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Old Nov 29, 2007, 09:15 PM
Bob Templeton
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USA, AL, Huntsville
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Build Log
X-41 Deltastorm

Hi all!

I am starting this thread to hopefully give back to the community that has helped me so much. Thank you everyone!

I call it the X-41 Deltastorm. X for experimental, 41 for my years young, and Deltastorm because every new plane needs a cool name.

This all started a week ago when I was extremely frustrated with my helicopter and I had also totaled my beloved SU-27 Flanker. For a change, I needed to have some fun with this hobby instead of the frustration I had experienced for more than a week. So...I simply whipped-out the blu-core and the xacto and started cutting...no plans, no templates...just some inspiration and limited creativity. I had only one goal in mind: It had to look cool! (IMHO I accomplished this)

I had no idea how well or even if it would fly. I started this last Wednesday night. The weather was very rainy and very windy all the way through the weekend, so I had all my holiday time to work on this. I quickly started having "fun" again with this hobby of mine. I just kept building and building...not really thinking ahead too much, but hopefully enough to not become too much of a pain. By Sunday night she was complete. The weather wouldn't cooperate for the maiden flight until Tuesday. I couldn't wait! I was so excited I had dreams about it Monday night.

Tuesday at lunch I drove to the field and met my friends there for my maiden. That morning, I had even remeasured the entire plane and plugged-in all the numbers into a canard CG calculator I found in the canard thread just to plan for success as much as possible.

I throttled-up and it flew right out of my hand (in a good way). It was quite nose-heavy, but at least it was flying! I landed and adjusted, flew and landed and adjusted some more. It performed better and better after each tweak. I would just break into ear-to-ear grins while I was flying.

After fifteen flights, I've got her dialed-in pretty good. She flies awesome fast...and she flies awesome slow. She flies almost as good inverted as she does right-side-up. She turns on a dime, can accelerate vertically, has a slap-happy roll rate, and does slow high-alpha very well. She also glides like you wouldn't believe...almost to a point where you have to force her out of the sky . And...to boot...this is just about the most forgiving plane I have...thanks to the canards I'm guessing.

This is all a very, very, VERY happy accident...just because I wanted something that looked cool.

On to the numbers:
Length: 30" with motor and prop.
Wingspan: 28"
AUW: 17oz
Power: 2212-06 motor, 30A ESC, 3S 2100mAh 20C (about 230W with a 5.5x4.5 prop)
Paint Scheme: Ukraine SU-27 in honor of my dearly departed Flanker (see my blog).
Paint Used: Anita's All Purpose Acrylic Craft Paint from Hobby Lobby. Finished off with several coats of Minwax Semi-Gloss Polycrylic spray (blue can).
Speed: 134.43kph / 83.53mph (Fastest Doppler result to date).
Canards: Functional via custom mixing with the delta program in my DX7

Make sure you check out the X-42 Build thread as well!

Here are the demonstration videos. I think it's a pretty good representation of the performance envelope of this aircraft. Fast, slow, vertical, glides, etc. I hope you enjoy it.

Download the free plans at T3chDad.com

X-41 Deltastorm
X-41 Deltastorm (2 min 29 sec)


X-42 Deltastorm II (Dual Motor Thrust-vectoring)
Also refer to the X-42 thread!
X-42 Deltastorm II (2 min 27 sec)


X-43 Deltastorm III (Thrust-vectoring Yaw)
X-43 Deltastorm III (2 min 17 sec)


X-44 Deltastorm IV (Ducted Fan)
X-44 Deltastorm IV (1 min 36 sec)
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Old Nov 29, 2007, 09:34 PM
Too little play time...
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That, Sir, is a VERY cool looking aircraft!
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Old Nov 29, 2007, 09:43 PM
Brian
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This is an awesome design! Glad to see someone doing something different for a change!
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Old Nov 29, 2007, 09:43 PM
When's the next fly-in?
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Nicely done, Bob!

oh, and War Eagle!

Andy
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Old Nov 29, 2007, 09:58 PM
Postcards From The Purple Edge
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Holy crap, Dude! THAT's AWESOME! Well done! Very nice all around (design, flight, detailing...)

Do you have any pics of the linkage to the canard stabilators?

kendall
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Old Nov 29, 2007, 10:01 PM
Bob Templeton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuppertn
Do you have any pics of the linkage to the canard stabilators?
All will be revealed.
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Old Nov 29, 2007, 10:24 PM
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That is a super flyer, Bob, It has the good looks of the Firebat but no comparison when it comes to performance. Charles
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Old Nov 29, 2007, 11:00 PM
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Great videos and super neat plane. I hope to see it in person someday.
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Old Nov 29, 2007, 11:26 PM
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Beautiful work. I've been toying with an idea for a canard setup where I would run a pushrod from the opposite side of the control arm on each elevon servo, through the fuselage and to the canard on the other side. They would cross each other, one ove the other, through a slot in the fuse. My theory is that in up/down elevator, it would work much as yours does in the controls video, but during hard rolls, the canard and elevon on each side would be oriented the same. has this been done before and do you think it would work better?
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 12:59 AM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
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Well done. A new parkjet.
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 02:58 AM
Battling on regardless
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Well done indeed, I think the F-15 can take a back seat for a bit........honey where's my knife?

Cheekers,
It has been done and works beautifully. Check out the Star Cobra by Golem http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677608
I don't know if it will work with the control rods on oposing sides of the servo. In the "cobra" both control rods come off the same side of each servo.

