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Old Jul 02, 2010, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by timocharis View Post
What ESC?

Dave
hobby king 25/30amp on the first motor
tower pro 30 on the second

Flew again today and both are still doing the same. Plenty of power but at about full throttle they cut out with a breaking kind of sound.

I'll try a Castle 25 tomorrow

thanks Dave for a quick responce
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Old Jul 02, 2010, 01:22 PM
Dave North
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Just from watching other folks, there seems to be sensitivity in the timing settings on the cheapo ESCs. I haven't seen that using the Castle units, so it will be interesting to hear how it goes with the P25.

I think they generally have to set the cheapies to a more advanced timing to get things to work right, but that's just from not-so-good memory.


Dave
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Old Jul 03, 2010, 02:45 AM
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New presentation for HXT750/ new motor HK.
http://www.bungymania.com/imageshome...rf1.php?id=106

Manuel V.
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Old Jul 03, 2010, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by too slo View Post
Suggestions
Try higher timing.

Manuel, interesting spy photo. Looks like at least the rotor is changed, and perhaps the photo implies they'll now include 4mm hardware as well. Hopefully thinner laminates are hiding inside too.

Kev
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Old Jul 03, 2010, 07:40 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuel v View Post
New presentation for HXT750/ new motor HK.
http://www.bungymania.com/imageshome...rf1.php?id=106

Manuel V.
That is not the same motor I think. Maybe not even from the same maker (Turborix). The specs on it don't compare well at all with the DAT-750 specs.

Here is a link to the DAT-750 R2Hobbies:

http://www.r2hobbies.com/eng/proddet...=rcps81529_750

R2Hobbies has much more and better info and specs on the DAT-750 and all the motors in the Turborix line than you can find at Hobby King:

http://www.r2hobbies.com/eng/products.php?cat=20&pg=1

R2Hobbies processes and ships quickly. At least they did for the order I placed with them, I would buy from them again.

Jack
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by too slo View Post
hobby king 25/30amp on the first motor
tower pro 30 on the second

Flew again today and both are still doing the same. Plenty of power but at about full throttle they cut out with a breaking kind of sound.

I'll try a Castle 25 tomorrow

thanks Dave for a quick responce
Had a chance to fly today.......No problems with the Castle esc.

I tried a smaller prop (from a 11/8 to a 10/8) on the other plane which has
a hobby king esc. and it helped a quite a bit. I'm thinking the new wind
increased the KV a bit and it had trouble swinging the larger prop

I'm sure you guys are more knowledgeable than me on this stuff.
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 12:26 PM
Jack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by too slo View Post
Had a chance to fly today.......No problems with the Castle esc.

I tried a smaller prop (from a 11/8 to a 10/8) on the other plane which has
a hobby king esc. and it helped a quite a bit. I'm thinking the new wind
increased the KV a bit and it had trouble swinging the larger prop

I'm sure you guys are more knowledgeable than me on this stuff.
That "breaking sound" may have been the over current protection on the ESC kicking in and pulsing the motor up and down a few hundred RPM to keep it cooler. That is the way my Castle ESCs do it. And I think both the Phoenix and Thunderbirds will do it.

Jack
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jackerbes View Post
That "breaking sound" may have been the over current protection on the ESC kicking in and pulsing the motor up and down a few hundred RPM to keep it cooler. That is the way my Castle ESCs do it. And I think both the Phoenix and Thunderbirds will do it.

Jack
thanks Jack

could you expand on the current protection pulsing or provide me with a link to more info on it.


I'd like to go over whats been going on.....

2 planes, one with a hobby king 25/30 esc. and one with tower pro 30

both started with stock 750's and both had no problem.

I rewound both (18t 22g) and both started cutting out at about full throttle.

Dave suggested using a better quality esc.(castle 25) which I did and it fixed the problem.

Now I'm trying to see if there is anything I can do to make the cheep ones
work. I tried a smaller prop on the one with the hobby king esc. and that helped quite a bit, motor only cut once in two flights.

Next I'm taking the programmer with me and adjust the timing like
Truglodite suggested.
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 11:23 PM
Dave North
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Bet Kev's right and the timing fixes it. We've seen it work before.


Dave
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Old Jul 09, 2010, 06:13 AM
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Going to make this motor my first re-wind expect I'll have a few questions for you king gents as soon as HK have more stock available. Have had a quick peruse over most the pages, and it seems to be a good project for noobie like me. Will be winding this for an Artech Spitfire, I'm currently running it with the DT750 on 4S 1300mah spinning a 9x7.5 TGS Sports, for around 240W

Seems to be holding up OK, but would like to make it a little more efficient and run a little cooler, have another project in mind too, has anyone wound one of those Scorpion 3008 kits?


Cheers,
Mike.
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Old Jul 09, 2010, 08:49 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by too slo View Post
thanks Jack

could you expand on the current protection pulsing or provide me with a link to more info on it.


I'd like to go over whats been going on.....

