HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
 
Thread Tools
Old Dec 02, 2002, 05:02 AM
Kevin Kline
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

Problem is Jim, anytime someone looks for these causes and solutions
and they have the audacity to state their opinion of what they see and
think. They get slammed as an AMA basher by the self anointed Good
Ol' Boys! Sooner or later they decide they don't need this BS and are
willing to just let the system destroy itself. Laughing and crying as
they watch the anointed ones try to figure out the mess they've
created.

"Six_O'Clock_High" <Target_Lock@guns.com> wrote in message
news:fgDG9.29$kz2.10933@newsread1.prod.itd.earthli nk.net...
> Bob,
> I am sorry. I not really trying to whine. Rather I was trying to

make
> clear our NEXT hurdle. You are right about the RTF's, ARF's, and

instant
> gratification making checkbook modelers out of many new AMA

"members". That
> is an issue that the AMA and most clubs seem to have closed our eyes

to and
> that problem contains the seeds of our destruction.
>
> No, we cannot get folks to do things they don't want to do by

intimidation,
> force, or high prices. What we have to do is find a way to change

the
> entire approach to the hobby so the ARF folks are included and wish,

nay,
> DESIRE to participate. I think that is really the root of the

problem.
>
> We look at it differently than the checkbook guys and WE don't have

a clue.
> If we are to help the AMA survive, we must FIND a clue, but I am not

even
> sure we know where to look. To date, I have seen no evidence of

anyone (at
> AMA or elsewhere) even looking around to see what it is we might

have
> missed, much less trying to find out how to fix it. I wish I had an

answer
> and I hope someone out there will share it with us when they find

it.
>
> My opinion.
>
>
> Jim Branaum
> AMA 1428
> a.k.a
> Six_O'clock_High
> Target_Lock@guns.com
>
>
>
> "BobAndVickey" <bobandvickey@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20021201230249.24143.00000231@mb-cv.aol.com...
> > Excellent thought out post Jim. The real answere is there are no

one
> answere
> > fits all situations. The methods I mentioned worked at my old

club many
> years
> > ago very well. My old club was small town made up of mostly of

old
> timers, one
> > was on B-17's in the great WWII. Our field was in a semi-dessert

area so
> little
> > mowing if any was required. No one answere will make everyone

happy in a
> club.
> > I just know that I have never seen the strong arm tactics work

with
> volunteers.
> > I am sorry but IMHO you can't get volunteerism out of people that

have no
> sense
> > of duty beyond me, myself and I, which I not only see in out hobby

today
> but in
> > hiring young people at the company I work for. It is full circle

back to
> the
> > RTF & ARF syndrom which started this discussion. People simply buy

their
> > gratification these days so why should they feel obligated to go

beyond
> the
> > check for membership? I still say focus on supporting those that

want to
> help
> > out a little or a lot and let the others bitch about not getting

the small
> > extra benefits. On a big club like yours you might just ask for

quotes to
> > contract the mowing out to a non-member company and raise the dues

to
> cover it.
> > Or start a rotating roster of volunteers with the understanding

that if
> you
> > drop the ball twice without good reason your off the list till

next year.
> Most
> > organizations I have belonged to that had any luck with volunteers

had a
> person
> > or a group that organized and screened volunteers. They also had

a leader
> that
> > was excellent with people and did not need a whip to get things

done. If
> you
> > can find one of these in your group then get him or her to be your

head of
> > volunteers and keep them at all costs as they are pure gold.
> >
> > Bob Ruth
> >
> > >BobAndVickey" <bobandvickey@aol.com> wrote in message
> > >news:20021201143547.09040.00000134@mb-fd.aol.com...
> > >> Boys it all sounds great on the bar stool of life.
> > >
> > >THE BIG SNIP WAS HERE!
> > >
> > >> Sounds like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
> > >>
> > >> Wake up boys this is more complex than you think here.
> > >>
> > >> Bob Ruth
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >Bob,
> > >In your post there were some very valid points, however the last

one you
> > >made is the all telling one.
> > >
> > >Over the years my club has tried several different methods of

motivation,
> > >all to the same general result. Most of the ideas you and others

have
> > >touched on are just not effective.
> > >
> > >We tried the extra rewards and got whines from the non workers

about not
> > >being able to work. We talked about raising the dues and

refunding
> > >according to work done and ran into the exact same problem. We

even
> tried
> > >(well, presented at a club meeting) the Field Nazi and his

assigned
> worker
> > >drone teams and had that one thrown out the door along with the

> presenter.
> > >I think he is in Colorado now - not a joke.
> > >
> > >On close investigation we realized that the club has ONE mower,

ONE
> tractor
> > >and two fields. Hard to hammer Frank Flightpack when he has to

fight
> with
> > >149 other members for the right to work using club equipment.