Here's couple of pics of mine.
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 06:07 AM
Fly long and land softly
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Great new plane! I've seen it fly several times. Impressive!

Sorry I missed the videoing. Thanks for sharing.

Have Bluecor and Xacto and need something bigger than my small electrics for the windyer days, which you've already shown me this plane does well in!

Jim
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 07:28 AM
One of the usual suspects
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canard addict
That is a super flyer, Bob, It has the good looks of the Firebat but no comparison when it comes to performance. Charles
I'm pretty sure that was a compliment.

Very kewl plane! Can't wait to see the plans!!!

Yer video go-to guy, V.
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 07:37 AM
glider pilot in training
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Please say plans are coming soon.
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 07:38 AM
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Looks great, the shape reminds me of the FireFox, which got stolen from the Russians by Clint Eastwood.

Del
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 07:55 AM
-+- PhlatBoyz -+-
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Nice
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 07:56 AM
glider pilot in training
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del-Dredd
Looks great, the shape reminds me of the FireFox, which got stolen from the Russians by Clint Eastwood.

Del

Thats exactly what i was thinking.
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 07:57 AM
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I just saw that movie again with the firefox, it reminds me of that plane too, that would make a great paint scheme for this bird!
Mark
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 08:07 AM
Bob Templeton
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Thanks for all the kind comments. Yes, there have been numerous references to Firefox from people who've seen it in real life as well. It wasn't intended, but I can think of worse things to be compared to .

I do want to post plans...it's just a matter of making them. I'll have to get and learn a new drawing/CAD program. I will do it...hopefully within a week. There's really only four template pieces that you need (wing surface, fuse side, vertical stab, and canard). Everything else is just a rectangle.
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 08:46 AM
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I believe the Firefox and Firebat are the same model in different countries. I built and demolished two of them at one maiden each. It was a big seller but just did not fly well The crossed push rod controlled elevons can be done with four servos. See Magic 612's method in the Canard Forum. Charles
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 09:26 AM
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It is Firefox!!!





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Old Nov 30, 2007, 09:39 AM
Bob Templeton
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Here is the photo who's top-down lines I really liked. It was the inspiration for the project. I don't have any idea what it is...I saw it in a jet fly-in posting somewhere on rcgroups.

.
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 09:42 AM
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SGTalon, I see what you mean now. Is not that a scale type? I meant it also favors the ARF model Firebat/Firfox. Whatever, it's a fine piece of work. Charles
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 10:53 AM
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techDad,
nice design and cool paint-job! love delta-canards anyway. congrats man!

PS: the tiger design plane above seems to have the eurofighter front section attached to a different wing with twin tails.. hmmm.
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 01:24 PM
Bob Templeton
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I updated first post with todays Doppler Speed results.
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Old Dec 01, 2007, 07:48 PM
Bob Templeton
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Added build pictures.
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Old Dec 01, 2007, 09:43 PM
Postcards From The Purple Edge
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How are those plans coming along, Dad?

Is that the Grayson Hobbies 2212-06 combo you have on there?

kendall
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Old Dec 01, 2007, 09:55 PM
Bob Templeton
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Slow on the plans. I just got Illustrator and I'm figuring out that program. Yes it's the Grayson motor.
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Old Dec 01, 2007, 10:07 PM
Postcards From The Purple Edge
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No problem. Take your time. I'm just sitting here with my nice, warm hot wire poised to cut the moment you post'em. Already ordered the motor.
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Old Dec 02, 2007, 11:31 AM
Bob Templeton
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Plans are up. Added some detail pics.
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Old Dec 02, 2007, 07:48 PM
quick, stretch into a monster!
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man i can't wait until christmas rolls around...

Regards,

Nick
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Old Dec 02, 2007, 09:23 PM
Starting to Rebuild
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Dude that is one slick plane. Good job.
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Old Dec 02, 2007, 09:57 PM
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i built a VERY similar plane, minus the devilish good looks and cool canard. i've been wondering what function the angle on the v-stabs serves on these planes? mine are perpendicular to the wing and i'm wondering if i need to angle them a bit.
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Old Dec 02, 2007, 10:06 PM
Bob Templeton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev0383
i've been wondering what function the angle on the v-stabs serves on these planes? mine are perpendicular to the wing and i'm wondering if i need to angle them a bit.
Yes, the angle serves a very, very critical function...looks!

On the technical side, I have no idea if it serves any aerodynamic purpose.
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Old Dec 02, 2007, 11:22 PM
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Spaeking of the tail fin angle. What is the "lean out" angle? Also are they turned outward as well?

Thanks in advance.
Andrew.
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Old Dec 03, 2007, 07:58 AM
Bob Templeton
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They are parallel to the line on the plans from the LE of the main wing. The angle is whatever looks right to you.
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Old Dec 03, 2007, 12:48 PM
medium-sized Lewbowski
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What did you use for paint?
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Old Dec 03, 2007, 12:59 PM
Bob Templeton
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$.57 cheepo craft paint from my local Hobby Lobby. After two coats, the entire aircraft was clear-coated with Minwax Semi-Gloss Polycrylic (spray). For the clear coat, go to Lowe's then to the stain isle. Look for the blue can. It comes both in spray and liquid, Satin, Semi-Gloss, and Gloss.
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Old Dec 03, 2007, 04:06 PM
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are there any in particular brand names i should be looking for?
there's a hobby lobby close by and i get confused everyime looking for paint and glu and the employess doesn't know jack and crap about foam safe paint and glue.
TIA
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Old Dec 03, 2007, 04:23 PM
Bob Templeton
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Anita's All Purpose Acrylic.

