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Old Feb 17, 2013, 07:21 PM
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United States, IL, Chicago
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LOL..

Breaks you heart, huh? you know where I'm at..ALWAYS a open door..
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 08:08 PM
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Joined Aug 2002
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It is my personal opinion, that the attached document effective in 2010 establishes what is expected from a class secretary. Since the AMYA is given the responsibility to oversee all r/c sailing activity in the U.S. (as the National Authority) by US Sailing the document lays out what is expected, what you can request (income/expenditures) and how rules can be changed.

Because you don't agree with them in whole or in part is not an issue. Just like when the Olympic Committee challenged the "Olympic Class One Meter" over use of the word "Olympic" - so too can the AMYA challenge any event billing itself as a "National Championship" if it isn't sponsored or recognized by the AMYA.

I have had my own issues in the past with the AMYA management, mainly over membership requirements in the RG-65 Class. I also, don't own a Nirvana. It is just a bit of education that I pass on to whomever is attempting to make changes - regardless of how the current issues became part of the class. To whomever - best of luck making the desired/recommended/supported changes as you will find it becomes a multi-headed "monster".

I would suggest you (someone) post an email to BOTH class secretaries asking for an accounting of dues/memberships received, expenses paid, the current balance of the account, and proof of a separate bank account for the class. Copy Dave Brawner (AMYA President) so he is aware of the formal request. May also want to copy John Skerry (AMYA Treasurer) and maybe even a copy to your AMYA Regional Director. 30 Days would be a reasonable amount of time for a volunteer to get his records together along with a copy of the bank statement. You can make the attachment a check list to see what is and what isn't being done on your behalf.

As noted above - Good Luck on your endeavor.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:53 AM
**NOT GUILTY**
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Millbrook, Alabama
Joined Jun 2004
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Thanks Dick...

...for the insight.

I was trying to move this thread back to more enjoyable things by posting a new movie, but it found it's way back to this place again... so let me make my thoughts perfectly clear.

It is not about the few dollars that passed through the Class Secretary's hands, and with such low membership, it can't be more than $100.00 over the past few years.

I'm not accusing anyone of theft.

My problem is the principle of the thing. That money is supposed to be used in the "ADMINISTRATION" of the duties and pay for the expenses of those duties. What does it cost to mail a little hand written piece of paper (the boat registration slip) to someone? A dollar or less....so where does the rest go. It sure isn't the National Regattas he's NOT supported. The same goes for all Classes...is that registration fee really being used the way it was intended? Is $7.00 too much?

Mr. Leathers calls the registration fee a "DONATION" to pay for his website, Research & Developement, etc. This is a One Design Class....what is R&D needed for? Is this the way the fees are meant to be used?

Some of the duties of the Class Secretary are to be sure there is a National Regatta every year as well as write an article every quarter to be published in the AMYA Magazine. When was he last time you saw a article about the Nirvana? Last ones I remember were written years ago by Steve Lang and myself.

The biggest problem is the division of the Class and members Mr. Leathers has brought about by going off and changing rules and adding new sails...etc...with out the blessing of the manufacturer or the majority of the owners. Only 27 boat owners are AMYA registered....27 of thousands...so a very few are dictating changes to a ONE DESIGN RACING RULE that is causing problems for everyone else that has stuck to the manufacturers rules. So how are we supposed to race each other? Which rules do we use?

That is why I want to put this Class back together.

I think AMYA, in whole, is a good thing and I want to work with them to make AMYA and this Class of boats more friendly to us the sailors. We can't have all the confusion and animosity...it isn't good for anything or anyone.

Crash
Head Pirate, Montgomery Model Boat Club
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 07:49 AM
Yosef Sailor
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Singapore, Singapore
Joined Jul 2011
513 Posts
Here here!

Well said El Capitan! Well said.

Now back to the movie!

In the words of the late Rodney King......"can't we all just get along"

And with that, I am off to Korea for the week. I will welcome the cold weather as it has been a hot muggy 29c (high 80's) here today and I need a break from the heat.

Don't believe someone when they say you get used to the heat. They are lying.

You'll have a good one.

David

Ps. I'll, did you receive my responding email a couple of weeks ago? The email on this site has been doing crazy things lately.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:06 AM
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Dick, the amya TOOK the authority to oversee classes..it has no atuthority..Nirvana is stand alone..everything Crash is saying is true..leathers split the group..how do you think he got there?

Crash is running BECAUSE of it, as I have ZERO interest in the amya, and will remain that way..
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:19 AM
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Crash is correct..the bad taste of politics is making the thread boring.

Enough of it, vote. all the yappin just inflames, as politics do..get the correct info, make your choice, and vote..
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 10:30 AM
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Minnesota, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chidago View Post
Dick, the amya TOOK the authority to oversee classes..it has no atuthority..Nirvana is stand alone..everything Crash is saying is true..leathers split the group..how do you think he got there?

