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Old Dec 21, 2007, 08:18 AM
SuperGee in PNG?
Tisr's Avatar
Goroka, Papua New Guinea
Joined Feb 2006
215 Posts
Question
Futaba 9C transmitter programming for 4ch rx

I recently purchased a 9CAP Super. I wish to use this transmitter in the
SuperGee I am building. I am not seeking to control flaps using the throttle
stick, but rather will use a switch to have have three settings (camber,
range and run).

My question is, is it possible to use a four channel receiver rather
than a five or six channel. I realise you can't reassign channels with
this transmitter, but I thought I could mix channel five to channel three
and than somehow disable the throttle stick. Is this possible and if
so how do I go about doing it?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

Dan
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Old Dec 21, 2007, 09:59 AM
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Germantown, Maryland
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The link below was written for a Futaba 8U transmitter:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...72#post3478472

The 9C would be similar. The writeup assumes you want to deploy flaps for glidepath or landing control with the throttle stick. I'm not sure if you were saying that you didn't want to deploy flaps for landing at all or if you meant that you wanted to use some other control besides the throttle stick for that. There are solutions for either of those scenarios.
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Old Dec 24, 2007, 09:20 AM
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LI, New York, USA
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If you don't mind my saying, the new 5 and 6 channel receivers are pretty light. Rather than going through a lot of mixing, have you considered getting a micro 5 or 6 channel receiver?

A Hitec micro 05S is only 8 grams with the case. $40 with the crystal.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXGZT0&P=ML

I have a berg 7 channel in my XP5. It is only 8 Grams.
It is available with vert or horiz pins.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXLBY9&P=ML

A lot easier than messing with a lot of mixes to save, what, 3 grams? You won't need a lot of mixing. Think of the set-up time you will save.

What receiver are you using?
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Old Dec 27, 2007, 04:22 AM
SuperGee in PNG?
Tisr's Avatar
Goroka, Papua New Guinea
Joined Feb 2006
215 Posts
Thanks guys for both of your input(s) on this. At this stage for 4 ch rx my choices are a schulze, hyperion (berg) or corona, for five it would be a schulze and for six a corona or hyperion.

This is my first flapperon equipped hlg. Am I right in understanding that camber setting (range, run, float) are usually on a three position switch and brakes is on the throttle stick? Are brakes setup so they are neutral at stick forward?

Sorry about the newb questions - should probably know better...

Dan
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Old Dec 27, 2007, 08:02 AM
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I am fairly new to DLGs myself. I have a coach in our club, where DLGs are quite common. XP-4 and 5s, Super Gs, Sidewinders, and a variety of other 2 and 4 channel planes.

I have a 9CA Super and a 9CH. The 9CAS will be my main radio for DLG because of switch positions.

How you set-up depends on the plane and its airfoil. I have an XP-5 with a Drela airfoil. Hre ia how I have been advised to set-up my XP-5.

Flapperons neutral is considered reflex/run/hunt, depending on what you want to call it. Elevator is neutral.

Flapperons a couple of degrees down is considered float or thermal. Again, neutral elevator.

I guess some might have a second, further down position for thermal 2, but I have not been advised to do this.

Then flapperons down, about 70 degrees is brake/landing, which also uses elevator compensation to keep the plane level.

I have hunt/float/land on a 3 position switch using the 9C's 3 posiiton switch

Launch = landing = flaps around 70 degrees and elevator comp.
cruise = float= down a little
speed = hunt=neutral

I am going to be putting a launch mix, which is just adding a little up elevator on the trainer switch so it will go off when I release the switch after the throw.
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Old Dec 27, 2007, 10:00 AM
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Germantown, Maryland
Joined Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tisr
This is my first flapperon equipped hlg. Am I right in understanding that camber setting (range, run, float) are usually on a three position switch and brakes is on the throttle stick? Are brakes setup so they are neutral at stick forward?
There are so many variations on how people set up their glider programming that I will avoid even saying that most people do any particular thing. That statement would be true for DLG or for larger gliders. Instead I will say what I think that many people do

Many people set up switchable camber positions. Many people have three discrete camber positions as you suggest. With Futaba transmitters you could set up those three camber positions on a three position switch. You would then use the Glider2flap programming menu to set that up. The center switch position is the OFF position so you would set the flaperon and elevator trims while the switch is in the center position. You would then use the START and SPEED mixes to set the desired flaperon and elevator postions for the other two switch positions.

It is very normal to use the throttle stick for braking and also to have the stick forward for neutral. If you activate the BUTTERFLY mix (within Glider2flap programming) then this is automatically set up. As soon as that mix is activated, you will be able to program both flaps (CH 5 & 6) and both ailerons (CH 1 & 7) and also elevator compensation (CH2) such that they all deploy as desired when the throttle stick is pulled down. If you go with a four channel receiver in a flaperon DLG then you will only be prgramming channel 1 and channel 2 within the Butterfly mix. You would need to use the programmable mixers (PMIXes) to control the second flaperon plugged into CH 3.