I used Medium Blue 11009, Grey 11043, and White.
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 02:12 PM
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started

got started on mine this morning, scaled the plans for a wingspan of 44 inches
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 02:25 PM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
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Looking good Randy,you gon'a fill this one full of sand? Lol
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 06:13 PM
Bob Templeton
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Great job Randy! I'm interested to hear how she flies with a mid motor mount.

=================================================

All: I've been noticing wing oscillation (flapping), but only at very high speeds (80+mph). You may want to add something to increase wing rigidity. I'll experiment more with this issue as soon as I have the time.
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 10:19 PM
Victoria Super Mortem
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Wicked Coool!

T3chDad,

I love it. I just printed out the plans. I was wondering if you'd mind me powering it with twin Vasa 55 EDF units. I've got these two really nice carbon fiber fan units with these even cooler inrunner brushless motors just sitting around doing nothing. The two of them together run on their own Thunderbird 18 and use a single 4S 20C 1800 pack and the air flow is phenomenal. Since they both pull just under 17 amps at 90% throttle, the pack easily gives them the power they need and decent flight times. I know it would require some modification, but I think your plane is worth "bashing" into a twin EDF configuration. I don't know how I'll do it, but I'll try to document it along the way. Hopefully it will come out really nice, and be a compliment to your design. If I screw it up, I'll try not to post too much about it.. LOL... Love the plane.

Bo
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 10:29 PM
Bob Templeton
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Thank you. You do whatever you want! It's your plane. I actually thought about it for a Mk II version, but you'll beat me to the punch as I was only going to do lower engine nacelles (ala SU-27) for looks.
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 10:35 PM
Fly now crash later
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I just printed out the plans at 75%. Looks great thanks.
Hmm, I have an XF fan doing nothing.
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Old Dec 05, 2007, 02:08 AM
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mid mount

If she flys half as good as my F-22 i will be very happy. i have been useing the mid mount location on most of my jets and have been very happy, helps on getting the CG right and cuts down on broken props on landing.
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Old Dec 05, 2007, 01:42 PM
Glassman
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Randy;

That is one awesome looking plane. Can you get video of the maiden? I definately want to build this, and like the mid-engine design - looks cool and may save some props.

Good luck with it

Terry
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Old Dec 05, 2007, 02:03 PM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
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There you go Terry, Randys is cleaned up and has much more rounded fus

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=740049
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Old Dec 05, 2007, 02:39 PM
Glassman
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Thanks a lot
Terry
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Old Dec 05, 2007, 09:26 PM
Bob Templeton
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Ok...the Deltastorm handles wind pretty well. The problem lies when the pilot is too cocky with just HOW MUCH WIND he thinks the Deltastorm can handle...or just HOW MUCH WIND he himself can handle for that matter. What you see below is the result of bad judgment (read idiocy) on the part of the pilot.

Winds were probably 20-25mph. I let go and it went straight up. After very quickly realizing this was NOT a good idea, and I regained control, I turned down wind with too little power and it simply fell out of the sky. While ground speed was very high as a result of the wind, airspeed might have been less than zero. Yet another n00bie mistake...on several levels.

I'm sure she'll fly again...I'll probably find the time for repairs/rebuild this weekend.
.
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Old Dec 05, 2007, 09:41 PM
When's the next fly-in?
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What?!?! No carbon fiber in that fuse? Bet there will be some now!

Sorry to hear about the crash, Bob. Live and learn, eh?

Hope to get to see that thing fly sometime soon.

Andy
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Old Dec 05, 2007, 09:56 PM
Bob Templeton
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There was actually. Just not enough I guess.
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Old Dec 05, 2007, 10:04 PM
Fly now crash later
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The box fuse should be good enough, If you start adding more CF the next crash will move the damage to the next weakest spot. right now it's a pretty simply fix. best solution, don't crash. I know easier said then done. we've all had those days.
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Old Dec 07, 2007, 10:08 PM
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The X-41 flys well in wind, just converted to edf and will see how it goes.
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Old Dec 08, 2007, 08:32 AM
Bob Templeton
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That's great! I love it...good paint scheme too. I'm very interested on EDF performance.

Thanks for the picture.
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Old Dec 08, 2007, 10:48 AM
Fly long and land softly
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Best Solution -- Don't Crash! -- Now you tell me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davecrash
The box fuse should be good enough, If you start adding more CF the next crash will move the damage to the next weakest spot. right now it's a pretty simply fix. best solution, don't crash. I know easier said then done. we've all had those days.
Davecrash:

Love you moniker and your advice. Why did you not tell me that several years ago!?

Bob, hope your X41 will be back in the air soon.


Jim, too often the crasher! but not as often as I once did. And Bluecor Bounces Better!
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Old Dec 08, 2007, 11:54 AM
Bob Templeton
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I'm working on it right now...

It should be in the air within the hour!
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Old Dec 08, 2007, 12:20 PM
Fly now crash later
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Marconnet
Davecrash:

Love you moniker and your advice. Why did you not tell me that several years ago!?