Hard to
> > >hammer him for refusing to carry his personal mower in his

compact car to
> > >one of the fields and allow some idiots to cut rock with it,

which
> happens
> > >regularly no matter how hard we try to stop it. Any maintenance

> equipment
> > >used by the general public will be destroyed in about 20% of the

time you
> > >and I would use it for. That means we do not wish to spend a lot

of club
> > >monies buying excess equipment to be damaged. We have learned to

accept
> > >that as a fact of life and as a group have decided not to expect

any club
> > >members to provide personal equipment under those conditions.
> > >
> > >Both of our fields have paved runways, so maintenance is a social

issue
> > >rather than a flight issue. Of late several of us over worked

volunteers
> > >(officers and the like) have taken the approach that if you

cannot land
> on
> > >the runway, maybe you should see that the grass gets mowed. It

is not
> > >pretty, but if you don't like it you are welcome to change it.
> > >
> > >You can rail all you wish about how rotten my club members are,

but they
> > >actually represent a fair cross section of society as I have

observed in
> > >across the country. We have our 10 or 15 working people and the

rest of
> the
> > >folks. As far as I know, it is the same in every single club in

the
> > >country.
> > >
> > >Part of the problem is the basic club organizational thesis is

wrong in
> that
> > >it assumes things that clearly are not factual - all the

membership is
> > >participating gladly in everything. Part of the responsibility

for that
> bad
> > >organizational concept lies with AMA and is being reinforced with

the new
> > >requirement to file by-laws of your club with the AMA for the

next
> charter
> > >year. No where in the sample by-laws provided (MA Doc #539) is

the issue
> of
> > >flying site work or other club support activities addressed. In

fact, I
> > >doubt that anyone has ever put much thought to the fact that we

need the
> > >cooperative participation of our membership to build thriving

clubs and
> > >thereby the AMA. No, the AMA has taken a shall, shall not, and

must not
> > >approach rather than a proactive approach to solving

organizational
> > >problems.
> > >
> > >This is the single biggest stumbling block to our future in this

hobby I
> > >have ever seen and no one want to address it. No, folks would

rather
> "Big
> > >Daddy" AMA put the proverbial fix on the problem. Folks, W*E*

have to
> FIND
> > >the fix and TELL the AMA what it is! "They" are not the enemy,

no matter
> > >how strange and out of step with reality 'they' seem. No, 'they'

just
> have
> > >tunnel vision for the 'parent' organization when that is (or

should be)
> > >clearly the wrong entity to worry about. Proof of that can be

found in
> your
> > >local club's officer corps. How many ran unopposed for the

latest
> election?
> > >Look at the AMA's latest contest and see how many ran unopposed.

There
> is
> > >absolute proof of the impact of the problem on a national scale.

It is
> and
> > >has been my contention that the AMA has taken NO action to

generate
> > >additional participation in the organization other than saying WE

(club
> > >members, club officers, and the like) must insist that the

members also
> be
> > >AMA members. That is of little or no value.
> > >
> > >Remember willing participation means more than just throwing

money at the
> > >problem. It is too bad that appears to be the AMA approach to a

> solution,
> > >because it can be shown to be a negative solution. The

government has
> tried
> > >that approach to education for years and it has not worked yet.

In fact,
> in
> > >my lifetime education has gotten worse.
> > >
> > >If any of you who have bothered to read this to here happen to

have any
> > >ideas of how to generate willing participation and activity in a

club,
> > >please share them with us. It is very important to the future

of our
> > >organization and hobby.
> > >
> > >Sort of sorry for the rant, but this is a subject that has been

getting a
> > >lot of my attention lately and I have been unable to find an

effective
> > >solution.
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >
> > >Jim Branaum
> > >AMA 1428
> > > a.k.a
> > >Six_O'clock_High
> > >Target_Lock@guns.com

> >
> >

>
>


Old Dec 02, 2002, 09:00 AM
John VB
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

Set a cooler of beer out at the field! Might get them there, but they still
might not do anything. Seriously, many people are basically lazy. They
figure that somehow what needs doing will get done without them. I get
disgusted when I hear the excuse that I didn't have time. We all have the
same amount of time, it is a matter of what our priorities are. I had to
have that two hour nap. I had to get my five hours of TV viewing in today.
If you claim you didn't have time, it is more likely that you didn't think
the task or activity was important enough for you to set aside time for it.
Who legitimately can't squeeze in an hour or two once in a while. You can
if you want to.