If you can tell me exactly how you want your transmitter program set up I can pull my 9C off the shelf and set it up that way and then tell you how I did it. I would need to know:

How do you want to activate a launch preset for the elevator? I'm thinking that the 9CAP has the spring loasded switch on the left, you are right handed and flying mode two. If that is all true, you would likely want to use the spring loaded switch F for the launch preset.

I also think that the 9CAP has the three position switches on the right side. Are you OK with using one of those switches for camber changing? I have the 9CHP so that the three position switch is on the left and I can do camber changing without taking my hand off the right stick.
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Old Dec 28, 2007, 03:43 PM
SuperGee in PNG?
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Goroka, Papua New Guinea
Joined Feb 2006
215 Posts
Hi Phil

That is a very kind offer and one that doesn't come along every day Maybe it'll benefit some other guys who also fly futaba rather than Evos.

To begin with, I'm flying with throttle/ailerons on the right stick, elevator/rudder on the left (sorry can't remember what mode this is). At this stage, to avoid the programming complications I think I'll stick with a five channel rx.

Looking at my manual, I think the switch layout of the Australian version is a bit different to the one in the states. I will refer to the labels on the switch, because I believe they are in the same locations.

The spring loaded switch (for launch preset) is H and is on the top right hand corner. Obviously this switch is on the wrong side for someone launching right handed - has anyone ever rewired one of this Tx's to swap the sides?

My preferred three position switch is located at C (right hand front face above throttle). There is also one at E (on top left hand corner).

I haven't taken into account a switch allocation for dual rates, but I haven't found a need to use that in feature in any other of my models.

Anyway I hope this is all you need Phil. Thanks again for the offer.

Kind regards

Dan
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Old Dec 28, 2007, 05:50 PM
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Flaperon DLG with a 5Ch RX

Thank you for accepting my offer. I learn more about Futaba programming every time I do this. This time I learned even more about the limitations imposed on Futaba glider programming when you don't have a seven channel receiver. Yes, it is possible to output the second aileron to channel 5 with the 9Csuper, but I have found one limitation that doesn't exist when you use a 7 channel receiver.

The basic program

Plug servos in as follows:

CH1 aileron 1
CH2 elevator
CH3 not used/ used for power input
CH4 rudder
CH5 aileron 2

Within the PARAMETER menu: select model type as; GLID(1 FLAP). Scroll down to AIL->2 and set for CH6&5 OR CH7&5 (It will say CH6&5 if Flaperon is active OR it will say CH7&5 if Aileron differential is active).

Go to the END POINT menu and increase the end points for CH1 and CH5 to 140% in both directions. This will increase the amount of flaperon travel that is available.

Go to the advanced programming screen and then go to the FLAP-TRIM menu. Activate the FLAP-TRIM mix but set the percentage to zero. This will actually deactivate the FLAP-TRIM function so that none of the variable knobs or sliders will effect the flaperon position.

Go to the FLAPERON menu and activate this mix (it may already be active).

Go back to the basic menus and then the REVERSE menu. Turn on the model and reverse all servos as needed until they go in the correct direction.

Go into the SUB-TRIM menu and center the elevator servo to the correct position for ranging, center the rudder servo, center both flaperons to the range position.

Go to the END-POINT menu again and set the correct amount of travel for the elevator and rudder servos

Go back to the advanced menus and then into FLAPERON again and set the end points for the flaperon travel when used as ailerons.

Go to PROG.MIX1. Set up an aileron to rudder mix if you want one. Choose Aileron as master, Rudder as slave. Set the percentage of travel. Choose a switch to activate the mix or select Switch Position NULL if you want to be always on.

Go to the SW/MODE menu. Scroll down to OFSET-SW and select switch C. This will tell the transmitter to use switch C for camber changing offsets. You may also scroll down to B.FLY-SW and choose which switch will activate the landing flaps or choose position NULL if you want the landing flaps to be always active.

Go to and activate the START OFS menu. Input the correct percentages to offset the flaperons and the elevator as you wish for your thermal mode.

Go to and activate the SPEED OFS menu. Input the correct percentages to offset the flaperons and elevator for your speed mode (RUN) mode.

Go to and activate the BUTTERFLY menu. Input the correct percentages to deploy the flaperons and the elevator as needed for landing flaps.

Go to PROG.MIX2. Activate the mix, set OFFSET as master and elevator as slave. Put a small percentage in the mix for an elevator launch preset. Select a switch and a direction of travel to activate the mix. Switch F would be the top left switch. You may be able to physically move the spring loaded switch to that position. I have not attempted that yet but others may have.

Go to and activate the ELEV->FLAP mix and activate it. Input the desired percentage of flaperon movement

What this accomplishes

The above will give three camber positions on the three position C switch. Forward will be RUN, Center OFF will be Range, back will be Camber. You will have landing flaps with elevator compensation on the throttle stick. Your elevator launch preset will be on a two position switch of your choice or might be on the spring loaded switch if you can move it or have a service center move it. You will also have an aileron to rudder mix if you want it. You will have elevator to camber mix (snap flap).