Bob, hope your X41 will be back in the air soon.


Jim, too often the crasher! but not as often as I once did. And Bluecor Bounces Better!
I'm in the fastest foam plane challenge, (see here )we are trying to see how fast you can make a foam plane go before it Disintegrates. hence "at the speed of foam". still have the plans ready for this one, just haven't gotten around to cutting it out yet.
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Old Dec 08, 2007, 07:37 PM
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Thus Far....

Here's what I have thus far.... BTW, CharM, I love your EDF X41...way cool looking.
As for mine, I did some testing first. I have a 64mm EDF that puts out 22 oz of thrust on my "thrust o meter", but it weighs 6 oz. w/speed controll and all, so it's a net of 16 oz of thrust. These two little 55mm EDF units each put out 14 oz of thrust and they weigh only 4 oz. with speed control and all, so they net 10 oz each, which multiplied by 2 equals 20 oz. net. So I chose (what I really wanted to do in the first place..LOL..) to put the two fan units in the X-41.
T3chDad, I read what you wrote about wing flutter...I think and decided to give the wing a little re-inforcement by making it symetrical. I will probably use foam longerons from the root to the tip on top of the bluecore then sheet it with 1mm depron. This should give it a nice airfoil and add some strength without being too heavy.
Plans for the intakes and exhaust are pretty straight-forward in my head.. we'll see how they come out in real life..LOL...
I've got both fan units and bl controllers working in near perfect harmony at all speed levels with some special programming in the DX7 and I'm happy so far with how it's going. Here's a few pictures...

Bo
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Old Dec 08, 2007, 09:26 PM
Bob Templeton
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I love to see where everyone is going with this design. I hope you're all having as much fun a I am with this design!

After repairs were complete, I took her out and got in two good flight before I trashed the motor. Maybe I need to look at one of these EDF setups.
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Old Dec 10, 2007, 12:04 PM
Respect My Authauriti!!!!
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I also took your plans and added a little something my of own. I put slots and tabs on all of the pieces to give it a little rigidness or rigidity. Which ever one of them is a word. It also makes it an easy puzzle to put together. I will post them if you want after i build my first one to see if it all goes together alright.

How did you trash your Grayson motor?
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Old Dec 10, 2007, 12:19 PM
Bob Templeton
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Sure! Post the plans with the puzzle pieces. If you already haven't figured it out, I stink at making plans .

My motor was trashed when I was doing some low-altitude/low-speed/high-alpha. She was going to "land", and I didn't want her to. I gunned it, but it was too late. She hit ass-down, WOT. Bent the shaft horribly and busted one of the bearings in the motor (no damage to the X-41). I've already got a replacement ordered...it's not worth $15 for me to try and fix the motor.
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Old Dec 20, 2007, 01:04 AM
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Well, I simply love this design....but thought that I would put a more cambered wing on it, instead of a simple flat foam wing. What I did was glue the carbon fiber rod (wing spar) on top of the main wing. Then I cut another set of wings, rounded them over the corner of my work bench, and then glued them over the Wing Spar. The Wing Spar/Carbon Tube provides the upper wing curve. I then trimmed the leading edge to round it out, and wet sanded it smooth with 220 grit sandpaper.

Also, since it now has a hollow wing...I sunk the Servos into the wing so they're now flush with the top part of the wing. I also cut slots in the top wing so the Vertical Stabs are locked into place.

Before I get much further, though...I have a question on the forward Canard. I see in the pictures on the first post that a DX7 was being used, and what looks like a AR6100E receiver. My question is this....how do you mix the canard in the radio? What channel is the canard servo plugged into?

Here are some pix of the build so far...and thanks for the Canard answer...in advance
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Old Dec 20, 2007, 06:33 AM
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mixing

on mine i have the Canard servo pluged in to the rudder channel and mixed with the elevons, lets me use the rudder stick also to do really wild stuff with the canard. or you can plug into the flap channel and mix
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Old Dec 20, 2007, 10:58 PM
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hello everyone,
maidened mine today, and i must say it flew of my hands as if it was on rails.
it flew great but for some odd reason when it went on a downward spiral, it was very hard to recover from it. lawn dart it a couple of time but no harm done just bent the nose in a bit.
as long as i flew on half throttle it was fine sonn as i open it up, turns were very hard to control.
overall great plane, i need to adjust to it. i got so used to the eurofighter.
thanks for a great plane.
could having the slightest offset on the canards do this spiral?
TIA
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Old Dec 21, 2007, 06:39 AM
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Could it have been a spin? Delta types love to spin and recovery is about 40% chance. Charles
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Old Dec 21, 2007, 07:59 AM
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40% chance....wow...i take it that's for experienced flyers. and for beginners like me, i think it would be significantly less. good think i retired the plane before i did any major damage.
thanks
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Old Dec 21, 2007, 08:25 AM
Bob Templeton
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I don't know about that 40% figure. I put the mine through diving rolls and spins on every flight and haven't had a problem....yet. I've crashed* mine now 4 times. Every time it was doing high-alpha/low speed passes about a meter off the deck. It could be my n00bieness since I've only been flying since May, but in every case, it happens during or immediately after a turn down-wind...it just fell out of the sky.

If someone can improve on the design, that's great. Please, share your ideas and experience to make this a better plane.

