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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:40 PM
KF5LDN FPV Junkie!!!
Wizzard033's Avatar
United States, TX, Lubbock
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Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
I think american 100mW vs european 10mW radios is also an important point to raise.
Euro radios are often capped to 10mW due to some dumb regulations.
Which would obviously make them useless for long range ground control.

Personally I would love to get a hold of an american 100mW module on 72Mhz or something.
Because im sick of fighting my SUPPOSEDLY better UHF system while others make it well over a mile on simple stuff.
Certainly a good point sir!

One of our fellow contributors here uses 72/ch14 less than 2 miles from me and gets incredible results where I cant Leave my yard with the exact same freq.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 03:26 AM
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Roosendaal, Netherlands
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I have a 40Mhz module, but that would mean having a 1/8th antenna on my car thats three feet!
Dont know how well that would fare driving around. I bet it would be slapping my video antenna all the way..
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by carguy1994ca View Post
Sorry, didn't mean to offend you. I understand budget. It's just that since you were going with a budget in mind for the car, I was suggesting to first use the radio that comes with it and see the range you get. I first used my FPV set up woth a mini mauler truck on 27 mhz, so I started small. It was pretty fun actually to drive in the house.
No problem Still pricing out stuff...

Cameras -

I saw the 808 #18 has live A/V out but as suggested its a CMOS camera. I watched some videos on YT and yes I understand that giggly/jello/wavy picture that was talked about, that's basically unacceptable. I also saw a video with a smart phone strapped to a HPI Switch (1/12) on carpet and the result was the same, not a shock cell phones use CMOS cameras as well.

Thinking along the lines of self-contained, I come back to the Go Pro 3 White. Its 30% smaller (kinda like my PS3 Super Slim) than the original and should work fine on a 1/18 scale car. Somebody put one on a 1/24 Losi Rally and it worked well but of course that car could only support the camera and not much else.

I seems the difference between these cheap and tiny Chinese cameras is they record at 30fps, while the "action" cameras record/display 60fps which is able to deal with the "shakes" better -

Quote:
I do not record any action cameras in 1080P/30FPS mode since CMOS jello effects can be very pronounced in fast action scenes. So I record most clips in 720P 60FPS
Basically any camera with a live output (Swan, Go Pro, AEE, etc) runs about $200 or around $200. The other cameras need to be mounted some how and I'll have to work that out.

Maybe I can talk Ben Heckendorn (Ben Heck Show) into making a case for the Horyzon or something...

Radio -

The 75Mhz radio I currently have can be used for phase one, which is to run the car out of LOS around the side of the house, make a u-turn and be used as part of a backyard track.

But there's no way to use my steering wheel with that radio.

Some of the HK ground/car radios come with a USB PPM, even the $25 radio comes with it for use with the game VRC. I also found you can plug it directly from the communication jack on the radio to the mic input on a PC and it will still work without the USB interface.

The car -

As I keep mentioning this is meant to be a budget friendly build. I would add it to my forthcoming blog about all things automotive. It would be interesting to have a rally car for light off-road (backyard) duty but still able to run it on pavement and maybe a drift car later with FPV.

I could go a few directions here, explanation -

Use current radio, charger and battery:

Turnigy 1/16 Extreme Rally Brushless. I doubt the 3300Mah stick pack would work in that, it comes with a 1500Mah NiMh pack. A 1700Mah 2C Lipo is $8, while a 2200Mah from HobbyPartz (Sky Lipo) is $3.50 more.

Add $45 for a better than decent Lipo/NiMh/NiCd/Li-Ion AC/DC charger

Total = $140

1/18 Atomik Deegan Fiesta. Comes with its own radio (2.4Ghz), could sell my AM on CL/AM/Ebay. Again current NiMh stick pack won't work in a small car, could sell that with the charger and pay maybe as little as $20-$30 for the car complete RTR. I would get a Lipo pack(s) and charger ($45) right of the bat which I think is max 2200Mah, same as Turnigy.

With paying so little for the car net, leaves budget for other parts.

