GWS-J10, the EDF jet model of the Chinese J-10 fighter - Page 2

GWS CHEN · Dec 23, 2007, 10:36 AM

Ken,

Yes, J-10's canard should be more responsive than Lavi's one, and J-10 was longer than Lavi, J-10 designers also used different engine, they made efforts on it.

Chen

Roger Lombard · Dec 23, 2007, 11:36 AM

Not that it bothers me one way or the other but from the wikipaedia page on the Chengdu J-10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-10_Fighter:

"There are reports about the Chengdu J-10's relationship with the Israeli IAI Lavi fighter program.[6] In formal (official) Chinese sources, the J-10 is said to have been developed from the canceled Chengdu J-9, which was a canard-configuration fighter program earlier than the Israeli Lavi[11] — a fact that arguably counters the Lavi related speculations. In an interview, the general designer of J-10, Mr. Song Wencong (宋文骢) said, "Our nation's new fighter's external design and aerodynamics configuration are completely made by us and did not receive foreign assistance, this made me very proud and filled with pride. Our nation developed J-9 in the 1960s, this adopted the canard configuration. So, those statements that said J-10 is a copy of Israeli Lavi are just laughable."[12]

There is evidence that the J-10 project received Israeli assistance. A simple comparison of known IAI Lavi prototype photographs and J-10 photographs (now officially released) confirms J-10 being further development of IAI Lavi.[13][14] One news article reported that when the U.S. government questioned Israel's Lavi technology re-exportation to China, the Director General of Israel's Ministry of Defense David Lari "acknowledged in an Associated Press interview that 'some technology on aircraft' had been sold to China and that some Israeli companies may not have 'clean hands'".[15] According to the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, the J-10 is modeled on the Lavi, and Israel cooperated with China on the J-10's development as well as on other projects." [16]"

herk1 · Dec 23, 2007, 01:32 PM

The Lavi project was largely financed with U.S. aid. I remember it being controversial that, here we were giving the Israelis a ton of aid money (over a billion?) and technology from the F-16 for them to develop their own fighter, so they could stop buying our F-15 fighter planes (i.e. hurting our own aerospace industry). If they really did turn around and then sell that development technology to another country...well can you say "chutzpah?"

crxmanpat · Dec 24, 2007, 12:17 AM

Got my EB email from Andy. I have skipped all of the latest jets from GWS, but I think I will go ahead and EB this one and hope that the EDF75 issues have been worked out. I replied to Andy to send me an invoice.

EDIT - Andy just replied to my email and said I was the 7th person to place an order. Guess that means I'm one of the lucky ones.

Pat

GWS4CEO · Dec 24, 2007, 01:00 AM

The new EDF75 rotor improvement will come with ribs to hold the center hole not to be off-set during cooling out from mold.

crxmanpat · Dec 24, 2007, 02:21 AM

That's good news Mr Lin! I'm looking forward to getting my kit in a few weeks.

Pat

kensp · Dec 24, 2007, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crxmanpat

Got my EB email from Andy. I have skipped all of the latest jets from GWS, but I think I will go ahead and EB this one and hope that the EDF75 issues have been worked out. I replied to Andy to send me an invoice.

EDIT - Andy just replied to my email and said I was the 7th person to place an order. Guess that means I'm one of the lucky ones.

Pat

Pat

I have an EDF-75 with a GWS 2815 Inrunner Motor on my test stand at the moment. The light is not good, because of storms and I am running on the limit of both my 30 amp ESC and 1800 mAh 20 C battery so I have not posted any test results yet. But my preliminary finding agree with the published GWS data. Because of the poor light I cannot make a no load rpm test to get a kV for the GWS GWS 2815 Inrunner Motor

I am purchasing a 2250 25C battery and a 40 amp ESC to make extended tests.

Check out this thread started by Sven from GWS-rc-models-ch. I have tested this sugestion and it works well.

Ken

GWS4CEO · Dec 24, 2007, 03:26 AM

When rotor center less off-set and weight lighten will make RPM higher, yet less current and vibration.

But the more accuracy demand, the production cost go higher!

I should ask them to check with same motor load on old and new rotors to see how much differance of thrust and amp will be read?

birdlives1955 · Dec 24, 2007, 03:57 AM

Dude! This is sweet! When's this coming out in stores? Anybody know? Man, nice work GWS. Congratulations, you guys at GWS are really turning them out these days.

crxmanpat · Dec 24, 2007, 10:09 AM

Ken,

Which rotor do you have, the original one shipped with the A-4 EBs, or the improved one with webbing in the hub?