John VB

"Six_O'Clock_High" <Target_Lock@guns.com> wrote in message
news_wG9.11417$ta5.1335488@newsread2.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net...
>
>
> If any of you who have bothered to read this to here happen to have any
> ideas of how to generate willing participation and activity in a club,
> please share them with us. It is very important to the future of our
> organization and hobby.
>
> Sort of sorry for the rant, but this is a subject that has been getting a
> lot of my attention lately and I have been unable to find an effective
> solution.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jim Branaum
> AMA 1428
> a.k.a
> Six_O'clock_High
> Target_Lock@guns.com
>
>
>
>



Old Dec 02, 2002, 03:52 PM
Mathew Kirsch
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

"Six_O'Clock_High" <Target_Lock@guns.com> wrote in message news:<p_wG9.11417$ta5.1335488@newsread2.prod.itd.e arthlink.net>...
> If any of you who have bothered to read this to here happen to have any
> ideas of how to generate willing participation and activity in a club,
> please share them with us. It is very important to the future of our
> organization and hobby.


Sitting here ranting about it is not the solution.

There is but one solution: Lead by example. Don't beg. Don't plead.
Don't ask for a show of hands. Don't bribe with free
food/drink/rewards. None of that works.

Our club put up a new fence at one field on a weekend. They had more
volunteers than posts. A work party was scheduled to fill in holes
left in the runway by animals digging for grubs. They scheduled it for
9AM on a Tuesday morning, and only a handful of people showed up. The
"field marshals" harped about the grub holes for three straight
meetings, and asked for a show of hands. When they put the fence up,
it was announced at the meeting just before the work took place, and
it was announced as a "just show up whenever" affair.
Old Dec 02, 2002, 04:07 PM
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

"Six_O'Clock_High" <Target_Lock@guns.com> writes:

> We have our 10 or 15 working people and the rest of the folks. As
> far as I know, it is the same in every single club in the country.


....and abroad. Don't knock it, Jim! You've got those 10 to 15
people, and you should be happy to have them. In any club, there's
going to be a core group of people who actually get things done, and a
lot of folks who just pay their dues and fly. Make sure the dues
aren't too low, and make sure the doers get some perks, including
reduced dues.

-tih
--
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo, Senior System Administrator, EUnet Norway
www.eunet.no T: +47-22092958 M: +47-93013940 F: +47-22092901
Old Dec 02, 2002, 05:30 PM
Albert Homburwas
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

Get rid of 'field nazis. Everyone hates them (except themselves). Then your
problems will fix themselves.



"Mathew Kirsch" <mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:d6bf3430.0212021252.67aa4111@posting.google.c om...
> "Six_O'Clock_High" <Target_Lock@guns.com> wrote in message

news:<p_wG9.11417$ta5.1335488@newsread2.prod.itd.e arthlink.net>...
> > If any of you who have bothered to read this to here happen to have any
> > ideas of how to generate willing participation and activity in a club,
> > please share them with us. It is very important to the future of our
> > organization and hobby.

>
> Sitting here ranting about it is not the solution.
>
> There is but one solution: Lead by example. Don't beg. Don't plead.
> Don't ask for a show of hands. Don't bribe with free
> food/drink/rewards. None of that works.
>
> Our club put up a new fence at one field on a weekend. They had more
> volunteers than posts. A work party was scheduled to fill in holes
> left in the runway by animals digging for grubs. They scheduled it for
> 9AM on a Tuesday morning, and only a handful of people showed up. The
> "field marshals" harped about the grub holes for three straight
> meetings, and asked for a show of hands. When they put the fence up,
> it was announced at the meeting just before the work took place, and
> it was announced as a "just show up whenever" affair.



Old Dec 02, 2002, 05:44 PM
Dr1Driver
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

> Seriously, many people are basically lazy.

I agree completely! In every club I've been a member of, 10% of the membership
did 90% of the work. We raised dues to cover getting the work done by an
outsider. The members griped, we lost 5, and the rest paid up. We lowered
dues and asked for volunteer help, two or three showed up, and rest stayed
home. We told everyone that, if they didn't participate, they were out. That
was voted down unanimously. I've never seen one officer election with more
than one choice for each office. Even the nominees are victims of a "Lionel"
job (railroaded).

It's part of the new idealogly, "not my problem, not my fault". No one wants
to take responsibility. So be it. One day, this attitude will turn around and
bite us all on the ass. We see it taking control in the AMA when a District VP
(I won't name names) doesn't even fly R/C. His column almost NEVER has any
pictures of AIRPLANES in it, and he only shows up at events within 1 hour from
his home. Hell, I WILL name names, it's Jim McNeil.
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Old Dec 02, 2002, 06:00 PM
Six_O'Clock_High
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

Mathew,
I am sorry I bothered you so much by asking an exceedingly stupid and simple
question. Your answer was of the same caliber.

Sorry, but I did not see the strikingly simple answer you shared with me as
an effective solution to the problem I stated. It does solve the problem of
the work at hand, but it clearly fails to address the motivation issue at
all. I guess in your active club everyone always works and is always
motivated to greatness.

However, thanks for the thoughts.