Total = $66.37 (under $100 more than likely)

The final option is a Tamiya TT-01. While a Associated RC18R is available for under $140 now, that is only other 1:18 I would get with a price tag under $150 which is my max. The only other widely available rally cars are from Tamiya. The DF-03a chassis is designed for rally with extended suspension travel and actually based off one of Tamiya's 4WD buggies, but cost at least $300 (comes with oil shock, bearings and a few other do-dads)

I wanted to run TCS, (Tamiya Championship Series) the TT-01 can be run in the Novice classes but might not be competitive in GT3. Plus I the backyard track I envisioned is not really designed for 1/10 scale. Which means I would set it up for street duty. The TT-01 is fully sorted; Speed tuned gears, bearings, small pinion, cva oil shocks, sport tuned springs, adjustable links and a alum drive shaft are all that is needed to run the car competitively.

The first investment I would make (after bearings) after watching a build/review on YT is oil filled shocks. The slop in the suspension combined with the friction shocks allow the wheels to bounce up and down, which isn't good for traction for just bashing around. Those would be my first two mods.

Cheapest TT-01 Rally car is the Subaru STi Wagon (Solberg) at $135, but add oil shocks ($24), heavier oil (still bounced with included oil) and bearings ($20) and the final price is $179 or out of my budget.

Yes it handles bad enough (not terrible) cva's are a worthwhile investment, the plastic shaft wobbles ($12) and even the cheaper R/C have full bearings (the Fiesta and the Turnigy both do!)

Again my backyard rally/pavement track isn't designed with 1/10 in mind but there's more real estate for FPV.

Well time to get some sleep got an appointment I can't miss tomorrow...
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 02:53 PM
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If the 808 camera jello effect was unacceptable because it's a CMOS camera, don't get any GoPro cameras. They too are also CMOS cameras and even the Black Edition has jello.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizzard033 View Post
Certainly a good point sir!

One of our fellow contributors here uses 72/ch14 less than 2 miles from me and gets incredible results where I cant Leave my yard with the exact same freq.
That might be the car with the 80in antenna. He knows it looks silly but the range is savory at the same time lol
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 04:36 PM
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80 inches? djeez.. How does he even keep that upright, and without toppling the car with pure dangling weight no less?
Mine would be up to 72" if I had to go quarter wave on my 40MHz system. I kind want to opt for 1/8th though..
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by healthyfatboy View Post
If the 808 camera jello effect was unacceptable because it's a CMOS camera, don't get any GoPro cameras. They too are also CMOS cameras and even the Black Edition has jello.
"Bluestreak" runs a Go Pro on his Blitz on rough terrain. He runs a gyro with it however, but that's likely because of the tilt/pan he's setup. I'm assuming the gyro is using the servos of the pan/tilt to keep the camera pointed straight.

"CarGuy" has a Go Pro mounted on foam and doesn't have bad shakes.

I was just pointing out the cheap 808's have shake but maybe they need to be mounted on some foam of some sort.

I think I saw a thread where somebody mounted a 808 #18 on top of memory foam and lightly strapped it down to solve the "shakes". That might be a way to go with those cameras.

* I found several #11 808 and #16 808 videos mounted on sct's, rustler, losi min-t, even a couple of high speed R/C boats and no shake. The one video (actually two of them from the same person) didn't securely mount his to his car, it also fell off once. But to be fair it also fell off of the Rustler but he crashed it too..
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 04:56 PM
I tell her RC is cheap !
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There are lots of ways to remove bad vibes that make jello. I was lucky to always be able to remove them on my machines with velcro and/or foam and a good firm strap. Usually the best way to mount the camera on an RC car is to secure it to the chassis.