A few posts up Mr Lin says the J-10 will come with the improved rotor. I'm hoping the blades will be a little thicker as well as the added support in the hub.

I will thoroughly test my setup before installation.

Pat

blueplane · Dec 24, 2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Lombard

Not that it bothers me one way or the other but from the wikipaedia page on the Chengdu J-10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-10_Fighter:

"There are reports about the Chengdu J-10's relationship with the Israeli IAI Lavi fighter program.[6] In formal (official) Chinese sources, the J-10 is said to have been developed from the canceled Chengdu J-9, which was a canard-configuration fighter program earlier than the Israeli Lavi[11] — a fact that arguably counters the Lavi related speculations. In an interview, the general designer of J-10, Mr. Song Wencong (宋文骢) said, "Our nation's new fighter's external design and aerodynamics configuration are completely made by us and did not receive foreign assistance, this made me very proud and filled with pride. Our nation developed J-9 in the 1960s, this adopted the canard configuration. So, those statements that said J-10 is a copy of Israeli Lavi are just laughable."[12]

There is evidence that the J-10 project received Israeli assistance. A simple comparison of known IAI Lavi prototype photographs and J-10 photographs (now officially released) confirms J-10 being further development of IAI Lavi.[13][14] One news article reported that when the U.S. government questioned Israel's Lavi technology re-exportation to China, the Director General of Israel's Ministry of Defense David Lari "acknowledged in an Associated Press interview that 'some technology on aircraft' had been sold to China and that some Israeli companies may not have 'clean hands'".[15] According to the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, the J-10 is modeled on the Lavi, and Israel cooperated with China on the J-10's development as well as on other projects." [16]"

All they need now is a few good men for their J-10s.

GWS4CEO · Dec 24, 2007, 08:13 PM

No extra discount on EMS postage for J-10, since no one feel need to say thanks and appreciate to GWS, yet we had too much complains during A4 run on EB.

But this time every J-10 EB will get a free 2815 motor! Pay $60 for NPS only.

However, you can feel free to make choice: "I don't need your free motor!"

First 50 kits with this offer only who paying the EB invoce, first come first serve.

crxmanpat · Dec 24, 2007, 08:26 PM

Mr Lin,

Thank you for the offer of the free motor and discounted EMS shipping. I was order number 7, so I made it in on the offer.

Happy Holidays to you and your staff!

Pat

GWS4CEO · Dec 25, 2007, 02:18 AM

The new GWS BL2815 RED tune up so much thrust!

The motor come with thrust will be arround 750g ~ close to 800g only avalibe to go with GWS EDF JETs kit.

Those below 750g will be equipped and go with JET trainers or EDF gliders ( HV-2 ).

ParkJeff · Dec 25, 2007, 03:49 AM

Mr Lin,

Could we have more info on your 2815 RED motor? Kv, weight as well as no. of poles?

Thanks.

Jeff

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Dec 23, 2007, 10:36 AM	#16
GWS CHEN Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Taiwan Posts: 3,842	Ken, Yes, J-10's canard should be more responsive than Lavi's one, and J-10 was longer than Lavi, J-10 designers also used different engine, they made efforts on it. Chen

Dec 23, 2007, 11:36 AM	#17
Roger Lombard Confused? Who, me? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Derbyshire Peak District, UK Posts: 3,709	Not that it bothers me one way or the other but from the wikipaedia page on the Chengdu J-10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-10_Fighter: "There are reports about the Chengdu J-10's relationship with the Israeli IAI Lavi fighter program.[6] In formal (official) Chinese sources, the J-10 is said to have been developed from the canceled Chengdu J-9, which was a canard-configuration fighter program earlier than the Israeli Lavi[11] — a fact that arguably counters the Lavi related speculations. In an interview, the general designer of J-10, Mr. Song Wencong (宋文骢) said, "Our nation's new fighter's external design and aerodynamics configuration are completely made by us and did not receive foreign assistance, this made me very proud and filled with pride. Our nation developed J-9 in the 1960s, this adopted the canard configuration. So, those statements that said J-10 is a copy of Israeli Lavi are just laughable."[12] There is evidence that the J-10 project received Israeli assistance. A simple comparison of known IAI Lavi prototype photographs and J-10 photographs (now officially released) confirms J-10 being further development of IAI Lavi.[13][14] One news article reported that when the U.S. government questioned Israel's Lavi technology re-exportation to China, the Director General of Israel's Ministry of Defense David Lari "acknowledged in an Associated Press interview that 'some technology on aircraft' had been sold to China and that some Israeli companies may not have 'clean hands'".[15] According to the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, the J-10 is modeled on the Lavi, and Israel cooperated with China on the J-10's development as well as on other projects." [16]"