*Crash: An unplanned landing that requires repairs afterward.
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Old Dec 21, 2007, 09:37 PM
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T3chDad, you hit on the nose, i can't quite find the word, but that's it,"it just fell out of the sky" and "turn down wind"
over all it looks awesome flying.
thanks
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Old Dec 21, 2007, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randynsaudi
on mine i have the Canard servo pluged in to the rudder channel and mixed with the elevons, lets me use the rudder stick also to do really wild stuff with the canard. or you can plug into the flap channel and mix
I plugged the canard into the Rudder Channel, and mixed it ELEVATOR-> RUDDER, and it works 1/2 the time. If I pull up...the canard works correctly. If I push down...it doesn't. I'm new to the mixing world....I have a DX7....so I'm asking for some help...please. Plane is done (minus paint)...but won't fly it until I get that canard working right.

As for the spins...a few thoughts:

1. It could be that when in a high alpha, the canard is pushing the wing into a hard stall (main wing is stalled, but canard isn't and holds the nose up). So long as the canard is tied/mixed directly to the elevator, I'm thinking that the stall would be difficult to recover from. If, however, you can turn off the mix, and push the canard down while maintaining a neutral...or maybe up elevator, it would force the nose down and help recover from the stall. Just a thought....haven't flight tested to see if I'm right or not.

2. I do know that the canard on real planes is suppose to stall before the main wing, thereby preventing stalls (canard stalls and drops the nose before the main wing stalls). I could be that the canard is out of trim....I'm thinking that the canard should be slight up, and use down elevator trim to counter it. That way the canard should stall before the main wing.

3. Since the main wing in this design is a flat foam wing, without camber...it will only like high speeds. At low speeds, or high angle of attacks...it will stall before a traditional cambered wing because there is no Bernoulli effect to produce lift. A flat wing produces lift by having an up-angle into the wing (Angle-Of-Attack - AOA). If that AOA is too low...no lift. if too high...the air will be disrupted over the wing...and no lift. A camber helps keep the air flowing over the wing top at high AOA...producing lift...and therefore would be better at higher AOA and slower speeds. . I built mine with a camber...will be interesting to see if it likes low speeds. I hope to maiden this weekend...as soon as I figure the canard mix out

Thanks in advance for any tips on the mixing. Pix of the DX7 display would also help...if possible

-Eric
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Old Dec 22, 2007, 10:54 AM
Bob Templeton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efether
I plugged the canard into the Rudder Channel, and mixed it ELEVATOR-> RUDDER, and it works 1/2 the time. If I pull up...the canard works correctly. If I push down...it doesn't. I'm new to the mixing world....I have a DX7....so I'm asking for some help...please. Plane is done (minus paint)...but won't fly it until I get that canard working right.

-Eric
I plugged my canard servo into the flap channel. Here is a pick of my custom mix.
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Old Dec 22, 2007, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3chDad
I plugged my canard servo into the flap channel. Here is a pick of my custom mix.
Thank you. That was perfect. I wasn't sure if it was possible to alter the top number (30% on your pic)....I couldn't figure out how to manipulate that number before. As soon as I saw your pic...I knew it was possible...so then re-re-re-read the manual...no help there...and spent about 10 minutes on the radio playing with it until I figured out how to set it up. So...thank you.

I have it setup on the Rudder and toggled to the MIX switch. That way, if I do run into an aggravated stall...I can turn off the canard and fly it like a delta. Should fly fine without it.

Also, was talking with my Friend Dennis (also on this forum) about the issues at higher speeds. The thought bouncing between us was the canard. That there may be too much slop in the canard, so at high speeds...it might shake or shimmy...and cause turning issues. Just a thought.

Now that I have the mix set up...hope to maiden soon as the weather breaks (windy and rainy down here in Atlanta). As soon as it maidens...will paint and post pics and video. In the meantime, here's a couple of it unpainted.

Thanks again,
Eric
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Old Dec 22, 2007, 09:35 PM
quick, stretch into a monster!
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you guys think this will fly with an e-flite park 400? i should be able to get one from grandpa for christmas(he's my only living relative that flies RC), and if i don't get that he'll give me cash and i'll get the grayson package. alo, there's a 1600 MAH 3s under that tree with my name on it... =D

Regards,

Nick
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Old Dec 22, 2007, 09:58 PM
Bob Templeton
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efether: Glad to help. I can't wait for your flight report. Weather sucks here in Huntsville too. Christmas Eve looks to be an awesome day here for flying I hope you get her in the air soon.

Mr.Me: Depending on the gearbox and prop, that 400 may do ok. My AUW is 17oz and that's apparently the starting point for the park 400 motor specs. I just don't have any experience with it. After I trashed my motor, I got a new Suppo 2212-06 from www.lightflightrc.com. They have a great deal on a combo with a 30A speed controller for $38 shipped.
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Old Dec 22, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Me
you guys think this will fly with an e-flite park 400? i should be able to get one from grandpa for christmas(he's my only living relative that flies RC), and if i don't get that he'll give me cash and i'll get the grayson package. alo, there's a 1600 MAH 3s under that tree with my name on it... =D

Regards,

Nick
Nick:

Yeah...the Park 400 should be okay with this plane. It won't do anything nutz...but should keep it in the air. It's rated for planes from 10-20 oz. Mine's UAW is 13.1 oz (minus paint)....so it falls in the middle of the rated plane weight.

