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Old Jan 07, 2008, 06:28 PM
Ain't Dutch? Ain't Mutch!
Kimble_Schmitz's Avatar
Southampton, UK
Joined Oct 2001
3,384 Posts
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The long way to Kyiv, Ukraine!

Hi everybody!

My name is Troy McClure, you may remember me from such informational films as ''Corrupted, 17 inch or bigger'' or ''More power is quicker?!''

Right, okey then......

This is going to be a special thread for all you F5B fanatics that have always wanted to fly real F5B but have not mustered up the courage yet. I will be posting my setups, data logs, failure and succes right here. Every big move i make up to and hopefully including the World Championships in Odessa will be covered in this thread.

So if you need some good info on a nice sub F5B or true F5B setup then here is a place to look for it. Also 2.4Ghz installs in a full blown F5B ship.

This will also be a place where i hope to get your usefull comments and alternative ways of doing things for my benefit and that of others reading this thread. So feel free to post what ever you think could help me or others on their way into the class.

Aside from being informative, it's going to be good fun! So remember to enjoy!

Joe
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 06:34 PM
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utcadman's Avatar
USA, UT, Park City
Joined Jul 2006
970 Posts
Thanks look forward to it.
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 06:51 PM
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epwierman's Avatar
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Aug 2004
3,092 Posts
Great.

I'll start with a question for Dave, a friend of mine.

He's setting up a Zoom Race, as his first hotliner.

He'll start with a 3S / 1509 1.5D / CC125 / 16 x 16 RFM wide, then step it up from there with more cells when he's ready.

He needs help with his new 2.4ghz JR X9303 (throttle on switch).

He'll be getting set up here as a user soon, but for now, I'll forward the suggestions.

I don't know this radio at all, so keep it simple and assume I'm a total newbie to JR's and 2.4ghz.

Thanks,

Eric
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 06:57 PM
Ain't Dutch? Ain't Mutch!
Kimble_Schmitz's Avatar
Southampton, UK
Joined Oct 2001
3,384 Posts
So first off, without going to much into history.

My current testing ship is the FVK Absolute. It's task is purely to get some quantative data on various setups and to fiddle with equipment that i can then decide to use in real F5B planes. I have no plans on trying this plane in a competition as i am sure it would be to slow (high camber big fat wing) compared to the others. However, it's got an enourmous fuselage with lots of room so it's easy to put testing equipment in and out without having to re-arrange everything. It is constructed like a tank and will survive pritty much anything i can trow at it. Despite it's handy for transport two piece wing!

Last year to get a little hands on practice on the actual F5B course i went with a revamped second hand F5F ship still using NiMh cells and i suppose i did well with an officially recorded 31 legs on what was my 4th flight on the course ever. Also it was the big test for me of 2.4Ghz radio equipment.

The new year will see me getting two full carbon special ordered Surprise S11+ directly from the old world master him self, Rudolf Freudenthaler. This is a slightly older design but with the new rules and the reduction in flying weight it makes the most sence out of the Surprise series in my mind.

If it all works out, i may get an Avionik before the Worlds but i would not hold your breath on that one. It depends on many things such as me having the finances in place and qualifying to take part in the actual World Championships.

When i have a chance, i will post some pictures of the completely stuffed full of testing equipment Absolute and some video of it doing laps.
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 07:16 PM
Ain't Dutch? Ain't Mutch!
Kimble_Schmitz's Avatar
Southampton, UK
Joined Oct 2001
3,384 Posts
Wow.... you guy's are fast!

Eric, that setup sounds good and as you probably already know, that motor will be fine all the way up to 5S in my limited experience. However for a first hotliner maybe a 15x13 would be more appropriate so he can hand launch without having a perfect launching technique. It's the most used and most usefull prop i have even owned. It is the prop that would like every serious hotliner pilot the have. Just an idea.

Believe it or not but at the moment i am still using my Spektrum DX-7 with great effection and unless i really need the extra functions of the X9303 i won't be getting one any time soon. My S11+ will have no flaps so i only need Spoilerons for landing and not a complicated Crow setup on the radio. If i go for the Avionik then this would pritty much mean the X9303 to go with it. However, i hear the JR X9303 is a fantastic and simple to use radio. Just another evolution of the original 9303 that is renowned for it's user friendly interface and good layout.

One of the important things to watch may be that when Spoilerons or Crow is deployed there still is enouth control movement going on to have adequate roll control. Also when you decide to put the deflections down to 50% in flight by using dual rate. If you forget to take this off before the landing you may run out of roll control and have a fatal accident on the final or base turn. Don't ask me how i know.

Joe
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 07:53 PM
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flying evader's Avatar
United States, TX, Frisco
Joined May 2006
1,371 Posts
looking forward!
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 09:10 PM
Why you swing so hard?
jsnaphook's Avatar
Lake Tahoe
Joined Jun 2006
1,276 Posts
Joe and rest of readers,

Anybody running 1512/1D/6.7 on 5s? If so, any real world numbers? How about prop size? Thanks for any info.

Juan
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 09:25 PM
tic
thunderscreech
tic's Avatar
New Cumberland, PA. US
Joined Dec 2000
10,936 Posts
Eric; Tell him to dump the 16x16 wides.. Most useless prop blades ever... Amp hogs and slow... Either 16x16 narrow or 15x13 (RFM narrow or aeronaut cam carbon) or even 16x13 cam carbon until he works up the nerve.. I just had a conversation w/ Soaring Bob about this and we agreed that the 16x16 wides are not really appropriate for any F5B ish type plane. As far as putting throttle on a switch for JR?... no clue.. I had a hard time doing it on my Futaba 9 channel.. Even called Futaba and they said they'd "never heard" of anyone doing that and asked why on earth I'd want to.
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 09:33 PM
Back in the game
flying evader's Avatar
United States, TX, Frisco
Joined May 2006
1,371 Posts
can we start with the basics?

i.e.
- Latest F5B rules
- Basic strategy (climb to X feet, do X laps, hit throttle, etc)
- etc.
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 10:18 PM
Tragic case
davidleitch's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
5,875 Posts
Basic strategy, from a 37 leg standard competitor.