I was lucky enough with the Summit and its roll bar becaue its a hefty plastic part compare to the lexan body. I also balance my wheels with lead weight. I will soon try it with the Tonka body witht he camera atached to the driver's seat. It should be good because its all attached to the massive Tonka body, wich itself i held to the chassis with bolts. The only loose that may be left will be on the pan and tilt servos/linkage.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
80 inches? djeez.. How does he even keep that upright, and without toppling the car with pure dangling weight no less?
Mine would be up to 72" if I had to go quarter wave on my 40MHz system. I kind want to opt for 1/8th though..
Really id like to try wizzards setup on 433 I'm tired of hauling this much antenna around on trips lol. This is just making do with convenient equipment i already had

So the half wave for 72 was roughly 78.5 inches but it didn't have to be exact for my jr select scan receiver. My mast is very lightweight, it took years of fishing poles and breakable setups you can't roll with to get here

I run wot commonly with it, when it rolls the whip self rights now, no break. Its rigid plastic servo guide tubes from wings n things taped around each other, wire through the middle one. Electrical tape skin, coat hangers for internal support that's a sick mix man. Nasa level sht man.

Sure does work, my fpv rig slams into ditches at 30mph and rolls unscathed usually, that has been worth all the different trial masts this rig went through.

The walkie is for finding it at night on trails etc, phone ringer function. And to yell at potential thieves when I'm in their gardens etc.
lol

Pic is sideways I'll work on that dang cell p
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by carguy1994ca View Post
There are lots of ways to remove bad vibes that make jello. I was lucky to always be able to remove them on my machines with velcro and/or foam and a good firm strap. Usually the best way to mount the camera on an RC car is to secure it to the chassis.

I was lucky enough with the Summit and its roll bar becaue its a hefty plastic part compare to the lexan body. I also balance my wheels with lead weight. I will soon try it with the Tonka body witht he camera atached to the driver's seat. It should be good because its all attached to the massive Tonka body, wich itself i held to the chassis with bolts. The only loose that may be left will be on the pan and tilt servos/linkage.
Those are some good points Car Guy, thanks. I don't know too many people besides serious racers that bother to balance tire/wheels on r/c cars.

Foam inserts also help the tire sidewall flex.

Secure mounting is likely the key (no pun), loose or not quite solid mounting causes frame shake.

I'm just trying to keep the price of admission down to a very reasonable cost.

I also found there are some settings in these cameras that might help with shake and also using Virtual Dub for editing can also help with the shake. I've used Virtual Dub before to edit videos.

So the camera might have been selected.

Now to work on affordable Video Transmitter/Receiver system.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 08:21 PM
I tell her RC is cheap !
carguy1994ca's Avatar
Quebec, Canada
Joined Sep 2006
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Personnally I don't like "deshakers" softwares. Beside, you need to remove all the vibes you can so it will not be fuzzy when you drive fast.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by carguy1994ca View Post
Personnally I don't like "deshakers" softwares. Beside, you need to remove all the vibes you can so it will not be fuzzy when you drive fast.
http://www.rangevideo.com/index.php?...roducts_id=278

$10, mount that on a block of foam or lightweight wood block and velcro the key fob down, should be good to go.

I was just saying if you have a little bit, it can be tuned out with software. I found the Camera Anti-Vibration thread and its very informative.

In general, I have found securely mounted 808 cameras don't shake very much.

Pretty stable here -
Traxxas Rustler VXL crash recorded with 808 #11 HD keychain camera (1 min 14 sec)


He just slapped it onto the side of his truck with velcro.

On the Anti-Vibe thread many have said the keychain camera (808 #x) work well with Moongel, stuff that is usually used to keep servos stable or any kind of small device that tunes out the shaking caused by out of balance rotors, motors and the harmonics of alum frame quad copters.

They also said it works well securely mounted to wood... A block of foam would likely work as well.

I am not worried about getting shakes anymore, they can tuned out with mounting schemes.

So its the 808 #18 camera with a 8GB Micro SD card runs $45 on Ebay.

I also found a Polaroid Action Camera shaped more like the Go Pro and its $69; It says it has a TV out...