If $$$ is your issue, and it sounds like it is...you may want to shop at some of the cheap Chinese sites...like:

www.blackdogrc.com
www.lightflightrc.com

Lightflightrc sells four servos for $25, which in my opinion, are as good as HS-55's, for about 1/2 the price. Also, I'm using the Suppo 2212-06 and the Suppo 30 Amp ESC. That combo will put you back $32. Add to that the servos for $25, and you have $57 in the electrics...plus that 3S your getting for Christmas....and about $0.60 worth of Blue Fan-Fold construction foam...you'll have a whopping $57.60 plus receiver into this plane. Oh...and if you use an FM transmitter, Lightflight sells receivers for about $17 (including crystal)...so that puts the investment up to $74.60 for this plane. Not too shabby (and you'll have 1 servo to spare).

I hope this helps.

-Eric
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Old Dec 22, 2007, 10:27 PM
Bob Templeton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efether
If $$$ is your issue, and it sounds like it is...you may want to shop at some of the cheap Chinese sites...like:

www.blackdogrc.com
www.lightflightrc.com
I may be splitting hairs, but both of theses sites are American. I've ordered from lightflightrc many times...great service and prices.
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Old Dec 22, 2007, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3chDad
I may be splitting hairs, but both of theses sites are American. I've ordered from lightflightrc many times...great service and prices.
Sorry...poor wording on my part. American Sites. Cheap Chinese products.

-Eric
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Old Dec 23, 2007, 10:43 AM
quick, stretch into a monster!
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awesome! i've already got an RX, a TX, and 2 servos on a modified smart dart, and it doesn't fly at all with a j250 in a GWS C gearbox turning a 9X6(i think)SF, with a 15 amp speed control and an e-flite 9.6 volt 650MAH NiMh. no that i think about it, how about a direct drive j250? i think the 3 cell battery would be the end of it though...

Regards,

Nick
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Old Dec 23, 2007, 08:56 PM
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Maiden Flight Report

Okay, winds died down to about 3-5 mph this evening...about sunset. Decided to grab the ol' X-41 and take it out for her maiden flight. First...here's my setup:

Motor: SUPPO 2212-06
ESC: Suppo 30 Amp
Prop: APC 5x5
Battery: TP 3S1320
Servos: Tower Pro 9g
Receiver/Radio: AR6100E / Spektrum DX7
AUW: 13.1 oz.

Okay, temp was about 43 deg F, winds 3-5 MPH. On launch, I had the canard locked in place and I flew it as a Delta Wing. Took me about 45 seconds after launch to get it trimmed out, probably because I had about 3 deg up angle on the canard by design, so that the canard would stall before the main wing. As a Delta flier (Canard locked), it flew very well. CG was neutral to a hair tail heavy. Nothing major. Flew very nice. It was also fast...would guess speeds in the 80 MPH range...plus or minus. Was pleasantly surprised at how well it handled the speed. It might be my cambered wing mod that helped, but it flew very nice at all speed ranges, from slow to fast.

Now, when I turned on the Canard, that was mixed 30/35% per T3chDad's recommendation....HOLY COW!!! I pulled up on the Elevator, and that plane snapped into a Cobra so fast...it was going...50-60 MPH, I pull back on the stick...and that thing snapped vertical and stopped!!! I rammed the throttle full and pushed down on the stick to get it back into normal flight...but it still hung there...I manually pushed the canard down. It finally nosed over after about 2-3 seconds and resumed flight. When the canard was active in the mix...the X-41 is HYPER SENSITIVE to any and all elevator movements. When turned off...the plane flew very nice and predictable. I tested the plane where I used the canard for the elevator and left the Elevons neutral. It tracked in the vertical as any plane with a conventional elevator would. I also tested it with reduced throttle, with full up canard and full down elevon...it slowed to a crawl, as the canard acted as a speed brake, yet flew level. Nice Lastly, it should be noted that the roll rate was faster than I could count. I would estimate 5-7 full rolls per second. A blur.

So, here's my recommendations:

1. This plane is NOT for the beginner or intermediate It's for the advanced or better. It's fast, and extreme in it's maneuverability with the canard. If anyone less than advanced wants to fly this plane...take these recommendations to heart, and put serious consideration to #4 below.

2. I would put the canard to the rudder channel, so it can be controlled independently of the elevons.

3. If the canard is to be mixed with the elevator, set up the radio where you can turn the mix on or off. The plane flies just fine without the canard's input.

4. As a consideration for the less advanced pilot, put the canards on the elevator channel and use the main-wings controls as ailerons only. Flies fine like this. OR glue the canard in place and just use the elevons.

5. Have at least a 1;1 thrust-to-weight. If you put this thing into a cobra by accident...you'll need the power to get out of it. (sorry kid, after test flying it...I don't think the E-Flight 400 is big enough).

6. Dual rates and LOTS of expo. I can see how people are getting into trouble with this plane. The Vertical controls are STUPID SENSITIVE with the canard mix, and if not treated with a VERY delicate touch...the plane will snap into a high AOA condition faster than you can blink, and if underpowered or if you're slow on the sticks....BAM...you're in an aggravated stall. Also, the roll rate is well beyond any beginner or intermediate at full rates. I would estimate 60-70% expo and 50-60% deflection for low rates. Will test tomorrow to see if this is about right. Assuming the weather holds.