Dec 23, 2007, 01:32 PM	#18
herk1 Trash Hauler emeritus Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 768	The Lavi project was largely financed with U.S. aid. I remember it being controversial that, here we were giving the Israelis a ton of aid money (over a billion?) and technology from the F-16 for them to develop their own fighter, so they could stop buying our F-15 fighter planes (i.e. hurting our own aerospace industry). If they really did turn around and then sell that development technology to another country...well can you say "chutzpah?"

Dec 24, 2007, 12:17 AM	#19
crxmanpat TEAM EJF MINION Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 9,366	Got my EB email from Andy. I have skipped all of the latest jets from GWS, but I think I will go ahead and EB this one and hope that the EDF75 issues have been worked out. I replied to Andy to send me an invoice. EDIT - Andy just replied to my email and said I was the 7th person to place an order. Guess that means I'm one of the lucky ones. Pat

Dec 24, 2007, 01:00 AM	#20
GWS4CEO Houng-wen Lin Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California. Posts: 18,200	The new EDF75 rotor improvement will come with ribs to hold the center hole not to be off-set during cooling out from mold.

Dec 24, 2007, 02:21 AM	#21
crxmanpat TEAM EJF MINION Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 9,366	That's good news Mr Lin! I'm looking forward to getting my kit in a few weeks. Pat

Dec 24, 2007, 03:26 AM	#23
GWS4CEO Houng-wen Lin Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California. Posts: 18,200	When rotor center less off-set and weight lighten will make RPM higher, yet less current and vibration. But the more accuracy demand, the production cost go higher! I should ask them to check with same motor load on old and new rotors to see how much differance of thrust and amp will be read?

Dec 24, 2007, 03:57 AM	#24
birdlives1955 That thing's operational! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Orleans/Dallas Posts: 4,695	Dude! This is sweet! When's this coming out in stores? Anybody know? Man, nice work GWS. Congratulations, you guys at GWS are really turning them out these days.

Dec 24, 2007, 10:09 AM	#25
crxmanpat TEAM EJF MINION Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 9,366	Ken, Which rotor do you have, the original one shipped with the A-4 EBs, or the improved one with webbing in the hub? A few posts up Mr Lin says the J-10 will come with the improved rotor. I'm hoping the blades will be a little thicker as well as the added support in the hub. I will thoroughly test my setup before installation. Pat

Dec 24, 2007, 08:13 PM	#27
GWS4CEO Houng-wen Lin Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California. Posts: 18,200	No extra discount on EMS postage for J-10, since no one feel need to say thanks and appreciate to GWS, yet we had too much complains during A4 run on EB. But this time every J-10 EB will get a free 2815 motor! Pay $60 for NPS only. However, you can feel free to make choice: "I don't need your free motor!" First 50 kits with this offer only who paying the EB invoce, first come first serve.

Dec 24, 2007, 08:26 PM	#28
crxmanpat TEAM EJF MINION Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 9,366	Mr Lin, Thank you for the offer of the free motor and discounted EMS shipping. I was order number 7, so I made it in on the offer. Happy Holidays to you and your staff! Pat

Dec 25, 2007, 02:18 AM	#29
GWS4CEO Houng-wen Lin Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California. Posts: 18,200	The new GWS BL2815 RED tune up so much thrust! The motor come with thrust will be arround 750g ~ close to 800g only avalibe to go with GWS EDF JETs kit. Those below 750g will be equipped and go with JET trainers or EDF gliders ( HV-2 ).

Dec 25, 2007, 03:49 AM	#30
ParkJeff Who moved the runway? Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australasia Posts: 705	Mr Lin, Could we have more info on your 2815 RED motor? Kv, weight as well as no. of poles? Thanks. Jeff