You will need to flip or hold two switches to get in launch mode: switch C will need to be in the Run position and the elevator preset will need to be ON. The elevator preset comes off as soon as the model pitches to vertical.

Limitation when using a 5 CH receiver

To use the function that sends the second aileron output to CH 5, you must use GLID(1 FLAP) programming. With this programming you cannot set up switchable camber positions using a single PMIX. You either must use the canned START and SPEED mixes (as in the example above); Or you must use two separate Programmable mixes for the flaperons plus a third Programmable mix if you want an elevator offset with that camber change.

With a seven channel receiver, you could use GLID(2 FLAP) programming and use the ELEV->FLAP mix in conjuction with the FLAP->AILERON mix. With that setup, a single PMIX operating on CH 6 can offset the entire trailing edge.
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Old Dec 29, 2007, 06:41 AM
SuperGee in PNG?
Tisr's Avatar
Goroka, Papua New Guinea
Joined Feb 2006
215 Posts
Thanks Phil for a great and easy to understand (as far as radio programming goes ) explanation and for taking the time out to nut this all out. In your personal opinion, would there be anything to gain by going with a 6 channel rx like the JR610 I already have lying around? Would that mean I could use GLID (2 Flap)? In what situation would you use snap flap - I understand you use it coming off the line in thermal gliders but what about dlg?

Dan
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Old Dec 29, 2007, 08:25 AM
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Germantown, Maryland
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Glider(2 FLAP) programming always outputs the second aileron to CH7 so a 6CH receiver would not help. If you want to have elevator to camber mix (snap flap) then you need a 7CH receiver or you need to use two of your programmable mixers. Depending on what other things you have programmed on the model, you may or may not have those mixers available. The real limitation of the less-than-seven channel receiver is that you run out of programmable mixers a lot sooner than you would with a seven channel receiver.

If you intend to use the programming scheme that I listed above, but you want to try the elevator to camber mix, then just use two programmable mixes to set it up. The above scheme only uses two of your seven programmable mixes so you have five mixers left. Simply set up PROG.MIX3 with elevator as master and CH1 as slave. Put in the mix percentages you want and choose a switch to turn it ON/OFF or choose switch position NULL if you want it to be always on. Repeat that exercise with PROG.MIX4 using elevator as master and CH5 as slave.

I use an elevator to camber mix on all of my models. This mix simply adds more camber when up elevator is applied and reduces camber when down elevator is applied. The mix is on all the time. The idea is that camber is suposed to be proportional to airspeed. If I'm holding up elevator, I must be flying slowly so I want more camber. I have no idea if it helps or not. I just copied the idea from Tom Kiesling.

I just did a quick search and found this:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ap#post6692781
which tells you how much travel I have programmed into my elevtor to camber mix.
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Old Dec 30, 2007, 06:29 PM
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Goroka, Papua New Guinea
Joined Feb 2006
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Hey Phil

Thankyou for such great input. I do like Futaba gear, but the manuals aren't always set out the best - so I've found this thread to be very valuable.

So do you use your 9C for competitive flying? I always hear you refer to your 8U.

Kind regards

Dan
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Old Dec 30, 2007, 07:02 PM
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I've had a regular 9C for a long time but I never used it because I was not accustomed to the way that the transmitter trims would work within the mixes (Butterfly, Start and Speed) whenever one of those mixes was active. The 9C super has the ability to select how the trims work so you can set them to work on the active mix, or to always work on the base flight mode (the mode when no mix is active).

OK, that was really confusing and I can't see an obvios way to write it more clearly. You probably didn't follow that unless you were already familiar with the issue.

I may start using the 9C super for F3J next year. I should learn to set up flight modes with different trim speeds in each. I may eventually start doing that with F3K also. I like the simplicity of the 8U. I bought the 9Csuper when I did partly so I could see for myself what it could do and answer programming questions. If I get real comfortable with the whole flight mode concept and retrain myself to use the trims properly in each mode, I might start using the 9Csuper more. Or maybe I'll just get a JR9303 someday. It would be a tragedy to abandon Futaba after all these years though.
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Old Dec 30, 2007, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tisr
....In what situation would you use snap flap - I understand you use it coming off the line in thermal gliders but what about dlg?
This is why I don't like the term "snap flap" when talking about an elevator to camber mix. With gliders, I see this mix as simply a way to make the wing's camber proportional to the glider's airspeed. It really has nothing to do with making tight or "snappy" turns. Using the term elevator to camber mix, would help glider guiders to understand the purpose of the mix.
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Old Jan 01, 2008, 08:28 PM
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In answering another programming question in another thread, I learned some new things about the FLAPERON mixing function. I have gone back and edited post #8. That post now shows the use of the FLAPERON mix instead of the AILERON DIFFERENTIAL mix. Using the FLAPERON mix, you can use the ELEV->FLAP mix and it will work on both flaperons for elevator to camber (snap flap) mixing.
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Old Jan 02, 2008, 05:17 AM
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Thanks Phil

So this means you don't have to use the Pmixes to get the snap flap to work?
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