Jim Branaum
AMA 1428
a.k.a
Six_O'clock_High
Target_Lock@guns.com

"Mathew Kirsch" <mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:d6bf3430.0212021252.67aa4111@posting.google.c om...
> "Six_O'Clock_High" <Target_Lock@guns.com> wrote in message

news:<p_wG9.11417$ta5.1335488@newsread2.prod.itd.e arthlink.net>...
> > If any of you who have bothered to read this to here happen to have any
> > ideas of how to generate willing participation and activity in a club,
> > please share them with us. It is very important to the future of our
> > organization and hobby.

>
> Sitting here ranting about it is not the solution.
>
> There is but one solution: Lead by example. Don't beg. Don't plead.
> Don't ask for a show of hands. Don't bribe with free
> food/drink/rewards. None of that works.
>
> Our club put up a new fence at one field on a weekend. They had more
> volunteers than posts. A work party was scheduled to fill in holes
> left in the runway by animals digging for grubs. They scheduled it for
> 9AM on a Tuesday morning, and only a handful of people showed up. The
> "field marshals" harped about the grub holes for three straight
> meetings, and asked for a show of hands. When they put the fence up,
> it was announced at the meeting just before the work took place, and
> it was announced as a "just show up whenever" affair.
>



Old Dec 02, 2002, 10:15 PM
Micheal H. Gordon
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

Ya sure them thar same Field Nazis, of which you speak, aren't the same
ones doing all the work?

Albert Homburwas wrote:
>
> Get rid of 'field nazis. Everyone hates them (except themselves). Then your
> problems will fix themselves.
>
> "Mathew Kirsch" <mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:d6bf3430.0212021252.67aa4111@posting.google.c om...
> > "Six_O'Clock_High" <Target_Lock@guns.com> wrote in message

> news:<p_wG9.11417$ta5.1335488@newsread2.prod.itd.e arthlink.net>...
> > > If any of you who have bothered to read this to here happen to have any
> > > ideas of how to generate willing participation and activity in a club,
> > > please share them with us. It is very important to the future of our
> > > organization and hobby.

> >
> > Sitting here ranting about it is not the solution.
> >
> > There is but one solution: Lead by example. Don't beg. Don't plead.
> > Don't ask for a show of hands. Don't bribe with free
> > food/drink/rewards. None of that works.
> >
> > Our club put up a new fence at one field on a weekend. They had more
> > volunteers than posts. A work party was scheduled to fill in holes
> > left in the runway by animals digging for grubs. They scheduled it for
> > 9AM on a Tuesday morning, and only a handful of people showed up. The
> > "field marshals" harped about the grub holes for three straight
> > meetings, and asked for a show of hands. When they put the fence up,
> > it was announced at the meeting just before the work took place, and
> > it was announced as a "just show up whenever" affair.


--
Mike Gordon AMA 320990
Remember; RC Pylon Racing, the Ultimate Thrill,
when sex and drugs just ain't enough
Old Dec 02, 2002, 11:05 PM
Fubar
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

Well, the Field Nazi Im thinking of is most definitely NOT doing the work
but took it upon himself to enlighten the Ignorant Newbie (me) on the errors
of my ways re: flying my fixed wing plane while there was an eggbeater in
the air. Having read the club rules before hand and after being dressed down
for my utter nerve of sharing the sky with a copter, rereading the rules
again, I went to the owner of the field itself and asked him (both readings
having failed to produce the Thou Shalt NOT Fly When A Copter Doth Be
Airborne). He told me that there was a pad off to one side of the field for
the copters and it was a fixed wing field and NOT a copter field. I havent
seen the Nazi since so maybe he got sent to the Eastern Front.
--
Dan
AMA605992
I've heard the screams of the vegetables.
http://fubar1.freeservers.com
"Micheal H. Gordon" <mikegordon10@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3DEC219F.B9AEC937@attbi.com...
> Ya sure them thar same Field Nazis, of which you speak, aren't the same
> ones doing all the work?
>
> Albert Homburwas wrote:
> >
> > Get rid of 'field nazis. Everyone hates them (except themselves). Then

your
> > problems will fix themselves.
> >
> > "Mathew Kirsch" <mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:d6bf3430.0212021252.67aa4111@posting.google.c om...
> > > "Six_O'Clock_High" <Target_Lock@guns.com> wrote in message

> > news:<p_wG9.11417$ta5.1335488@newsread2.prod.itd.e arthlink.net>...
> > > > If any of you who have bothered to read this to here happen to have

any
> > > > ideas of how to generate willing participation and activity in a

club,
> > > > please share them with us. It is very important to the future of

our
> > > > organization and hobby.
> > >
> > > Sitting here ranting about it is not the solution.
> > >
> > > There is but one solution: Lead by example. Don't beg. Don't plead.
> > > Don't ask for a show of hands. Don't bribe with free
> > > food/drink/rewards. None of that works.
> > >
> > > Our club put up a new fence at one field on a weekend. They had more
> > > volunteers than posts. A work party was scheduled to fill in holes
> > > left in the runway by animals digging for grubs. They scheduled it for
> > > 9AM on a Tuesday morning, and only a handful of people showed up. The
> > > "field marshals" harped about the grub holes for three straight
> > > meetings, and asked for a show of hands. When they put the fence up,
> > > it was announced at the meeting just before the work took place, and
> > > it was announced as a "just show up whenever" affair.