1. Try and watch someone good. That's hard if you don't live near a competitor but seeing how its done provides information that words and diagrams never can. It will also give you an appreciation of the standard required.

2. Get a model that's reliable and probably a little underpowered to start with.

3. Find a big flying field with room for errors, much easier at the begininng

4. Measure out a 150 metre course and find a landmark at either end, like a tree or bush or something.


5. Find a team mate to launch for you, and help with the timing, counting laps blah blah. You will improve much faster with a team mate /coach.

6. Careful prep before every flight, includes check that all screws properly tightened, surfaces move as expected and power comes on when you expect.

7. Standing at 90 deg to base A, your helper launches, in my case I call "3, 2 power" the team mate starts moving on 3 waits a moment after power is comes on for the torque to be absorbed and then thows the plane fairly hard fairly straight into the wind.

8 Climb with power on for about 3 seconds (assuming you have a moderately competitive power setup). During the power on phase you have to position the plane pretty much parallel to the ground (or perhaps a 20 degree dive) at a height that will enable you to glide for four legs. You also want to have the model 10-30 metres away from you horizontally.The power on phase is the key to the flight and requires by far the most practice. Initially you will be climbing away from the course, the plane will be accelerating and climbing fairly quickly and the final positioning should be precise.

9 Power off as you "enter the course". Then its glide for about 3 seconds, as you get close to Base B, your team mate may call "roll" and you apply aileron, as you hit a line parallel with Base B, or just before it, you pull up elevator, the model swings around and its repeat.

10 After 4 legs the model will/should be about 1-5 metres off the ground as you pass Base A (where you are standing) repower and repeat.
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 10:33 PM
BANNED!!!
soholingo's Avatar
Laurel, MD
Joined May 2001
12,688 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimble_Schmitz
One of the important things to watch may be that when Spoilerons or Crow is deployed there still is enouth control movement going on to have adequate roll control. Also when you decide to put the deflections down to 50% in flight by using dual rate. If you forget to take this off before the landing you may run out of roll control and have a fatal accident on the final or base turn. Don't ask me how i know.

Joe
Joe,

why are you using dual rates? You want your radio set up as simple as possible. I would get a better radio so that when you hit spoilerons you don't need dual rates.

Jay
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 10:53 PM
One Idiot is plenty...
Dbox's Avatar
United States, OR, Portland
Joined Jun 2005
5,259 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidleitch
Basic strategy, from a 37 leg standard competitor.

1. Try and watch someone good. That's hard if you don't live near a competitor but seeing how its done provides information that words and diagrams never can. It will also give you an appreciation of the standard required.

2. Get a model that's reliable and probably a little underpowered to start with.

3. Find a big flying field with room for errors, much easier at the begininng

4. Measure out a 150 metre course and find a landmark at either end, like a tree or bush or something.


5. Find a team mate to launch for you, and help with the timing, counting laps blah blah. You will improve much faster with a team mate /coach.

6. Careful prep before every flight, includes check that all screws properly tightened, surfaces move as expected and power comes on when you expect.

7. Standing at 90 deg to base A, your helper launches, in my case I call "3, 2 power" the team mate starts moving on 3 waits a moment after power is comes on for the torque to be absorbed and then thows the plane fairly hard fairly straight into the wind.

8 Climb with power on for about 3 seconds (assuming you have a moderately competitive power setup). During the power on phase you have to position the plane pretty much parallel to the ground (or perhaps a 20 degree dive) at a height that will enable you to glide for four legs. You also want to have the model 10-30 metres away from you horizontally.The power on phase is the key to the flight and requires by far the most practice. Initially you will be climbing away from the course, the plane will be accelerating and climbing fairly quickly and the final positioning should be precise.

9 Power off as you "enter the course". Then its glide for about 3 seconds, as you get close to Base B, your team mate may call "roll" and you apply aileron, as you hit a line parallel with Base B, or just before it, you pull up elevator, the model swings around and its repeat.

10 After 4 legs the model will/should be about 1-5 metres off the ground as you pass Base A (where you are standing) repower and repeat.
That was ,"The easy part"
Yuri.
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 11:04 PM
ago involo ergo sum
MikeAnderson's Avatar
Kemptville, Ontario, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
413 Posts
Beware overspinning

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnaphook
Anybody running 1512/1D/6.7 on 5s? Juan
The only way you will keep the peak RPM below 60,000 is with a big prop which will draw 300 to 400 amps. On 5S, peak efficiency happens at ~180 A and starts to drop sharply above ~300A.

With a 16x16 prop on 5S, expect peak, (Max velocity) motor RPM to be around 75,000 RPM. Some others have experimented with pushing this motor that fast, but the jury's still out on how many time one can do that.

This is really a 4 cell motor.
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Old Jan 08, 2008, 12:01 AM
Why you swing so hard?
jsnaphook's Avatar
Lake Tahoe
Joined Jun 2006
1,276 Posts
Perfect, Mike. Thanks for saving me money. I like this thread already. Next!

Juan
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Old Jan 08, 2008, 01:24 AM
Back in the game
flying evader's Avatar
United States, TX, Frisco
Joined May 2006
1,371 Posts
Spektrum and F5B

This is how i mounted spektrum receiver on carbon fuse.

6200.. Satellite showing on top and left whisker of main receiver showing (you really have to look for it), right whisker is inside fuse..

Has yet to give me a problem (knock on wood).
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