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Old Jan 11, 2008, 09:14 AM
I NEED a micro seaplane lrf!!!
fabersum's Avatar
Torino
Joined May 2007
323 Posts
Question
How small could I go to have these ROW?

Hello everybody

I'm building a micro Macchi M7 to be powered by PalmZ parts, and I am really sorry knowing that surely it won't be able to ROW...

So my question is: which is the smallest size/setup I could build this plane at being able to make it ROW and land on water?
Same question for the Savoia SM55X... which could be the smallest setup to be able to handle on the water? And would be possible to make a smaller indoor Palmish-sized version powered by two 4 mm coreless motors? I would have to make my own three-blades props because them need to be counter-rotating, I suppose - and I can't wait to put my CNC router at work to try.

Many thanks to anyone who'll give me some suggestion!

Andrea
Torino, Italy
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 10:01 AM
It's a Great Day to Fly
LenBFP's Avatar
Melbourne Beach, Florida
Joined Jan 2002
3,865 Posts
I love your subjects and am also interested in a how small a waterplane has been built that actually would ROW. Here is a 22" (560mm) span M7 done a couple of years ago with a CDROM motor that I believe would have flown from water had it survived its maiden. It is not quite finished in this photo. It is pretty large though.

Len
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 10:52 AM
Square-rigger
meatbomber's Avatar
Klatovy, Czech Republic
Joined Mar 2004
3,355 Posts
my gues the biggest problem in the really small sizes is the water surface tension... mabe an airplane that has a perfect step, and a pretty high T/W ratio (kinda hard to achieve in very small planes too) would work... there is a guy here who did a Drake 2 or 3 with teh Kyosho minimum Cessna 210 parts which is REALLY small and it ROWed.

I think it was in the Fanfold Drake thread... maybe in micro / indoor forum
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 10:59 AM
Square-rigger
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Klatovy, Czech Republic
Joined Mar 2004
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The Micro Drake here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ighlight=drake

and here:
http://www.gryffinaero.com/models/ff...ake/index.html

man i wish i could build that light
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 11:04 AM
I NEED a micro seaplane lrf!!!
fabersum's Avatar
Torino
Joined May 2007
323 Posts
hmmm

maybe using one of those little brushless motor - I am thinking about the GoBrushless nano 10 mm - a small plane could have enough thrust?

I remember a nice foam Macchi made from a Japanese: I don't have the link now but I could post it later should you be interested.
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 11:42 AM
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theKM's Avatar
central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
20,223 Posts
I thin it's about power and the surface tension that meatbomber mentioned. The water surface will actually help, but you have to power up on top of it. Think that was the issue with the Micro Drake of Thayers. Actually, the dead smooth water doesn't help seaplanes either, and being in a pool he certainly would have had that... maybe need to make weeny little waves to help out.

I need to try 60% Twinkle again, it will undercut the micro drake by 1 and 3/4 inches
Pretty sure it has a higher power to weight over the Micro Drake which would help ROW's.
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 01:03 PM
If you cant find it Build it!
LONGBIKE's Avatar
NEAR ST. LOUIS ILL. SIDE
Joined Jan 2006
1,526 Posts
Just what is ROW?
Sorry I know this is probley a dumb question but Im new to the waterplane scene and I keep seeing this row everywhere but no descriptions of what it is.

Thanks fellows;
jeff
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 02:00 PM
I NEED a micro seaplane lrf!!!
fabersum's Avatar
Torino
Joined May 2007
323 Posts
R.O.W. means Rise Off Water (if I'm not wrong) as R.O.G. means Rise Off Ground.

If I'm not wrong, I'm still quite a newbie here too :-)
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 02:01 PM
Flutter-Bys are fun
Conehead's Avatar
United States, MI, Honor
Joined Dec 2005
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I believe it means rise off water.

Conehead
Orrin Eldred
Honor, MI
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 02:27 PM
I NEED a micro seaplane lrf!!!
fabersum's Avatar
Torino
Joined May 2007
323 Posts
TheKM, any pics/info about your Twinkle?

Len, what went wrong with the maiden?
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 02:39 PM
G G Ghost Pirates !!!
Vyceroy's Avatar
USA, NC, Gastonia
Joined Dec 2001
8,825 Posts
Check out the JR indoor thread from this past november .. they had some pretty small and light stuff ROW
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 02:40 PM
Square-rigger
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Klatovy, Czech Republic
Joined Mar 2004
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some of the folks said they were using rain-X and similar to break surface tension... good idea (or just soap)
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Old Jan 11, 2008, 02:51 PM
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theKM's Avatar
central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabersum
TheKM, any pics/info about your Twinkle?
60% Twinkle was a victim of circumstances, but I did set up a thread here...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=672170

...and just posted the follow up story in there to keep from clouding this thread.

For original Twinkle, there's my site and a thread, two or three.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 03:03 AM
I NEED a micro seaplane lrf!!!
fabersum's Avatar
Torino
Joined May 2007
323 Posts
TheKM, many compliments for your model.. hope to see the 60% version soon!

Meatbomber, thanks for the suggestion
Vyceroy: could you please point me to the right link for the JR indoor floatplanes? I found just the Drake...

Happy weekend everybody!
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 08:09 AM
Seaplane Nerd
JimCasey's Avatar
Joined Jan 2005
841 Posts
A lot of parameters are affected by scale. You'll probably find that your plane will ROW better if you increase the depth of the step. A "Scale" step will be too small for the water to detach from the hull, and the old demon, surface tension, will have his way with you.
Minimum step I would try is about a centimeter. And be sure that the edge of the step is as sharp as you can make it.
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