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Old Jan 16, 2008, 06:25 PM
The Predator
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Golden, Colorado
Joined Dec 2004
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Even WITHOUT the scuffing that was my BEST paint test on the outside of the covering! I definitely pested the manufacturer on that as you suggest so, now I could only look else where and just make sure any other manufacturer uses the same adhesive on any colored stuff.
The clear sure is EASY to build with since you can see EVERYTHING, including the adhesive activating but, MAN I did a colored Pink and black thinned gooped Bee in a combp of coverings (light stiff top and heavy tough bottom). It seems sweet and tight as a drum BUT, MAN is it UGLY! Reminds me of last call at the BAR. She might not be the HOTTEST but, I'll bet she can REALLY GET IT DONE!
Now slap me your address Chris! Remember how I built up and tested those cores you generouly gave me? I'd LOVE to return the favor mister build pioneer! Give me a hand and make a new world record E-SPEED ship while you're at it!
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Old Jan 16, 2008, 09:03 PM
C'mon more Energy
Swoopdown's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Mar 2005
3,254 Posts
All this talk about colouring under the covering is giving me a head ache..
I cant see whats wrong with cheep enamel over the top. When it gets scuffed up and starts to peel off. Hit it again witha $2 rattle can. Cheep, easy, looks good (till you bash it). I certainly wouldnt mind giving mine a bit of a respray now and again to keep it looking OK. I cant wait to get my "stuff" to give it a go.
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Old Jan 16, 2008, 09:43 PM
AvB
Wind, hill, ... I'm keen ...
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Australia, QLD, Woody Point
Joined Nov 2006
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Michael I used some cheap enamel on laminating film which I covered the Reaper fin with and it wasn't the best. It took about 10 light coats to get a good solid colour, pretty thick. Then after a month or so it was rubbing off like powder on my hand. Perhaps a coat of lacquer over it would help? But also perhaps the more expensive acrylic spray cans would work excellently. A panelbeater told me that for car touchups just use cheap enamel on the normal panels but you need acrylic on the plastic bumpers.
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Old Jan 16, 2008, 10:03 PM
C'mon more Energy
Swoopdown's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Mar 2005
3,254 Posts
Thanks Andrew for the heads up. I might do a bit of playing around to get something that works but it would surely have to be an easier method than trying to colour the foam first.
I might just settle for some stickers. Im not one for needing a pretty model just fast and strong!
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Old Jan 16, 2008, 10:10 PM
Registered DSer
Kahnx's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Hadfield
Joined Mar 2003
2,892 Posts
Here here, Swoop.

Bring it on

Kahn
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Old Jan 16, 2008, 10:39 PM
Plane dodger
KillerAir's Avatar
Stratford Sikorsky, Connecticut, United States
Joined Dec 2001
6,715 Posts
The lam sheets I get are polyester based films designed for covering large cprints and very little if anything sticks to it well. You could try and use a binding primer before topcoating with color. Back in the day when we (graphic artists) worked on laminates we would have to prep and treat the film before appling color. But this was never ment to be man handled like a sloper.
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Old Jan 16, 2008, 10:55 PM
Throw Caution to the Wind
Lavawing's Avatar
Grand Junction, Colorado
Joined Feb 2004
2,651 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
The downside is added weight. Which begs the question, what's the lightest
opaque iron on covering available?

ian
I have some So-lite, a.k.a. Nelson Lite. I don't remember where I got it. I could cut off a foot or so if you're just doing trim and send it your way. Or mail you both rolls if you want and pick up the leftover at the WCSC or something.

It's very light and almost completely opaque. It's so light it's hard to get the layers separated, and it'll stick to the back of itself very easily. I've used it on my Spinner tail and Alula elevons. Red and (your favorite color) yellow.

The disadvantage I anticipate is that it's so thin it won't look good over bare EPP, so kinda kicks some of the advantages away. Not sure about the overall adhesion of the final product. But that's what testing is all about.