>
> --
> Mike Gordon AMA 320990
> Remember; RC Pylon Racing, the Ultimate Thrill,
> when sex and drugs just ain't enough



Old Dec 03, 2002, 07:51 AM
Mathew Kirsch
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

"Six_O'Clock_High" <Target_Lock@guns.com> wrote in message news:<gCRG9.1043$hM3.150252@newsread2.prod.itd.ear thlink.net>...
> I am sorry I bothered you so much by asking an exceedingly stupid and simple
> question. Your answer was of the same caliber.


> Sorry, but I did not see the strikingly simple answer you shared with me as
> an effective solution to the problem I stated. It does solve the problem of
> the work at hand, but it clearly fails to address the motivation issue at
> all. I guess in your active club everyone always works and is always
> motivated to greatness.


That's just it. You can't motivate people. People have to motivate
themselves. Anything else is coercion. A club will not last long if
the members are "motivated" to do "volunteer" work through bribery or
hard-ass tactics.

If you bothered to read my TWO examples, you'd note that everyone
doesn't "always work" and is not "motivated to greatness." Two
different projects were approached two different ways. One got truck
loads of volunteers, one didn't.

Maybe if your club has problems with volunteerism, you should look at
the leadership.
Old Dec 03, 2002, 08:05 AM
Bill Archibald
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

On 02 Dec 2002 22:44:38 GMT, dr1driver@aol.com (Dr1Driver) wrote:

>> Seriously, many people are basically lazy.

>
>I agree completely! In every club I've been a member of, 10% of the membership
>did 90% of the work.



And that basically is the crux. It's always the same group that does
all the work. Ya gots your "dos" and ya gots your "don'ts"

Apparently rewards, punishment, or social pressure ain't gonna change
the behavior of the "don'ts".

It's the same in other volunteer run organizations. I am happily
ending my two year term on the board of an town athletic
organization. When faced with a project I was supposed to take the
list of parents and call until I found enough volunteers to help.
After spending two to three hours the first time finding four people
willing to help, I threw away the list and "just did it" myself. It
was quicker.

Our club just had its annual meeting (a record 36% of the membership
showed up). Motions were made to grant certain "doers" free dues next
year, it was essentially shot down, the most vocal opponent was one of
the officers, who all get free dues......hmmmmm.

Unfortunately, those of us that are the "doers" might as well accept
the fact that we are the ones on whose labors the clubs survive. I bet
it's been this way since time began and won't change soon.

-Bill


Old Dec 03, 2002, 09:29 AM
Dr1Driver
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

>Motions were made to grant certain "doers" free dues next
>year, it was essentially shot down, the most vocal opponent was one of
>the officers, who all get free dues......hmmmmm.
>


That sounds familiar, Bill...
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Old Dec 03, 2002, 11:11 AM
Six_O'Clock_High
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members


"Mathew Kirsch" <mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:d6bf3430.0212030451.34ce1add@posting.google.c om...
> "Six_O'Clock_High" <Target_Lock@guns.com> wrote in message

news:<gCRG9.1043$hM3.150252@newsread2.prod.itd.ear thlink.net>...

>
> That's just it. You can't motivate people. People have to motivate
> themselves. Anything else is coercion. A club will not last long if
> the members are "motivated" to do "volunteer" work through bribery or
> hard-ass tactics.
>


I think we have a communications problem here. Lets try it again. Your
examples were great for getting some task done but missed the point of
willing participation in club activities, not all involving work!

I have a "student" that several have tried to teach to fly and been
unsuccessful because he insists on doing it his way (old rider scale SEL
pilot with rusty memories that DO NOT transfer to R/C). He came to me
complaining and I told him that I could help if he wanted it but there were
some things he had to do first (fix the plane and get the radio checked).
Since then I have not seen him at the field ready to fly. A week or two ago
I got to go early and went to the big field. He called my house and whined
to my wife about my not teaching him to fly. After calling me, she told him
where I was and that I expected him. He never showed. That kind of
participation stinks but it is becoming more and more prevalent in our
organizations.

I am not as into coercion as many and I know what the end result of that
stupidity is. I think I have given examples of the bad impact that approach
has. 'Motivate' is just a word I have used to indicate some increased
interest in social action within a social organization. If you have a
better one, use and share it.

