fans with a Kokam 740 lipo pack. The ESC is a castle 20. It weighs 7.3 oz. and produces about 5 oz. of static thrust while pulling 55 Watts. All I need now is a nice day to fly.
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 11:48 AM
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Doug and Dave,

Nice Job! The silver really sets it off nicely. I like the styling of the plane because it does not really fit into the traditional park flyer mold and you probably wont see a ton of these at your local flying field. At least right now!

Are you at liberty to discuss/illustrate the landing gear setup? I like how low profile it is.

I saw a special the other day at 3am on the history channel about the moose plane. I heard the Allies actually got their hands on a prototype of this plane and mistakenly thought this was a huge secret project the Ruskies were working on. Not wanting to be outdone, they dumped tons of cash into the project thinking they have to have a bigger and badder ducted fan/jet powered moose hunter. Many hours and tax dollars were spent developing this project in secret. The majority of the testing was done out near Pancho Barne's old place in the desert. There are rumors that the moose targets still exist and if you look off in the distance with the right kind of eyes you can still see the targets off in the distance.

Good news. My local HobbyTown came up with a replacement impeller for my EDF unit. I put the new one on but now it rubs on the housing AND contacts the screw head holding the unit on the fuse. I will have to carefully sand down the tips of the blade as well as dremel off the offending screw head.

I am vacum forming a nose for this thing and I am having mixed results. I molded a clay plug but didnt get the plastic hot enough so when I went to pull it, I got serious webbing. I had the clay in the frigid Cleveland air outside to cool it and hopefully let it develope a little moisture to release the plug.

I tried it again but by this time, the clay had warmed up so while I got an ok pull, the clay stuck to the inside of the nose. It took forever to scrape it off and when I did, my scape tool created a crack in the corner. So now the noce cone is broken and my mold is gone. No sweat though, I can repair the nose and make another former, maybe this time out of balsa. I will not be deterred though. I can fly it with the existing nose.

As I look outside though, the weather is really warm for this time of the year but it is raining and windy. I cant wait until nicer weather. Pics tonight.
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 04:57 PM
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The landing gear is just bent wire zip tied into the slots provided in the fuselage. The nose gear is steerable and mounts into the nose bulkhead with the provided laser cut parts and a 1/16 wheel collar. Dave made up some sort of Rube Goldberg device that mixes out the elevator input from the vtail servos. You have nosewheel steering and a fully functional vtail with 2 servos. It looks like it will work from my taxi tests down the hallway. Unfortunately, the weather here is forecast to be 17 degrees with 40 kt winds. In theory, this weather shouldn't bother the Moose Hunter.
Doug
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Old Jan 30, 2008, 09:04 AM
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It might be the worlds first RC "Mechanical Monkey Motion Unmixer".

Dave
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 08:39 PM
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Ok, we did some test flying today. The naked one shown earlier in the thread is all covered in white now prepratory for covering in US Coast Guard style. First flight, insta-snap-crash. Second flight, 2.5 snaps in 1.2 seconds, crash. I thinking, hey, that's too many snaps per second. Where the heck do I turn down the snap throw in this Tracker III TX?

It all happened so fast it was hard to tell why. I decided not to launch at full throttle (our flying area out front not smooth enough ROG) next time and to add some vertical surface. It seems I have to admit now "I was wrong" about the 140 degree V being a no brainer setup. We added some small tip plates to the ends of the V, just raw balsa, about 1 square inch each and 1/16" thick.

Next test flight with added vertical surface produced a world record flight of 3 minutes until my fingers were too cold to fly. After consulting the onlookers who all agreed this was longer than the previous snap-snap-1/2snap-crash, I decided it must be the vertical area. The air was quite turbulent and gusty. It looked like we had a little fade in yaw stability right at the last moment before touchdown (I landed at full stall). So.....

We increased the area of each tip plate about 50%. We were planing on waiting until the next day for less wind to test again and surprise, the wind had laid down quite a bit in just the previous 25 minutes, I estimate it was down to 8mph, slightly gusty. So, we flew again. Now the model is very well behaved. I decided I really like how it looks with the tip plates and they allow me to preserve the low look of the 140 degree V so that's the next mod. I plan to do some flying in clean air and judge the right / down thrust setting before cutting another kit.

Power level is excellent on the two brushed fans, speed is good. I think it's going to be exactly what I wanted, a good decent sport fan model. It sounds great whirring by. I flew it maybe 6 minutes this time with a number of low slow figure 8's. It's trustworthy. It seems to like coordinated turns (adding a little rudder to the turn). I'm hoping for zero wind Friday morning so I can get a better feel for it. It will easily do loops from level flight.

The monkey motion unmixer is fun and cool to setup and watch work, but unfortunately there is too much steering travel. I'm thinking of building the next one with a nose gear servo. I'll send the mixer out with the two proto builds. Perhaps with some more input from other eyeballs it can be improved upon. We've got a few ideas for things to try to improve upon it here also.

On another note, a concern was expressed that we might get adverse roll with yaw imputs on such a flat V. This is not the case, it does roll in the right direction with yaw though it's a soft roll. Many effects come into play to add to "dihedral" effect, even on a non-dihedral model and in this case those forces are great enough.

I think it's going to be a blast to fly. Just waiting on some friendly air to really try her out.

That is all
Dave
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 10:16 PM
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Dave,

You could keep the 140 degree tails and add the vertical tip planes perpendicular to the tail surfaces for a really cool look. Like a Heinkel Salamander.

Or, since landing gear is included, you could add a long but shallow vertical ventral fin like the Bugatti shown below. Sure it could easily be torn off but would look cool for the first flight at least

Also a 48" version would go strait to the front of my build que!