Crash is running BECAUSE of it, as I have ZERO interest in the amya, and will remain that way..
Like it or not - the AMYA "followed" it's own rules of how the class secretary remained. NO ONE ran against him - and incumbents are automatically placed on the ballot. If you want no part of the AMYA that is your (and my) decision, BUT at the same time, if Lang "wanted" to be CS, he could have/should have been nominated. Remember, the AMYA has it's classes and it's class secretaries. I would guess that long before the Nirvana became popular, the class made up of at least 20 AMYA members became established and recognized.

Unfortunately, if this topic is too "toxic" to discuss, change won't happen, and you can b**ch all you want. Owners can be renegades if they want - but nothing will become of their good intentions if they don't join the AMYA to vote. The AMYA (in general) simply follows it's own rules and the class members select their own Class Secretary by ballot/vote. A long time ago, I believe I suggested similar, so if the guy who is presently a non-performing class secretary, just have any other class member step in a run against him. From comments here, it seems there are a lot of issues the current secretary "should" be doing ---- but isn't. Finally, if you don't get thjs out in the open, addressed and corrected, you will continue to see and hear the same issues.

added: Interesting that the Laser class is also a manufacturer's class but doesn't seem to have this problem. Just an observation.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 11:01 AM
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Agreed..ther laser has had no problems..AND, if we can get Crash in, neither will Nirvana..
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 11:37 AM
Boomer1
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United States, CA, Temecula
Joined Sep 2009
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Crash - well stated!
Let's say there were 50 new registrations sent in, 50 x $7 = $350.00 under the current AMYA policy this total theoretical sum will given to the current AMYA Nirvana CS.

I just just did an "mock" registration of 50 new boats, logging them in an EXCEL spread sheet and sending out 50 mock acknowledgement forms to those 50 hypothetical individuals. It took me less than an hour. It took about 10 minutes to set up the spread sheet and about 5 minutes to draft an acknowledgement form letter. Call it an hour and a half invested including drinking some coffee. If there were 50 more applications or 75 more it wouldn't take but a few mins. to process each additional registration.

If the current CS had done any of the activities or carried out the duties outlined in Crash's post, he might have incurred expenses that would merit his reimbursement of some, or perhaps all of the balance of the theoretical $350.00.

The issue I have is - from what we have seen, those things were not done and then those funds that he'd be getting would become a "wind fall" profit to him - Keep in mind the AYMA is a non-profit organization. Being a CS is not a paid position.

History of past behavior is considered one of the best tools to predict future behavior. To date, we can see little evidence/hope of this individual doing those things in the future, were he to be re-elected or whatever it was that got him in the position in the first place.

I personally contacted Mr. Leathers to invite him to joint us to help in bringing the two groups together. I posted my letter to him and his response to me last year. I don't know the man - I'd like to think he has the greater good in mind, but thus far his actions don't yield evidence to indicate that to be the case.

I don't think it is right that he or anyone be payed for services not rendered. That is the point. $7.00 in and of itself is not a lot, but times 50 or 100 it becomes a different issue. For that kind of pay, I will come out of retirement!

My point - the AMYA policy in this scenario is in my view flawed and a more responsible procedure needs to be created and implemented to insure funds like these do not become a profit center for any one individual. The AMYA is not well funded and could use these funds for the greater good. My opinion. I have seen improvement in the handling the association funds under the current leadership, which is why I am hopeful a change in this policy might be considered.

Boomer
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:01 PM
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Joined Jan 2008
679 Posts
Politics of any group or club or hobby... always a 'fun' thing... How about I swing this back to something more positive... Any news on this new 'u-bute' sailboat that was being discussed here a few pages back...

Surely we can all agree that it is cool to discuss and or see some info on 'new toys' . . .
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:28 PM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
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Joined Apr 2007
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Fun ? How about funny !!! I just hit the ground laughing. A Rodney King quote all the way from Singapore. Mr Watson you just made my day !!!
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:44 AM
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Joined Feb 2013
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Good evening from Chumphon southern Thailand, just introducing myself I am a lone sailor here but a stock Nirvana is sailing or has been sailing here since January on a our large lake at my college. I have put about 20 hours on her so far in conditions ranging from scorching and light wind to scorching and 16knot winds ( she took a bit of a battering that day) I intend to change the servos in the next few months to cope with the coming breezy monsoon but she is going great just out of the box!
I may need to change the rigging lines what do you suggest fishing line is available here can I just use that also I plan to move house next to the beach In a few months so I will need to prepare the boat for a salt water baptism
Anyway hallo and the thread makes nice reading
Andy
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 07:28 AM
Yosef Sailor
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Singapore, Singapore
Joined Jul 2011
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Chumphon,

1st let me say greetings from Singapore and great to hear about the Nirvana. I have mine and try to sail it much as possible here.

In regards to upgrading the rigging line, there are many options out on the market. Many have used dyneema or a good fishing braid that will not stretch.

I would suggest do a search within the thread and see what others have responded. There is a ton of information on the site and it is available for all.

Post some photos of your boat.

David
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 08:30 AM
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Thanks David Singapore

Cheers off to Bangkok tomorrow so I will browse around other than that will search fishing shops near here of which there are plenty ....photos to come when I learn how to drive the website
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 08:46 AM
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on a calm day in chumphon

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