Greatness? I would be happy with participation!

I know and understand that there are many different approaches to our hobby
to be found in most clubs, but it is amazing to me that we even are able to
call them clubs when the participation level I have noted in many is very
low. I also note that the participation level seems to go down as the club
size grows. That concerns me because larger clubs tend to be more
successful in getting and retaining flying sites.

I used my club as an example because from what I have seen and heard this is
NOT just a local problem. In fact, based on the last two AMA elections it
if fairly obvious that it is an AMA problem. There seems to be some proof
that this problem exists all over the world.

My "contention" is that the hobby has changed since the welcomed (by the
AMA) advent of the checkbook modeler. How do we deal with him?



Jim Branaum
AMA 1428

Six_O'clock_High
Target_Lock@guns.com


Old Dec 03, 2002, 07:19 PM
John R. Agnew
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members

bobandvickey@aol.com (BobAndVickey) wrote in message news:<20021201230249.24143.00000231@mb-cv.aol.com>...
> Excellent thought out post Jim. The real answere is there are no one answere
> fits all situations. The methods I mentioned worked at my old club many years
> ago very well. My old club was small town made up of mostly of old timers, one
> was on B-17's in the great WWII. Our field was in a semi-dessert area so little
> mowing if any was required. No one answere will make everyone happy in a club.
> I just know that I have never seen the strong arm tactics work with volunteers.
> I am sorry but IMHO you can't get volunteerism out of people that have no sense
> of duty beyond me, myself and I, which I not only see in out hobby today but in
> hiring young people at the company I work for. It is full circle back to the
> RTF & ARF syndrom which started this discussion. People simply buy their
> gratification these days so why should they feel obligated to go beyond the
> check for membership? I still say focus on supporting those that want to help
> out a little or a lot and let the others bitch about not getting the small
> extra benefits. On a big club like yours you might just ask for quotes to
> contract the mowing out to a non-member company and raise the dues to cover it.
> Or start a rotating roster of volunteers with the understanding that if you
> drop the ball twice without good reason your off the list till next year. Most
> organizations I have belonged to that had any luck with volunteers had a person
> or a group that organized and screened volunteers. They also had a leader that
> was excellent with people and did not need a whip to get things done. If you
> can find one of these in your group then get him or her to be your head of
> volunteers and keep them at all costs as they are pure gold.
>
> Bob Ruth
>
> >BobAndVickey" <bobandvickey@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20021201143547.09040.00000134@mb-fd.aol.com...
> >> Boys it all sounds great on the bar stool of life.

> >
> >THE BIG SNIP WAS HERE!
> >
> >> Sounds like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
> >>
> >> Wake up boys this is more complex than you think here.
> >>
> >> Bob Ruth
> >>
> >>

