HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
View Poll Results: Poll Closed
cloled 0 0%
closed 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Thread Tools
Old May 31, 2011, 09:45 AM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
United States, CA, Temecula
Joined Sep 2009
3,463 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Burket View Post
Sorry to drag this back up, as you probably have your answer already, but for the sake of conversation here's my $0.02.

There really isn't a specific weight to use. Just lay the boat over a little like when you adjust the sheets and add weight to the jib boom to kinda balance it out. Most that I have seen are adjustable to account for various wind conditions and sail rigs.

But as with any mod on the Nirvana I'm pretty sure that this isn't allowed by the rules. But if you're like me with the only one in the fleet, than knock yourself out!

Happy tuning,
Dave
Dave
Thank you for your input on the jib counter balance - Are you saying to lean the boat over to either side, to determine the amount of weight needed and the proper extension of the weight it's self away from the tip of the jib boom, necessary to swing the jib to it's fully extended reach? This assumes the servo would have to be fully extended prior to the test to permit the jib to a achieve a fully extended reach with just the force of the weight? Just checking my understanding of your suggestion.
Thank you

Boomer
Boomer1 is offline Find More Posts by Boomer1
Last edited by Boomer1; May 31, 2011 at 09:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old May 31, 2011, 10:36 AM
**NOT GUILTY**
Capt.Crash's Avatar
Millbrook, Alabama
Joined Jun 2004
6,435 Posts
Isn't adding weight way out there going to make her even more nose heavy?
Capt.Crash is offline Find More Posts by Capt.Crash
Reply With Quote
Old May 31, 2011, 11:00 AM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
United States, CA, Temecula
Joined Sep 2009
3,463 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Crash View Post
Isn't adding weight way out there going to make her even more nose heavy?
I am thinking any weight gain forward can be off set with weight gain aft. The amount of weight is so minor it may not make any difference. My thought is that Dennis knows his stuff, so I am not concerned with the bow dive issue. I have that cured with the addition of a little weight aft - as we have chatted about previously.

I would like that jib to swing out without having to jocky the rudder about to get the jib to swing out on down wind runs, like in the picture below.

Was that Vela faster than your Nirvana?

Boomer
Boomer1 is offline Find More Posts by Boomer1
Reply With Quote
Old May 31, 2011, 11:11 AM
**NOT GUILTY**
Capt.Crash's Avatar
Millbrook, Alabama
Joined Jun 2004
6,435 Posts
That is a pic of my boat before I painted the sails...

Yes the Vela is faster...but it is a one meter. The thing I like about it most is the hull shape....no nose diving that sucker....look at the picture above...but there is no choice in color and the sails would have to be replaced to look different too.

Movie is uploading now....should be available shortly...
Capt.Crash is offline Find More Posts by Capt.Crash
Reply With Quote
Old May 31, 2011, 11:44 AM
**NOT GUILTY**
Capt.Crash's Avatar
Millbrook, Alabama
Joined Jun 2004
6,435 Posts
Here ya go...

MMBC Sail 5/28/2011 (4 min 45 sec)
Capt.Crash is offline Find More Posts by Capt.Crash
Reply With Quote
Old May 31, 2011, 12:05 PM
SOCIAL CLUB MEMBER
chidago's Avatar
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Dec 2009
6,674 Posts
bout time....
chidago is online now Find More Posts by chidago
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old May 31, 2011, 12:12 PM
SOCIAL CLUB MEMBER
chidago's Avatar
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Dec 2009
6,674 Posts
AAAAH.. now that was good

Me, I like the sport fish..that tug is nice, should get that new smoke machine from dave..

Thanks Crash!!

Vela should be faster, bigger, plus way more sail..

chidago is online now Find More Posts by chidago
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old May 31, 2011, 03:06 PM
Registered User
Danville, IN
Joined Apr 2008
375 Posts
I thought I'd check in if for no other reason than to let everyone know I was reading the posts and "trying" to learn something new. Other wise I'm the 'newbie' mentioned back on page 90, post 1339, who is in on the Nirvana charity lottery, when ever it gets off the ground.

In the mean time I am reading a book I bought almost a year ago only because I like buying books about boats. It's title is "Build your own Radio-Controlled Yacht", the complete step-by-step modeling guide and "Includes Full-size Hull and Sail Patterns" (Whew) Specs on the boat are 30.25"L x 6.75"B x 54"H x 12.75" Draught (spelling in the book - British); Sail Area 387 sq in, max keel length 8", Max bulb weight 2.9 lbs.

With all that said, have any of you built this model or had any experience with it? Since the book was published in 2006 the possibilities of any of you 'old' salts having built this one is slim to none but one (or more) of you may have run across one of these models over the past five years or talked to someone who knows something about it

After reading the instructions, I think I can increase the OAL by 1.75" and maybe be allowed to compete with the V32's which are running in the club I belong to, the Indy Admirals. It was being frustrated trying to sail aV32 that has me basically 'hooked' on wanting a sailing ship and as I told 'chidago', I may be the "lucky" bumpkin who wins the lottery.

All thoughts, suggestions are welcomed.

Bob
rblubaugh is offline Find More Posts by rblubaugh
Reply With Quote
Old May 31, 2011, 04:35 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
2,138 Posts
Bob -

here in the States, it doesn't fit any "recognized racing" design class. Closest is 36" with 600 inches of sail area. On the smaller side is the RG65 at about 25.5 inches LOA.

