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Old Dec 15, 2002, 09:10 PM
Registered User
Richmond, VA
Joined Apr 2002
993 Posts
So how do you do it?

All these Acrobatic sights are great at explaining what a trick is but I have found none that explains how to do it specifically and what may be wrong with your setup if it doesn't.

For example I'm trying to learn a harrier and I know you point the plane at 45 degrees. Assuming I have enough power for the manuver what is wrong if the plane either has too much forward speed or it drops from the 45 degrees. I think my CG needs to move back but I haven't read that anywhere.

Grant
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Old Dec 16, 2002, 07:37 AM
Old Desert Rat
Arizona Chuck's Avatar
Rimrock AZ. USA
Joined Mar 2000
1,113 Posts
I'm having the same trouble. I'm trying to hover and the plane keeps falling off on one wing. I have read I need a lot of rudder. I have a lot of rudder, 70%. Is it enough or too much, or how the hell do you tell.
I sure would like to know if it is the planes fault or I just need more practice. I don't have anyone that can try it for me, no one knows 3D flying around here.
What size plane are you flying?? I have a 9 oz plane with 5 oz/ft wing load that will go straight up but so slow I have a hard time controlling it. I have 30% control surfaces with a lot of throw and a big prop, but is it enough for this light of a plane, who knows. I not that good of a pilot myself.
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Old Dec 16, 2002, 05:07 PM
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Richmond, VA
Joined Apr 2002
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You might check your thrust line if there is sufficient power.

Grant
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Old Dec 17, 2002, 06:54 AM
Old Desert Rat
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Rimrock AZ. USA
Joined Mar 2000
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Everything is at "O". That big prop does want to stand still and the plane rotate but that is not the problem. I can control the rotation around the nose with the ailerons, it is the wing that wants to rotate. I can't keep it straight with the rudder. Would setting the motor a few degrees to the right help here??
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Old Dec 17, 2002, 05:06 PM
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Richmond, VA
Joined Apr 2002
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What is the difference between the nose rotating and the wings? I'm not sure what you're asking. I've never had problems with a wing falling off, rudder correction fixes that. I lose it when the plane falls forward and the elevator can't correct enough.

Grant
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Old Dec 17, 2002, 05:33 PM
Motors beat engines!
Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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"For example I'm trying to learn a harrier and I know you point the plane at 45 degrees. Assuming I have enough power for the manuver what is wrong if the plane either has too much forward speed or it drops from the 45 degrees."


Ok, be aware that my experience here is on a little 5.5 oz drenalyn, an elevon plane, but the key here is very precise throttle control while doing less control surface adjustment than you might expect.

I enter near myself so I can easily see whats going on, throttle way down, wait for speed to almost bleed off and do a sudden pull up, all very much like a landing flair but 5 ft. up.

As the plane almost grinds to a halt, I nail the throttle hard just till the plane starts to climb, then quickly back off, constantly adjusting throttle to maintain altitude.

I really do very little pitch control with the elevons unless I get way out of shape, the throttle does most of the control.

For doing a harrier, think of it this way:

Throttle = fine pitch control.

elevator = course pitch control.

This is a tough manuver to do with course control.


My plane does not have a 1:1 thrust /weight ratio, so I have to keep moving at least 2 mph or so, but when its very calm out, I can often have the plane bobbing around like a 1/2 filled helium balloon, dragging its antenna on the ground for several laps.

It just gets real stable when you get it right.


Dean in Milwaukee
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Old Dec 17, 2002, 10:30 PM
Old Desert Rat
Arizona Chuck's Avatar
Rimrock AZ. USA
Joined Mar 2000
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What I mean by wing rotating is where the motor is trading end with the tail. Like one wing is heavy.

Thanks for the input Dean, will try it. Might get just a touch higher the 5'.
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Old Dec 20, 2002, 05:48 PM
Caution:Makes sharp left turns
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United States, CA, Lake Forest
Joined Feb 1999
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I am trying to dial in my E3D for harriers and I just so happened to bump into a buddy who does large IMAC 3-D stuff. I complained that my plane kept rocking and falling out of the hover at high alpha. He said that I needed 45 degree elevator throw and bury the stick, I only had 30-35 degrees. Then, the altitude is controlled by throttle, the rudder for turning, and ailerons just for keeping the wings level. I will see how his advice works this weekend after I dial more throw in. I believe this was my problem in the past on another plane trying to get it to harrier.
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Old Dec 20, 2002, 10:35 PM
Motors beat engines!
Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Interesting. My Drenalyn does indeed have 45 degree throws. Did'nt realize this might be what allows me to pull it off at all.


Dean in Milwaukee
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Old Dec 22, 2002, 08:21 PM
Caution:Makes sharp left turns
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United States, CA, Lake Forest
Joined Feb 1999
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I also have to remember to take off my flap-to-elevator mixing when entering the manuever because the flaps down causes micro tip stalls and the wings "wag". I have another mix that puts a slight amount of reflex into the ailerons to counter that but it's kind of hairy because it basically kills the lift on the wing when you pull up. Gotta trust the power to pull you out and click it off after you exit. I'm starting to enjoy the 3D stuff the more I dial the plane in right. I just need to stuff more power into the airframe to get where I want to go. I need a new GB for my motor in wait.
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Old Jan 01, 2003, 01:46 AM
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Bonney Lake, WA
Joined Jan 2002
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To help control the harrier try using some spoilerons.

To control your torque roll/hover you must have as much control deflection as you can get in the rudder and elevators. Laterally balance your plane, and add a little right thrust to prevent the spiraling slipstream from yawing the nose to the left. After that it all comes down to practice. At first it will seem like you will never get it, but keep working at it and eventually you will get there.
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