7. Indicated CG is a tad too far to the rear. I'd move it forward about 1/4-1/2". With the TP 3s1320, I would estimate the need to add about 1/4 oz of ballast to the nose. It's in the paint shop right now...I'll edit this post later when I get an accurate weight.

All in all....a VERY nice airplane...but one to be treated with respect and caution. I look forward to Dennis's flight report with the flat wing design...but with a Cambered wing...I'd give it a thumbs up

-Eric
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Old Dec 23, 2007, 10:32 PM
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Great report, Eric, You must be having a ball with it. I don't know what a cobra is but i'll bet it will do a great flat spin. Charles
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Old Dec 23, 2007, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canard addict
Great report, Eric, You must be having a ball with it. I don't know what a cobra is but i'll bet it will do a great flat spin. Charles
Here's a vid of a Su-33 doing a cobra from the flight sim LOMAC. Gives you an idea...except, it's nose didn't want to drop.

Cobra with Su-33 on Lock On Air Combat Simulation (0 min 40 sec)


-Eric
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Old Dec 24, 2007, 09:24 AM
Bob Templeton
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Eric, thank you for the kind words on the plane and an excellent flight report! Your very constructive criticism is greatly appreciated...

It's funny, I run almost the exact same setup as you (motor, ESC, Tx/Rx, servos) and we get such different flight behavior. My elevator and aileron expo is %30 with %100 throws on the canard servo and %125 on the elevons. My AUW is 4oz heavier than you. I see nowhere near the elevator touchiness that you describe. I don't like to move my sticks very much at all, so it may just be that I'm used to very sensitive controls. I need to throw my heli's pitch gauge on the canard to see what kind of throws I'm getting. I do like my CG at the very forward end of the range I gave. If I yank back on the stick full, it noses up like it's going to do a loop and snaps out of the loop about at the top...guessing from a canard stall. If I had to guess, your canard throws are more than mine. Have to taken a look at the control video? Until I can get a pitch gauge on that canard, It might give you an idea of the throws I've got.

Thanks again!
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Old Dec 24, 2007, 01:19 PM
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Final pix after painting...no criticism please...I used a paint can

Oh...and I added 1/4 oz to the very nose of the plane...just inside the air intake. Helped balance it out better. Will try to get it up today...although, with it being Christmas eve...I'm not holding my breath....kids are driving me nut

-Eric
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Old Dec 24, 2007, 01:35 PM
Bob Templeton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efether
...I used a paint can
Instead of a brush?

Just kidding...Good job.

Merry Christmas.
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Old Dec 24, 2007, 03:53 PM
Respect My Authauriti!!!!
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I just finished mine up today aswell It looks really nice so I can not wait to take some pics and post my plans with the slots and notches. It went together super easy.

Merry Christmas Everyone,

Fanatic
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Old Dec 24, 2007, 07:05 PM
He Did WHAT? "AGAIN?"
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Mine been done for a few weeks but needed to play around with the mixing before I finished it off today. Because of the gray cloudy skies in the Pacific Northwest I needed something a little brighter in color so I could track it well. I'm running a Little Screamer Park Jet motor so it should scoot nicely across the sky on a 18 amp draw. Don't have a weight on this yet and need better weather to test it but looks fun. I changed a few things but nothing major and can't wait to give it a toss.

Thanks, Kosh
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Old Dec 24, 2007, 10:04 PM
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This thread is a fun place! It seems to me that the sharp hump at the canopy could be rounded off a little to form more of an airfoil of the fuselage. The air may possibly lose some turbulance to the rear and give a bit more stability to the rudders. Sometimes it is amazing what a small change can do. Charles
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Old Dec 24, 2007, 11:32 PM
Bob Templeton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosh28
Mine been done for a few weeks but needed to play around with the mixing before I finished it off today. Because of the gray cloudy skies in the Pacific Northwest I needed something a little brighter in color so I could track it well. I'm running a Little Screamer Park Jet motor so it should scoot nicely across the sky on a 18 amp draw. Don't have a weight on this yet and need better weather to test it but looks fun. I changed a few things but nothing major and can't wait to give it a toss.

Thanks, Kosh
I love it man! Simply beautiful! You did an awesome job! I love this thread too, it's very cool to see what people are doing with this plane.

Merry Christmas everyone!
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Old Dec 26, 2007, 11:49 AM
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My Updated Plans

Hello Everyone,

Like I said before I completed my X-41 but it is not painted yet. I have to wait for some warmer weather to get my maiden flight in. I aswell am running the 2212-06 setup, but I am running a much larger battery. I don't know how you guys are keeping those 1320 mah batts cool with that suppo motor. I have been running some 1500 mah and those were getting pretty warm. So for this plane and my future ones I bought some 2100 mah batts. The only problem with those is that they were to wide for the stock setup of the X-41. So when I redesigned it I made two different plans. One is normal with the slots and tabs and the other has an extra wide fuse, around 2" wide.

Thanks for the great plane T3chdad. I haven't flown it yet but it sure was fun to build. Judging by all the other reviews it flies great too.

Sorry everyone I do not know how to tile the plans so they are only in 36x48 form.

Fanatic
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Old Dec 26, 2007, 01:24 PM
Bob Templeton
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The plans are awesome Fanatic! Thank you so much. Nice job on the plane too. I can't wait to see her painted.

Bob
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Old Dec 27, 2007, 02:49 PM
Respect My Authauriti!!!!
Foam Fanatic's Avatar
United States, MO, Troy
Joined Jul 2007
141 Posts
The painting might get done today depending on my level of laziness Don't know what kind of scheme I am going to go for yet.