> >
> >Bob,
> >In your post there were some very valid points, however the last one you
> >made is the all telling one.
> >
> >Over the years my club has tried several different methods of motivation,
> >all to the same general result. Most of the ideas you and others have
> >touched on are just not effective.
> >
> >We tried the extra rewards and got whines from the non workers about not
> >being able to work. We talked about raising the dues and refunding
> >according to work done and ran into the exact same problem. We even tried
> >(well, presented at a club meeting) the Field Nazi and his assigned worker
> >drone teams and had that one thrown out the door along with the presenter.
> >I think he is in Colorado now - not a joke.
> >
> >On close investigation we realized that the club has ONE mower, ONE tractor
> >and two fields. Hard to hammer Frank Flightpack when he has to fight with
> >149 other members for the right to work using club equipment. Hard to
> >hammer him for refusing to carry his personal mower in his compact car to
> >one of the fields and allow some idiots to cut rock with it, which happens
> >regularly no matter how hard we try to stop it. Any maintenance equipment
> >used by the general public will be destroyed in about 20% of the time you
> >and I would use it for. That means we do not wish to spend a lot of club
> >monies buying excess equipment to be damaged. We have learned to accept
> >that as a fact of life and as a group have decided not to expect any club
> >members to provide personal equipment under those conditions.
> >
> >Both of our fields have paved runways, so maintenance is a social issue
> >rather than a flight issue. Of late several of us over worked volunteers
> >(officers and the like) have taken the approach that if you cannot land on
> >the runway, maybe you should see that the grass gets mowed. It is not
> >pretty, but if you don't like it you are welcome to change it.
> >
> >You can rail all you wish about how rotten my club members are, but they
> >actually represent a fair cross section of society as I have observed in
> >across the country. We have our 10 or 15 working people and the rest of the
> >folks. As far as I know, it is the same in every single club in the
> >country.
> >
> >Part of the problem is the basic club organizational thesis is wrong in that
> >it assumes things that clearly are not factual - all the membership is
> >participating gladly in everything. Part of the responsibility for that bad
> >organizational concept lies with AMA and is being reinforced with the new
> >requirement to file by-laws of your club with the AMA for the next charter
> >year. No where in the sample by-laws provided (MA Doc #539) is the issue of
> >flying site work or other club support activities addressed. In fact, I
> >doubt that anyone has ever put much thought to the fact that we need the
> >cooperative participation of our membership to build thriving clubs and
> >thereby the AMA. No, the AMA has taken a shall, shall not, and must not
> >approach rather than a proactive approach to solving organizational
> >problems.
> >
> >This is the single biggest stumbling block to our future in this hobby I
> >have ever seen and no one want to address it. No, folks would rather "Big
> >Daddy" AMA put the proverbial fix on the problem. Folks, W*E* have to FIND
> >the fix and TELL the AMA what it is! "They" are not the enemy, no matter
> >how strange and out of step with reality 'they' seem. No, 'they' just have
> >tunnel vision for the 'parent' organization when that is (or should be)
> >clearly the wrong entity to worry about. Proof of that can be found in your
> >local club's officer corps. How many ran unopposed for the latest election?
> >Look at the AMA's latest contest and see how many ran unopposed. There is
> >absolute proof of the impact of the problem on a national scale. It is and
> >has been my contention that the AMA has taken NO action to generate
> >additional participation in the organization other than saying WE (club
> >members, club officers, and the like) must insist that the members also be
> >AMA members. That is of little or no value.
> >
> >Remember willing participation means more than just throwing money at the
> >problem. It is too bad that appears to be the AMA approach to a solution,
> >because it can be shown to be a negative solution. The government has tried
> >that approach to education for years and it has not worked yet. In fact, in
> >my lifetime education has gotten worse.
> >
> >If any of you who have bothered to read this to here happen to have any
> >ideas of how to generate willing participation and activity in a club,
> >please share them with us. It is very important to the future of our
> >organization and hobby.
> >
> >Sort of sorry for the rant, but this is a subject that has been getting a
> >lot of my attention lately and I have been unable to find an effective
> >solution.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Jim Branaum
> >AMA 1428
> > a.k.a
> >Six_O'clock_High
> >Target_Lock@guns.com


Life is pretty predictable. In any club, any group, any organization,
any situation, 10% will do 90% of the work. Another 10% will complain
about everything, and the 80% in the middle will use the facilities
gladly, help some and not say much. Once you accept that, you sleep
better. Not to worry.
Old Dec 04, 2002, 12:03 AM
Six_O'Clock_High
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Motivating club members


"John R. Agnew" <JohnAgnew2978@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:f10a6be.0212031619.2ad103d7@posting.google.co m...
> bobandvickey@aol.com (BobAndVickey) wrote in message

news:<20021201230249.24143.00000231@mb-cv.aol.com>...
> > Excellent thought out post Jim. The real answere is there are no one

answere
> > fits all situations. The methods I mentioned worked at my old club many

years
> > ago very well. My old club was small town made up of mostly of old

timers, one
> > was on B-17's in the great WWII. Our field was in a semi-dessert area so

little
> > mowing if any was required. No one answere will make everyone happy in a

club.
> > I just know that I have never seen the strong arm tactics work with

volunteers.
> > I am sorry but IMHO you can't get volunteerism out of people that have

no sense
> > of duty beyond me, myself and I, which I not only see in out hobby today

but in
> > hiring young people at the company I work for. It is full circle back

to the
> > RTF & ARF syndrom which started this discussion. People simply buy their
> > gratification these days so why should they feel obligated to go beyond

the
> > check for membership? I still say focus on supporting those that want to

help
> > out a little or a lot and let the others bitch about not getting the

small
> > extra benefits. On a big club like yours you might just ask for quotes

to
> > contract the mowing out to a non-member company and raise the dues to

cover it.
> > Or start a rotating roster of volunteers with the understanding that if

you
> > drop the ball twice without good reason your off the list till next

year. Most
> > organizations I have belonged to that had any luck with volunteers had a

person
> > or a group that organized and screened volunteers. They also had a

leader that
> > was excellent with people and did not need a whip to get things done. If

you
> > can find one of these in your group then get him or her to be your head

of
> > volunteers and keep them at all costs as they are pure gold.
> >
> > Bob Ruth
> >
> > >BobAndVickey" <bobandvickey@aol.com> wrote in message
> > >news:20021201143547.09040.00000134@mb-fd.aol.com...
> > >> Boys it all sounds great on the bar stool of life.
> > >
> > >THE BIG SNIP WAS HERE!
> > >
> > >> Sounds like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
> > >>
> > >> Wake up boys this is more complex than you think here.
> > >>
> > >> Bob Ruth
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >Bob,
> > >In your post there were some very valid points, however the last one