--Greg
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Old Jan 17, 2008, 11:55 AM
The Predator
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Golden, Colorado
Joined Dec 2004
3,565 Posts
I think Swoop and I have ALOT in common
I share his feelings totally but, I do understand there are more artistic people/pilots in the world who's ships last long enough for the added art work to be worth it and or have freindlier sites to crash at! As a VERY ACTIVE and WILD ACRO DS pilot in a ROCKY place, my ships just do not last long enough to do that extra work and this covering is MY DREAM since replacing those ships is cheap and fast too! I doubt my philosophy is the norm though.
External Acrylic was a suggestion from the factory engineer! I should have mentioned that above but, I was still thinking about protected color underneath as the very best. After coloring some foam to turn it REAL UGLY, I'm with swoop. Nice work AvB. That should stick the best though still scratch-able on rocky skidding landings and such. Likely better then abraded Mono-Koat though.
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Old Jan 17, 2008, 12:17 PM
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Salida, Colorado
Joined Sep 2002
884 Posts
Greg and Ian: Nelson Lite is the one I have used...on my Alula. The label on the roll got lost over the years. I'll give it an adhesion test, first on the OUTSIDE of the laminating film, as that detours around using thinned Goop. It really shrinks well, so could cover the laminating film on the tips and reduce the bumps, etc. I did a fruitless search to find Nelson Lite.

There is also Coverite Microlite film, available all sorts of places (e g Tower Hobbies).

You can also use Low-Temperature Polycover and Low-Temperature Lightweight Transparent Polycover...both lighter than standard films and with a low temp adhesive activation that makes them ideal for applying over laminating film. They're from Hobby-Lobby.
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Old Jan 17, 2008, 12:26 PM
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fooesboy's Avatar
Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined Oct 2005
658 Posts
Hey Karl,

You should try a rattle can from the Tamiya's PS range, it is made for the plastic RC car bodies and there for it has to stay flexible otherwise it would just flake off every time the car had an accident. Scuff the surface with some scotch-brite and clean well with alcohol before applying. The colors have a very good covering ability although quite expensive!

I am watching this thread with great interest!

Good luck!

Chris
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Old Jan 17, 2008, 12:34 PM
The Predator
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Golden, Colorado
Joined Dec 2004
3,565 Posts
Bit more blabber- and PICS

I have been tesing different covering combos, reinforcements and addressing color issues. Here's the latest on a Bee, molded foam.
I use the new Plastic ply light on the top surface, ran it long over the sub TE to try and get it to be a whiper too for a bottom mount tape hinge! John's idea. After screwing that up I did figure up a way to actually make that work using a router to straighten the TE with a depth finder to avoid trimming off the whipper. I thought I could just do it with a blade, wrongo! Then I used the BCH heavy conforming on the bottom surface to make it tough. Using molded foam lead me to apply some strapping tape reinforcements as well since it sticks perfect on molded foam without any additional adhesives. I strapping taped the whole underside LE with one stip of Ming 3" strapping tape and wrapped it 3/4" over the LE for complete protection where almost ALL BIG impacts occur. I also used 1" strapping tape X 10" to form the X pattern ass straps to hold that shut in the event of the ALL OUT DIVING nose-in/DS screw-up! I have split two bees basically in half recently, I was pretty worried when my Balisti covered bee took the news HARD, it was dead after a MEGA DS nose-in meeting a rock. The next day I did the same with a classic Predator Bee build with similar results. In conclusive duribility with that data. I need combat testing and we have not had good conditions for tha much lately.
Anyway, I wanted to show you guys how the spray paint in thinned goop went down under the covering. The bright color on white foam is not bad, even brighter where the molded foam was cut to release it from its mold(little brighter pink circles), I expect our typical cut epp to look like that. Then I did the underside in black, YUCKO! You need a THICK coat to cover white foam with black color and molded foam really can not even carry that much thinned goop being skinned and all. So far my Bee build evolution with this covering is going as illustrated. Tis build balance PERFECTLY at 8 3/4". I WANT my builds a tad tail heavy since they all gain nose weight as life/ huge crashes slow edge the CG forward. I would recomend similar at this point but, I DEFINITELY need to do more testing in several areas and am DIEING for a bunch of NEW proto wire cut EPP cores to show up for that. I think that is where this new covering is THE BEST. Amazing how just last year I was SURE that NOTHING would ever be able to be as light as molded foam. I know that's not true already but duribility is still under testing. For any real ugly non combat ship, this stuff has no rival in my mind. As spring comes and combat season gets going I'll have the combat application all figured out as well! It is actually tougher since part of that job is deducing from crashes what needs improvment. It alot easier to just look up at a, say plank, and say "ya, that thing ROCKs" then testing duribility on a combat ship.
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Old Jan 17, 2008, 04:23 PM
AvB
Wind, hill, ... I'm keen ...
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Australia, QLD, Woody Point
Joined Nov 2006
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Yeah Swoopdown and Predator we're on the same team there! If I have the choice between durable ugly, and pretty but less durable, I'll pick the ugly one for sure. It's my total aim, then if I can pretty up the durable thingy, fair enough! When you're as bad a flyer as me it's the natural evolution!