Your very welcome for the plans. Thanks again for the plane.

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Old Dec 27, 2007, 05:19 PM
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codesource's Avatar
Seattle, WA
Joined Oct 2006
142 Posts
X-41, slightly modded.....

Hey guys!
Thought I'd post a few pics of my version of your X-41. I call it the Delta-1 because it was my first true delta.
I went with a single vertical stab mounted on the aft deck. I also extended the elevons by about 15% to bring them more in line with my servos, which I mounted through the rear fuse on both sides. I also moved the stick mount further forward bringing it in to the rear of the fuse.
I also smoothened or rounded the leading edge near the root where it meets the fuselage, to match the smoothened fuse top.
A bit of the same treatment for the wing tips...lol
For the fuselage, I smoothened the top and went with twin access hatches, one large one (the canopy) and an aft hatch that gives access to the rx and esc. Both hatches are held on with neodymium magnets and have not come loose in aggressive flight.
For power, I'm currently running a LittleScreamers Purple Peril with an APC 6.5 x 5.5 E prop and a TP 1320 3S1p Prolite. Amp draw is minimal at 10.5 amps WOT!!!!! It goes vertical no problem and on paper I can get 18 minutes of flight time to 80% of the pack!! I've just been keeping it to 12.5 mins though, this is plenty of time for me.....
For the canards, I'm running 30% up and 18% down, mixed on my DX7 as elevator to flap. This allows me to turn off the canards if I want. It flys just as good without them! With them turned on, loops are insanely tight and look more like backwards waterfalls.
I also added a "pre-loaded" carbon strip spar. You just cut a slot and glue it in flush with the surface. This, on large corded wings (namely Deltas) adds a significant amount of strength and eliminates the need for a ply doubler where carbon rods would typically meet. I have not seen any flex in this wing on inside or outside loops.
Anyways, This plane flies great and has become one of my favorites.
I may try propping up a little next and see what happens......

Enjoy!
-Codesource
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Last edited by codesource; Dec 27, 2007 at 05:26 PM.
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Old Dec 28, 2007, 07:26 AM
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smkn951's Avatar
United States, HI, Kapolei
Joined Jan 2007
1,440 Posts
hello everyone,
well flew the "x" again yesterday, and after adjusting the cg a bit forward she was stable.
as for the "falling " syndrome, got to try it a couple of times and recovered from it.
nice plane, had a couple of parents looking in amazement while they were flying their aero ace or airhogs with their kids.
told them it was all scratchbuilt from insulation and rediboard foam.
thanks everyone.
btw the falling syndrome is because of lack of speed right? coz when i tried to do a vertical and shut the throttle off, it fliped nose down and began to spiral. countering with the controls didn't help till i applied throttle again.
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Old Dec 28, 2007, 09:19 AM
Bob Templeton
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USA, AL, Huntsville
Joined Apr 2007
3,911 Posts
Codesource: That's one of the best quality builds I've seen...excellent. I'm glad everyone is enjoying this plane and being creative with the inspiration.

Smkn951: I think you're right. I got myself into a little trouble similar to yours yesterday, and WOT was my friend.
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Old Dec 28, 2007, 01:02 PM
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rcplanefubar's Avatar
St. Paul MN
Joined Jun 2007
74 Posts
I think I found the perfect first build for my brother in-law. He has taken an interest in watching me build my own. Anyone have any good suggestions for a low power system. Cheaper the better. I have a 370 brushed motor and 5:1 gearbox from a GP Flatout left over. Wonder with the right prop this would work for him.
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Old Dec 28, 2007, 03:29 PM
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smkn951's Avatar
United States, HI, Kapolei
Joined Jan 2007
1,440 Posts
cheap is my friend.....
long max 1000 mah 3 cell 20 c=16.00
emax out runner= 5.95
5 inch prop 1.00
servo's 2 ea=3.95 ea
rx=16.00
crystal=2.50
rediboard 2 ea= 1.00
hot glue ,tx, control rods and misc hopefully you have.
apprx=50.00
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Old Dec 28, 2007, 07:20 PM
Crash - Rebuild - Repeat
efether's Avatar
Atlanta, GA
Joined Aug 2007
496 Posts
Thought you guys might enjoy this video. Lost a lot in the upload to youtube...but a few points:

1. Top speed via doppler: 85 MPH
2. Roll-rate: 4 rolls/sec or 1440 deg/sec
3. Crash was pilot error. Lost orientation...oops

Oh...and moving the CG forward about 1/4" helped....A LOT in calming it down.

X-41 Deltastorm (1 min 27 sec)


-Eric
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Last edited by efether; Dec 28, 2007 at 10:06 PM.
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Old Dec 29, 2007, 09:54 AM
Bob Templeton
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USA, AL, Huntsville
Joined Apr 2007
3,911 Posts
Ouch! At least you were laughing. I couldn't tell how badly damaged she was. Will she fly again?
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Old Dec 29, 2007, 10:57 AM
Respect My Authauriti!!!!
Foam Fanatic's Avatar
United States, MO, Troy
Joined Jul 2007
141 Posts
efether,

That thing is cruisin. Sorry about the crash though. It looked like it was still in one piece. I can't wait to get mine in the air. I am almost done with painting, just a few minor details I have to finish up.

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