100-200mw 5.8Ghz system should be fine for starters, if I can drive all the way around the house (outside) without one dropped frame, I'll consider that a success.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 07:53 AM
I tell her RC is cheap !
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Quebec, Canada
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The 808 is a nice little cam, and the one with live ut and wide angle is very interesting. I would add to the velcro under th cam a velcro strap to hold the camera to the mount.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by djfourmoney View Post
http://www.rangevideo.com/index.php?...roducts_id=278

$10, mount that on a block of foam or lightweight wood block and velcro the key fob down, should be good to go.

I was just saying if you have a little bit, it can be tuned out with software. I found the Camera Anti-Vibration thread and its very informative.

In general, I have found securely mounted 808 cameras don't shake very much.

Pretty stable here

He just slapped it onto the side of his truck with velcro.

On the Anti-Vibe thread many have said the keychain camera (808 #x) work well with Moongel, stuff that is usually used to keep servos stable or any kind of small device that tunes out the shaking caused by out of balance rotors, motors and the harmonics of alum frame quad copters.

They also said it works well securely mounted to wood... A block of foam would likely work as well.

I am not worried about getting shakes anymore, they can tuned out with mounting schemes.

So its the 808 #18 camera with a 8GB Micro SD card runs $45 on Ebay.

I also found a Polaroid Action Camera shaped more like the Go Pro and its $69; It says it has a TV out...

100-200mw 5.8Ghz system should be fine for starters, if I can drive all the way around the house (outside) without one dropped frame, I'll consider that a success.
Mounting CMOS cameras properly will definitely help and if you're going for inexpensive, the 808 should be just fine as long as you take care of mounting properly.
What do you mean by dropped frames? If you don't want dropped frames or any fuzziness, you're not going to get it with 5.8 going around a house. I don't think I've even gotten that with a 900MHz 500mW transmitter before. I think you'll get around just fine with a 100-200mW 5.8 system but it's not going to be crystal clear. For the price, you're probably best to start off with that system and then tweak from there. At least you'll have an idea of what to expect from the start.
Here are two tests I did once using stock antennas for 5.8GHz and 900MHz.
5.8GHz Stock Antenna (4 min 26 sec)

900 MHz Whip Antenna (4 min 37 sec)

At least with these, you'll have an idea of what you can expect. You'll just be lower to the ground unless you get the transmitter up higher than a Summit so it'll likely be a little worse than this video. You'll also see as I turn the corner, the truck gets in between the transmitter and receiver and blocks a little of the signal. You'll want to keep that in mind when you do your mounting. Just try to keep a good view between the Tx/Rx from all angles.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branflakes View Post
Really id like to try wizzards setup on 433 I'm tired of hauling this much antenna around on trips lol. This is just making do with convenient equipment i already had

So the half wave for 72 was roughly 78.5 inches but it didn't have to be exact for my jr select scan receiver. My mast is very lightweight, it took years of fishing poles and breakable setups you can't roll with to get here

I run wot commonly with it, when it rolls the whip self rights now, no break. Its rigid plastic servo guide tubes from wings n things taped around each other, wire through the middle one. Electrical tape skin, coat hangers for internal support that's a sick mix man. Nasa level sht man.

Sure does work, my fpv rig slams into ditches at 30mph and rolls unscathed usually, that has been worth all the different trial masts this rig went through.

The walkie is for finding it at night on trails etc, phone ringer function. And to yell at potential thieves when I'm in their gardens etc.
lol

Pic is sideways I'll work on that dang cell p
Coathangers to give an antenna rigidity? Wont that bugger up reception? :P
My tonka will have an actual car horn inside, so finding it back or scaring the bajeebees out of bystanders wont be an issue.

My aim is atleast a mile LOS, can I get that going on with a 1/8th wave receiver antenna (92cm / 36"),
and a 1/2th wave (368cm / 144") monstrosity transmitter antenna on a telescopic mast (window squeegee telescope on a speakerstand)?
For the cars antenna I was thinking of getting some thick metal controlrod (very flexible, almost impossible to break/bend) and soldering it to an SMA connector,
then globbing hotglue on the base for reinforcement, then applying a shrinktube across the whole length of the thing.
Thoughts?
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