That's right about the Tamiya paint; I'm pretty sure that would work well. When I extensively repaired the wing on my thinskinned glass Minij wing, it had vast areas of epoxy/microballoons and I used the Tamiya paint and it's still strong. Great stuff, but expensive. I think it was $12 ? for a little tin, and I used it all doing the repaired patches, so it you'd use 2 or 3 tins on a full wing, I think.

But for me, I'd be quite happy just using strips of the normal colour tape, over this stuff. You can iron over colour tape. Not so with signwriting vinyl ... it melts at temps which shrink Profilm/ Monokote, so if you have to do repairs, iron out wrinkles, etc you have to peel off the signwriting vinyl. And that's the second drawback with the vinyl - it sticks so well that it can be a real pain to get it off. Plus if it gets minor scratches etc it tears into little strips.
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Old Jan 17, 2008, 05:21 PM
Where is the inspiration
wdeighton's Avatar
Moira
Joined Feb 2006
825 Posts
Flaming and primer

With regards painting.
Car Bumpers are made of pp, or abs. Both very different plastics. Noral is another interesting material used in fenders.

If we knew what this "New Stuff" was made from, we could find if it needs flaming (closed cell structure like pp) and what primer to use.

bumper and norel fenders can move by 100mm (4") and bounce back with a perfect paint job. The paint may scratch, but not scratch off.

will

P.S. when we going to see something in the uk
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Old Jan 18, 2008, 10:37 AM
The Predator
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Golden, Colorado
Joined Dec 2004
3,565 Posts
We're definitly good to go using acrylics on the outside as demonstrated by the car body post, luster coat works well in that application as well an is cheaper. It only gets scratched up doing something STUPID like launching your Guppy with a faulty switch and watching it nose dive into a rocky scree slope 50ft down! Even still, it looked OK but a bit scratched and wrinkled on the nose. I thought it would be DONE FOR!
I recieved a call just before dawn this mornig from a pigment engineer with a BIG chemical co. and we had a detailed dissucssion focusing on our needs to get an EASY APPLYING, SUPER EPP FOAM STICKING, vehicle for some BRIGHT and dark pigments. He sounded VERY CONFIDENT, took my address and is sending samples out today!
I sent out a BUNCH of my covering with Barry, a UK flier, so I hope you all will be seeing it soon! I've sent enough down under to cover about half the island. Amazingly, the Gringos have been the slowest to act on this stuff and aside from John Ed and Paul have posted nothing. I guess that's good, I'll enjoy having the stiffest foamies in the country for awhile. I hung with Jantar 2 yesterday and we talked over how he was going to use some BURRLY to finish his JW's we were playing with. He saw my Thunderbird and Chinooks covered in it. He also hooked me up with another conventional wing!
I have built Nick's 2M Artic Phox short kit and a 1-D he sold me with the BCH. Those ships now ROCK! I'm working up another VERY ORIGINAL/FUNCKY construction style to build conventional ships as easily as my wings have been. These new ships will be designed to BREAK and be field repaired in 2 min. Everything WILL BREAK, its how long it takes to get it all back into the air and flying well that matters, for me at least!
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Last edited by The Predator; Jan 18, 2008 at 10:55 AM.
Old Jan 18, 2008, 10:41 AM
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Joined May 2000
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Hmm... But which is the best paint to use that will come off with each combat hit, thus marking your victims?
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