Just some ideas. I can't wait to build the Ducted Moose Monkey!

-Todd
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Old Feb 01, 2008, 08:28 AM
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Yea, tip fins at the ends of the V tail sections are what I'm talking about above. We've flown it with 2 different sizes already. One person in the shop is pushing for a ventral fin but I don't want something that drags on high alpha landings and I'm not sure I've got enough sweep to allow for one.

I spend some time last night and this morning drawing nice parts and interface tabs for the ends of the V tail. It's a simple mod really and it certianly looks good.

Dave
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Old Feb 05, 2008, 11:03 PM
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Doug, reading my warnings put some really cool tips on his, It has not maidened yet. But, I like his styling so well, it's what will end up in the kit for sure. Will report soon as we know more.
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Old Feb 05, 2008, 11:22 PM
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Do they look like Bullwinkle antlers?
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Old Feb 06, 2008, 05:45 AM
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Dooh! I didn't think of antlers!
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 01:41 PM
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Alright Fan-attics. We built a new one, used Dougs very Russian tail tip outline (it looked way better than what we had done in our tests). Doug also has a kit that he'll be working on soon (the first one ended up crushed by accident at home). The first prototype was just too ragged out to continue on with after all the testing. I felt we needed a new fresh one to get any accurate data on how well it was going to fly.

The wind was down to around 10 or less today. It flys outstanding now! No hanging down tail in turns, none of the other trimming problems. We also took all right thrust out of it. No right thrust is needed on a twin, I'm satisfied. Our first flight was hand launch, it was within a click or two of trim on all surfaces, I flew it around for a bit at cruise and WOT, did some point rolls, loops and etc..., the only issue was a bit of a climb if trimmed for cruise when you moved to WOT. After landing on pavement, we made a slight CG change. Second flight was CG about 1/16" behind spar rear edge. This brought the elevator trim more into nuetral going from cruise to WOT, now only a very slight climb. I'm sure just a bit further back (maybe 1/32") and it would be dead perfect. The model glides well, lands well and yes, the second flight was ROG. It's amazing how great the monkey unmixer to nose gear stearing works now that there is adequate vertical tail area. Nose gear was easy to manage. I just advanced to WOT and waited until I seemed to be floating on the wheels a bit and eased her off into a 45 degree climb. Simple as that. When I get more comfortable with it, I'm sure it will do much shorter take off runs. We have one wheel a bit on the stick side and we'll correct that as well.

I'll be very excited to spend some time on a real runway at a real field doing a bunch of hot passes and landings. It's got plenty of power and speed for me with the stock EDF 40 units. I'm sure it will become a real monster on a couple of 5300 Medusa's!

I'll "try" to have some kits at Toledo, no promises. I've got a little Disney trip and lots of other Toledo prep to fill up every minute from now to then. At the very least, I'll have the model on display and your welcome to handle it and see what you think.

Were working on a US Coast Guard decal set for it also.

Dave
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Old Mar 06, 2008, 11:23 AM
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Cleveland
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Dave,

Too bad about the setbacks. Im anxious to see the changes and the new Coast Guard scheme.

I finally got the bugs worked out of mine too. I replaced the broken impeller blade and it revs up nice. I was suprised at the thrust. When advancing the throttle, the transition is not as smooth as I thought but I am assuming thats because I am running both fans off one pixie esc. It wont be a barn burner but at least she will fly.

I added fins to the tail too. Right now Im just waiting for the weather to give up an inch of nice flying weather. Weatherman is predicitng a foot of snow for tomorrow so it might be a week or so before I can make this happen. My wife got me a new videocamera for B-day so I will have video and post it.

Looking forward to Toledo. I will bring the plane up there to show you.

Dan
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 03:27 PM
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We'll have ours on display. It's almost ready to photograph. We're doing a decal kit that in combination with the builders own Orange trim sheet (we used our Orange packing tape ) and some Silver So-Lite makes for a very nice model. Doug helped with the most of the fine detail printed Graphics, I'm waiting on the LHS to finish the windsheilds and USCG lettering on the wing. I'm not flying it anymore until after Toledo. We've had it out in a nearby parking lot 3 or 4 times now. It's amazing how well it flys slow, you can feed in power and almost harrier a landing in at the last. It's a fine handling machine. The last flight I pushed the take off to the max and got it off in about 12'. That's pretty good for any brushed ducted fan model. The USCG decal setup is really spiffing it up also. It will be the sharpest model I'll have on display at Toledo no doubt!

The EDF 40 units may or may not be back in stock for the show. I ordered 100 units plus a bunch of housings, I have plenty of motors and rotors to build them from.

I'm really excited about it being a very low intimidation factor fan model. It flys so nice I'm sure anybody that can fly a Mini Stick will have no trouble with this model. I've not flown it in an area bigger than a ball diamond yet. This summer at SEFF (Mac Hodges place) and my local flying field (we have a killer paved runway) it's going to be a ball.

I should have the kits at the booth if all goes well. I think it's going to be called the "Mini Hunter". It's really a much more detailed model than a "stick".

BTW, I have two beta builds ready to go for our new Mini EZ Trainer kit. (High Wing Trianer) Ron's covering our newest one as I type. It's going to be done in the PT-19 covering style. I'll post photo's when it's ready. I'll open a thread for it.

Dave
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 03:55 PM
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Check out the "Moose Hunter II" in the low wing mini with retracts thread. I posted some pics since he asked to see the retractable gear.
Doug
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 09:40 PM
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Doug, what kind of battery are you using and what is the AUW?
-Todd
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