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Old May 14, 2008, 08:02 PM
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Airdrie, AB Canada
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When I tested this in March the high cells stopped perfectly, which leads to VERY long charge times (and is safe and proper) when charger multiple packs on a port. This is the same as having an extremely unbalanced 6s pack. I've witnessed the same thing numerous times on subsequent charges.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=526

It doesn't make any difference how far of an imbalance I introduce or how fast I charge. NO Cells ever go beyond 4.25. Whether that is true for the 610i or not I cannot say... but the DUO works correctly. Current gets reduced way before overall pack voltage reaches 25.2 on 6s, if necessary.

Btw this is the reason they had to modify sync mode as it wasn't allowing the low cells to charge at a fast enough rate, imho.

P.S I'll take some pictures for ya if I get a chance, Coro.

Mike
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Old May 14, 2008, 08:13 PM
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Coro,

Regardless of what I tell you or show you you appear to have it set in your mind that the NET and or DUO are bad chargers, so be it.

I think that you have a faulty charger that you ran your tests on, I believe my DUO it functioning as Hyperion intended. I'm also sure that if I or anyone else throws a large enough imbalance at it problems could arise. That doesn't make it a bad charger but it does make for a bad or ignorant operator.

Some people delight in finding fault or causing things to fail, others merely want to use the equipment they have in a safe and productive manner. So for me the Hyperion line of chargers are fit for my purpose, other people may have a different opinion.

Photo's below show Voltage just after entering CV stage and maximum single cell voltage, take from them what you will.

Mike
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Old May 14, 2008, 08:16 PM
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Mr. Jam, my experience mirrors yours. But, that and 5 cents won't buy you a cup of coffee, anywhere.
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Old May 14, 2008, 08:58 PM
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Fig I don't think your assessment of Coro is quite right. He is a very knowledgable and experienced person in this domain and I don't think he has any agenda other than identifying the actual behaviour rather than the claimed behaviour. He has clearly acknowledged that the 0610i chargers behave very well in normal circumstances but is questioning the behaviour of the NET model in the case of a large enough imbalance that a single cell gets driven above an acceptable threshold. Clearly on his unit it has happened. On your DUO in your experience it has not, which is certainly encouraging. It seems that all that remains is to determine if Coro's is a faulty unit (does not appear so to my reading of the information provided) or there is a flaw in the firmware that means it does not terminate (or modulate) the charge current if *any* lipo cell under *any* conditions ever exceeds an acceptable value (eg 4.235V). I am testing some other chargers at the moment and they clearly exhibit this limiting behaviour.
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Old May 14, 2008, 09:38 PM
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Regina, SK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coro
Please, can You explain what exactly happened?

The point of difference is clear :
What voltage was overall pack at the moment that charger started to reduce current?

My question is whether it is possible that the current started to reduce at 12.6V overall and then the cells were at 4.25, 4.17, 4.18 (sumary is 12.6).
In this case, Your test says nothing.
In case that overall volts were less than 12.6 and the current was reduced, it means for example 12.3V and the cells at 4.25, 4.02, 4.03, it means that DUO has different, better firmware.
Please tell us.
The balancer has at least one bug I know of. I've posted my findings here and either nobody cared or they didn't believe me. Well I will post a video tonight and you can see all for yourself.

Rob
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Old May 14, 2008, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fig Jam
Coro,

Regardless of what I tell you or show you you appear to have it set in your mind that the NET and or DUO are bad chargers, so be it.

I think that you have a faulty charger that you ran your tests on, I believe my DUO it functioning as Hyperion intended. I'm also sure that if I or anyone else throws a large enough imbalance at it problems could arise. That doesn't make it a bad charger but it does make for a bad or ignorant operator.

Some people delight in finding fault or causing things to fail, others merely want to use the equipment they have in a safe and productive manner. So for me the Hyperion line of chargers are fit for my purpose, other people may have a different opinion.

Photo's below show Voltage just after entering CV stage and maximum single cell voltage, take from them what you will.

Mike
Dear Mike,

I did believe in newest Hyperion chargers quality, and I did suggest 0610i as a best value for money charger everywhere, including my close friends..
However, right the first and second tests of the basic safety of the first such charger i can test personally, both failed! I got very confused.

I will ignore Your personal attacks, there is pure technical problem and I dont care about personal love and hate feelings.
If You think that I am a man paid by any competitor to blame Hyperion chargers, or anyhow else personally interested to say that they are bad, then You are simply wrong.
Each of us who cares, can simply list all of the posts that any nick here did ever post, to see his behavior clearly.
I took heaps of photos and there are also data logs and graphs provided on the link I have posted above, so I hope that I am not suspect of laying.