you
> > >made is the all telling one.
> > >
> > >Over the years my club has tried several different methods of

motivation,
> > >all to the same general result. Most of the ideas you and others have
> > >touched on are just not effective.
> > >
> > >We tried the extra rewards and got whines from the non workers about

not
> > >being able to work. We talked about raising the dues and refunding
> > >according to work done and ran into the exact same problem. We even

tried
> > >(well, presented at a club meeting) the Field Nazi and his assigned

worker
> > >drone teams and had that one thrown out the door along with the

presenter.
> > >I think he is in Colorado now - not a joke.
> > >
> > >On close investigation we realized that the club has ONE mower, ONE

tractor
> > >and two fields. Hard to hammer Frank Flightpack when he has to fight

with
> > >149 other members for the right to work using club equipment. Hard to
> > >hammer him for refusing to carry his personal mower in his compact car

to
> > >one of the fields and allow some idiots to cut rock with it, which

happens
> > >regularly no matter how hard we try to stop it. Any maintenance

equipment
> > >used by the general public will be destroyed in about 20% of the time

you
> > >and I would use it for. That means we do not wish to spend a lot of

club
> > >monies buying excess equipment to be damaged. We have learned to

accept
> > >that as a fact of life and as a group have decided not to expect any

club
> > >members to provide personal equipment under those conditions.
> > >
> > >Both of our fields have paved runways, so maintenance is a social issue
> > >rather than a flight issue. Of late several of us over worked

volunteers
> > >(officers and the like) have taken the approach that if you cannot land

on
> > >the runway, maybe you should see that the grass gets mowed. It is not
> > >pretty, but if you don't like it you are welcome to change it.
> > >
> > >You can rail all you wish about how rotten my club members are, but

they
> > >actually represent a fair cross section of society as I have observed

in
> > >across the country. We have our 10 or 15 working people and the rest

of the
> > >folks. As far as I know, it is the same in every single club in the
> > >country.
> > >
> > >Part of the problem is the basic club organizational thesis is wrong in

that
> > >it assumes things that clearly are not factual - all the membership is
> > >participating gladly in everything. Part of the responsibility for

that bad
> > >organizational concept lies with AMA and is being reinforced with the

new
> > >requirement to file by-laws of your club with the AMA for the next

charter
> > >year. No where in the sample by-laws provided (MA Doc #539) is the

issue of
> > >flying site work or other club support activities addressed. In fact,

I
> > >doubt that anyone has ever put much thought to the fact that we need

the
> > >cooperative participation of our membership to build thriving clubs and
> > >thereby the AMA. No, the AMA has taken a shall, shall not, and must

not
> > >approach rather than a proactive approach to solving organizational
> > >problems.
> > >
> > >This is the single biggest stumbling block to our future in this hobby

I
> > >have ever seen and no one want to address it. No, folks would rather

"Big
> > >Daddy" AMA put the proverbial fix on the problem. Folks, W*E* have to

FIND
> > >the fix and TELL the AMA what it is! "They" are not the enemy, no

matter
> > >how strange and out of step with reality 'they' seem. No, 'they' just

have
> > >tunnel vision for the 'parent' organization when that is (or should be)
> > >clearly the wrong entity to worry about. Proof of that can be found in

your
> > >local club's officer corps. How many ran unopposed for the latest

election?
> > >Look at the AMA's latest contest and see how many ran unopposed. There

is
> > >absolute proof of the impact of the problem on a national scale. It is

and
> > >has been my contention that the AMA has taken NO action to generate
> > >additional participation in the organization other than saying WE (club
> > >members, club officers, and the like) must insist that the members also

be
> > >AMA members. That is of little or no value.
> > >
> > >Remember willing participation means more than just throwing money at

the
> > >problem. It is too bad that appears to be the AMA approach to a

solution,
> > >because it can be shown to be a negative solution. The government has

tried
> > >that approach to education for years and it has not worked yet. In

fact, in
> > >my lifetime education has gotten worse.
> > >
> > >If any of you who have bothered to read this to here happen to have any
> > >ideas of how to generate willing participation and activity in a club,
> > >please share them with us. It is very important to the future of our
> > >organization and hobby.
> > >
> > >Sort of sorry for the rant, but this is a subject that has been getting

a
> > >lot of my attention lately and I have been unable to find an effective
> > >solution.
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >
> > >Jim Branaum
> > >AMA 1428
> > > a.k.a
> > >Six_O'clock_High
> > >Target_Lock@guns.com

>
> Life is pretty predictable. In any club, any group, any organization,
> any situation, 10% will do 90% of the work. Another 10% will complain
> about everything, and the 80% in the middle will use the facilities
> gladly, help some and not say much. Once you accept that, you sleep
> better. Not to worry.


LOL!

John,

You are right! However, I am happy and I do sleep fine.


 


Thread Tools