Might be some from the UK that would know if there is a class over there if it is a UK published book. Other than AMYA here in US, there may be "recreational sailors" that may have built one, that aren't associated with AMYA - and may know know of these forums.
Dick L. is offline Find More Posts by Dick L.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2011, 10:45 AM
Registered User
seefest's Avatar
United States, MA, Bristol
Joined Sep 2009
1,561 Posts
Here's a link to Lester Gilbert's RC yacht design site. Its focus is on IOM's but much of the content is valid for all classes of yachts. There's a section on jib counterweights there as well. I think it's under the "build" tab. http://onemetre.net/index.htm
seefest is offline Find More Posts by seefest
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2011, 12:27 PM
SOCIAL CLUB MEMBER
chidago's Avatar
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Dec 2009
6,674 Posts
Thanks, See, there has to be a ratio I'm thinkin to get the right weight amount?

chidago is online now Find More Posts by chidago
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2011, 04:03 PM
SOCIAL CLUB MEMBER
chidago's Avatar
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Dec 2009
6,674 Posts
Here is a copy of the jib weight stuff on the link..


John Thomson asked me about the jib counter-weight. I scratched my head and scraped the following paragraphs together.

As I understand it, the counter-weight is needed in light air to allow the jib to goose-wing on the run, and to set well on a reach. If there is no chance of light air, you don't need the counter-weight. If there is even the slightest chance of the wind dying for a while, you'll get killed without a counter-weight.

Most skippers set up their counter-weight to balance the jib boom. That is, they hold the hull horizontally (lie it on the floor), and set the counter-weight so that the jib boom aligns with the centre line no matter which side the hull is resting on. That is tricky, in that the boom almost always favours one side over another. It has something to do with the topping lift attachment point on the jibstay, and any twist in the jibstay.

Some skippers set up the counter-weight so that it doesn't quite counter-balance the boom -- so the boom always tends to sag towards the centre line. One of their theories is that they can then "throw" the boat into a gybe, and the weight and momentum of the boom will swing the jib over as required.

Me, I set up the counter-weight so that it slightly over-balances the boom. I have to watch out that it doesn't extend beyond the bows here; that'll take the boat out of measurement. With this setup, the jib is always pulling very lightly against the sheet, no matter what the wind. My theory is that this gives me positive control over the jib at all times.

Another thought on the counterweight is that its size and projection from the boom will depend on your jib pivot offset, and the boom material. I have found that running a 15% pivot offset, instead of the more usual 20% to 25% on an IOM, and using a non-arrow shaft (ie non-lightweight) boom, I could not get the boom (legally) balanced with the heaviest counterweight I had, 35 grams... These were drifting conditions, so reducing the pivot offset to 20% wasn't a problem. But it is time to reconsider whether I should not be using an arrow-shaft boom.

If your fellow-skippers are leaving their counter-weights off, you will want to be confident that their boats still measure. If I took my 25 gm counter-weight off, I'd have an illegal boat immediately, about 20 gm under weight...


chidago is online now Find More Posts by chidago
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2011, 04:23 PM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
United States, CA, Temecula
Joined Sep 2009
3,463 Posts
John
Thanks for posting this information. I was just trying to find it on the link "seafeast" provided. I would like to know from Dennis how he arrived at the particular weight he used, and if he went through any of the balancing process referenced in the report by/from Lester Gilbert.

The meat of this report (to me) rests in the two paragraphs I have copied and pasted in below. This information was authored by Lester Gilbert

"the counter-weight is needed in light air to allow the jib to goose-wing on the run, and to set well on a reach. If there is no chance of light air, you don't need the counter-weight."

"I set up the counter-weight so that it slightly over-balances the boom. I have to watch out that it doesn't extend beyond the bows here; that'll take the boat out of measurement. With this setup, the jib is always pulling very lightly against the sheet, no matter what the wind. My theory is that this gives me positive control over the jib at all times."

Very interesting stuff. This is a great thread for gaining new knowledge.
Boomer1 is offline Find More Posts by Boomer1
Last edited by Boomer1; Jun 01, 2011 at 04:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2011, 07:49 PM
Registered User
Danville, IN
Joined Apr 2008
375 Posts
I've read parts of Lester Gilbert's report (?) and some makes a little sense and most does not; of course I'm a newbie. Thankfully there are you captains who do understand things like "jib counter weight' and using Mr. Gilberts information have explained it such that even I understand. Applying it is another question.

One thing I can tell you for sure is that the pond where I often run my power boats is often befallen of what I think is "light air" or "nearly dead calm" because the pond is basically in a shallow basin. My first attempt at sailing was frustrated by these 'calm' situation and the lack of knowledge of what to do about them - except to sit and wait for a breeze - then I still didn't know what to do to make full benefit of the light breeze.

Bob
rblubaugh is offline Find More Posts by rblubaugh
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2011, 11:35 PM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
United States, CA, Temecula
Joined Sep 2009
3,463 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblubaugh View Post
I've read parts of Lester Gilbert's report (?) and some makes a little sense and most does not; of course I'm a newbie. Thankfully there are you captains who do understand things like "jib counter weight' and using Mr. Gilberts information have explained it such that even I understand. Applying it is another question.

One thing I can tell you for sure is that the pond where I often run my power boats is often befallen of what I think is "light air" or "nearly dead calm" because the pond is basically in a shallow basin. My first attempt at sailing was frustrated by these 'calm' situation and the lack of knowledge of what to do about them - except to sit and wait for a breeze - then I still didn't know what to do to make full benefit of the light breeze.

Bob
Bob
Sounds like you could use a good park flyer RC plane to fill in on those occasions when there is no wind to power your sailboat.

RC flying is great fun, and just one more thing do on a nice day at the pond.

Boomer
Boomer1 is offline Find More Posts by Boomer1
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Vixen yacht. chidago Sailboats 1 Mar 01, 2013 02:58 PM