You can go to the Castle Creations download page and get the Castle Link software for their Castle Link USB programming device. Install that and start it, click on the "Having Trouble Starting Your Device?" tab and it will let let you run the software in the Demo mode even if you do not have the programmer. Choose a Phoenix ESC size and run the demo.

Click on the Cutoffs tab and you'll see the Current Limiting set to Normal and Hard Cutoff. The Current Limiting monitors the current being drawn and the temperature inside the ESC and acts to protect the ESC from overheating.

There options there for the sensitivity of the cutoff and for the type of cutoff and also for disabling the cutoff if you want.

A hard cutoff will stop the motor and you can reset and restart the motor by cycling the throttle closed and then open again. Using a lower throttle setting will lower the current draw and usually let you continue to fly.

A soft cutoff will cause the motor to pulse up and down a few hundred RPM a few times when the ESC reaches a certain temperature or after a brief period at excess current. You can just continue to fly and the pulsing will continue intermittently until you lower the throttle enough reduce the current draw.

Also on that Tab is the Low Voltage Cutoff setting and that is another of my favorite reasons for using CC ESCs. The LVC settings allow me to use an Auto-Lipo cutoff at voltages of 3.0V to 3.5V, choose a pack voltage from a list of number of voltages, or I can use the Custom option and set a pack voltage anywhere in the range of 4.0V to 25.2V.

Those numbers are for the Phoenix 25, they will vary from one model to another. The Current Limiting option is not included in the Thunderbird line for example. And the USB programming with the Castle Link will usually give you more choices for programming ESCs than you can get with the Field Programmer or by using the throttle programming mode.

Quote:
2 planes, one with a hobby king 25/30 esc. and one with tower pro 30 both started with stock 750's and both had no problem.

I rewound both (18t 22g) and both started cutting out at about full throttle.

Dave suggested using a better quality esc.(castle 25) which I did and it fixed the problem.

Now I'm trying to see if there is anything I can do to make the cheep ones
work. I tried a smaller prop on the one with the hobby king esc. and that helped quite a bit, motor only cut once in two flights.
You improved the performance of the motors, they performed better and drew more current, and, as always, Dave's suggestion was right on the money.

I don't think you can change anything about the HK or TP ESCs as far as the way they are reacting to what is apparently an over current or over temperature condition. If you have a Watt meter you can static test your power systems and see where that situation is occurring and maybe even find a throttle position that you can fly at that will keep it from happening.

I have planes that I fly at less than full throttle because I know that full throttle will exceed the ESC limits. I have no problem doing that, for me full throttle is not a mandatory thing and I have a good feel for what is going on from having done static testing and also from having flown most or all of my planes with a Eagle Tree eLogger to see what is happening with the power system in flight.

Using a logger is not essential, it is just something I enjoy doing. But I think a watt meter is an essential part of electric RC for any one that chooses their own power system components and flies regularly. And if you rewind motors you will almost certainly enjoy having more info and data available to you.

Quote:
Next I'm taking the programmer with me and adjust the timing like
Truglodite suggested.
That is a good idea.

I have one of the CC Field Programmers also but have not used it very much because I usually program my ESCs from the Castle Link. The Castle Link will also offer to update the firmware on the ESCs so whenever I use it I automatically find out if there is a software update available for the ESC I am programming. I always use the latest firmware on CC ESCs, I've never found a need to downgrade to an older version because a Beta firmware was troublesome. CC does not publish firmware until it is thoroughly tested apparently.

I have occasionally reloaded the firmware in a ESC when I thought maybe I was having a problem with an ESC and it seemed to have cured the problem once or twice. I'm not sure that an ESC had "gone stupid" on me or not, it may have been some other issue that went away in the process of messing around with all the power system components.

Jack
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Old Jul 19, 2010, 08:25 PM
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USA, NY, North Massapequa
Joined Nov 2007
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Would this motor work on mini Funtana X as replacement for Park 480?
I understand it will be under-powered, but will it fly?

Also what size prop would needed. I will using new ZIPPY Flightmax
2200mAh 3S1P 25C Weight: 173g and 40 AMP ESC.

The AUW of the plane is supposed
Quote:
Flying Weight: 2729 oz
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Old Jul 19, 2010, 09:06 PM
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With 16t rewind and APC 12x6e.

Manuel V.
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Old Jul 19, 2010, 10:56 PM
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How about without rewinding...
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Old Jul 20, 2010, 01:59 AM
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Mexico, BC, Mexicali
Joined Aug 2004
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I think only 38oz, 200 watts.
very marginal for this airplane.
But i never test with original wind.



My 19 turns. three layers. 9, 7, 3.
Two groups parallel.
is a kill eflite 480 performer.

Not load. 11.37V, 9400 RPV, 1.31A, 826Kv.
GWS 10x6, 11.69V, 8100 RPM, 13.90A, 75.5% effy. 162 watts.
APC e12x6, 11V, 6900 RPM, 19.25A, 76.3%, 46oz.

Manuel V.
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