Your test, as described here and pictures attached, show nothing at all. Overall voltage is already above 12.6V and it is the reson to enter CV phase for any charger, and thus the voltage rises no more, of course.
The another test of another pack, that I have run right now, finished with the result equal to Yours - 200mAh was simply not enough difference, to push a cell above 4.25V, the max voltage I have seen was 4.24V - but it says nothing, that test was simply insufficient and it have to be repeated with higher difference.
EDIT: Here is charge graph, all data are on the link posted above: http://www.topgun.sk/downloads/Jozo/...A/yt15u_ok.gif


However, another Mike, mjws, posted very clearly that DUO is behaving differently than the "single" 0610i.
I hope that it is clear that my charger is NOT DUO ! it is SINGLE 0610i, brand new and purchased from reputable distributor here.
Common features, name and the overall design make me think that those charger behave equally. Now I (and all the readers) haev to see that it is not the true.

There is no reason to suspect my charger of being damaged. It measures, charges and also balances very good, and the whole problem I opened has nothing in common with the hardware. Just firmware.
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Old May 14, 2008, 09:45 PM
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I'm sure Coro has forgotten more about Chargers and Lipo's than I will ever learn BUT the way he worded his post/s is just downright wrong! It came across to me as sensationalism and he's out of order making blanket statements regarding safety (especially as it's not even a DUO) after testing only one unit.

When I ran my test the high cell voltage stayed within tolerance even when the DUO was pumping in more than 4 amps, and no the balance circuit isn't going to be able to bleed away that much current therefore the charging circuit must be doing it's job. This contradicts what Coro had stated in his posts.

I have no axe to grind with anyone, especially Coro. My post is merely a counterpoint to his.

Mike
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Old May 14, 2008, 10:20 PM
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Regina, SK
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...nm
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Old May 14, 2008, 11:14 PM
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Scintillating! But, what does it mean?
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Old May 14, 2008, 11:18 PM
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Airdrie, AB Canada
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Just to remove all doubt that the balancing works correctly on the DUO. Here is a graph of a hugely imbalanced 6s pack.

Starting imbalance 0.7V. The charge was conducted at 2C (4.4A). As you can see the charger quickly decreases current once the high cells reach 4.25. Long before a regular CCCV charger would reduce due to hitting the CV stage. It will then hold them nearly indefinitely while trying to get the voltage up on the remaining cells. I stopped logging at 40 min but have let it go over 2hrs to test. The last set of voltages is at rest after charge termination it shows pretty clearly what Dave mentioned about there being a slightly high display voltage (~.02V) high while charging.

The pics are chronological, and show the charge time, change in voltages, over all voltage, current, gap etc... I know they are a little tough to see, but this is a difficult charger to take good pictures of the display with my camera. I know there is a lot of data in the images, skip them if detail bores you.

It functions perfectly as far as I am concerned.

Mike
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Old May 15, 2008, 12:03 AM
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Nice work Mike, Thanks for the effort.

Normal programming will resume shortly, Mike
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Old May 15, 2008, 12:10 AM
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Slovakia
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next graph from single 0610i net

Next graph that have been recorded right now.
This is my final info-post regarding this problem, there is nothing more to talk about. (I will answer any questions of course).

Damaged cell was used together with 3s pack of the same type cells (Yuntong 1500mAh 15C). Poor test cell have to leave my house fast.
But this situation can be pretty real, there is nothing extraordinary to damage lipo cell in a pack during flight/crash/storage..

My SINGLE 0610i NET charger needs new, fixed firmware, just as all those Yours single 0610i chargers...
This problem is not regarding the 0610i DUO at all.

Here are the data, graph and heap of photos:
http://www.topgun.sk/downloads/index...rst&COL=&ORD=0

I have started another thread about single 0610i net, as we found that problem does not belong into DUO thread. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=864126
Attached one:
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Old May 15, 2008, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fig Jam
Nice work Mike, Thanks for the effort.

Normal programming will resume shortly, Mike
Well, it appears that only one branch of the family is "suspicious."
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Old May 15, 2008, 09:41 AM
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Hello Everyone,

I am very interested in this charger. I can't seem to find this in the manual, but what is the max charge rate for Pb batteries? I want to be able to recharge my 12V 115Ah deep cycle field battery with it, is this even possible/practical on the Duo?

Thanks!
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Old May 15, 2008, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsixer
Hello Everyone,

I am very interested in this charger. I can't seem to find this in the manual, but what is the max charge rate for Pb batteries? I want to be able to recharge my 12V 115Ah deep cycle field battery with it, is this even possible/practical on the Duo?

Thanks!
Gees, how many amps do want to charge it at? I usually charge mine overnight at about 1 amp.
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