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Old Nov 17, 2007, 08:11 AM
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JamiePhoto's Avatar
USA, TX, Dallas
Joined Feb 2006
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Cool
Facetmobile - Talon Topper PRV

Hi All,

This reminded me of things I have seen in the Scratch-Built Foamies forum.
In fact I have seen the term-Facetmobile. Extremely fast, too.

Enjoy,
Jamie


From the military.com website:

Glider Returns from Near Space

Aviation Week's DTI | Bill Sweetman | November 12, 2007
This article first appeared in Avaition Week's Ares Blog.
High-altitude balloons, filmy bags of helium floating at altitudes that no known airplane can sustain, have attracted increasing attention as the US Air Force has looked at "near space" -- above air traffic, with long lines of sight -- as an operating regime. One snag: balloons go whither the wind blows, payload and all.

A USAF-sponsored project to deal with that problem, Talon Topper, has been under way for several years, and a critical demonstration has just been disclosed. Contractor Near Space Corporation -- based in Oregon -- has successfully tested a Payload Return Vehicle (PRV), a radical lifting-body glider that can safely descend from very high altitudes to a controlled landing, returning an instrument package to a desired location.

Near Space Corporation http://www.nsc.aero/

Alert readers will instantly recognize the PRV for what it is -- a close relative of the Facetmobile, the all-flat-surface personal aircraft designed and test-flown by Barnaby Wainfan, who is employed in civilian life as as an ace aerodynamicist at Northrop Grumman.

Important aspects of the design include the ability to stay under control in a Mach 0.98 dive (don't try that with a conventional glider design), very light weight (useful for something carried by a balloon) and a shape that readily accommodates large payloads and antennas. It also has a very low stalling speed for easy and safe recovery. Faceting is not there for stealth but to make the aircraft easy to build.

Balloon-borne skysats -- lofted to high altitudes where winds are gentle -- provide cheap persistent platforms for communications or surveillance systems.
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Old Nov 17, 2007, 07:09 PM
Texas Buzzard
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McAllen,Texas
Joined Mar 2004
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Wainfan's Dream come true.

The "Facetmobile" is one of my top five most favorite planes. Barnaby Wainfan has a site, search Facetmobile, Lifting Bodies or just his name.

The real Facetmobile made a round trip flight from Calif. to Wisconsin via Texas. He attended and won the EAA Fly In at Oshcosh.

I built a balsa ( 1/4 x 1/4 ) stick Facetmobile a few years ago for electric.
I read about an RC Facetmobile that had a 6 foot w.s. and it flew with a gasoline weedeater engine - very stable too. Here are some crumy pics of my uncovered "Lifting Body".
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Old Nov 18, 2007, 08:31 AM
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That is very cool, Texas Buzzard. Got any pics of it covered. Does it take a lot of power to fly (efficient)?

Stay Cool,
Jamie
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Old Nov 18, 2007, 10:19 AM
Texas Buzzard
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McAllen,Texas
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Facetmobile, done in balsa.

Can't find a pic of it covered...I had one....later.

"Does it take a lot of power to fly?" Well it has a w.s. of 28" and is a bit longer than that. With the motor way out in front, the battery had to be placed about 4 inches foreard of the elvon hinge line ( too far back). I used a 3.75 ounce AXI motor spinning a 11 x 4 prop. There was a one-wheeled landing gear with skids back aft.

I'd say that for the weight it carried the power was proportional. I did build too heavy! Build light wt. and it will float. Maybe will do it in 6mm Depron sometime. But the point I was making was - It Will Fly.
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Old Nov 18, 2007, 04:10 PM
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Actually, most interesting for that design: how does it fly near and through the stall compared to its full size brother? From what I know the takeoff and landing run on the real one are longer than theoretically possible because of the short length of the landing gear limiting the AOA.
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Old Nov 19, 2007, 10:45 AM
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Florida
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I have built four different sized models of Barny's Facetmobile. The first a 1/4 scale powered by a .90 4 stroke, two 1/5 scale powered by .40 2 stroke and one 1/6 scale (not flown yet) and the last, an electic powered 1/8 scale. All of them have flown exceptionally well, even inverted flight. They will not spin however but can do most all other manuvers. They have an exceptionally wide speed range and even the big one lands at a crawl. Construction has been all stick and film covering. The many compound angles make it interesting.
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Old Nov 20, 2007, 10:28 AM
Texas Buzzard
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Stall?

Brandano asked,"Actually, most interesting for that design: how does it fly near and through the stall compared to its full size brother? "

How does it stall? If thats the question then I'd say, " This bird will start to hunt or oscillate up and down like a canard does when you dial in some up and slowly reduce the power. It "fights" a stall cuz it drops the nose a bit when near a stall. That's good for landing. I don't know if the full-scale plane does that. Seems like it would. How about some input from the pilot who has flown larger Facetmobiles. Here is a pic covered, but it is not my model.
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Old Nov 20, 2007, 06:14 PM
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from what I have read here and there the full size one will not actually stall, it will "mush" in a nose up attitude, not having enough elevator to increase the AOA furter. I suppose the oscillation seen in th smaller scale versions is probably due to the lower mass, and the lower inertia that comes with it.
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Old Nov 21, 2007, 07:24 AM
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USA, TX, Dallas
Joined Feb 2006
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Let's give credit....

Very interesting. Credit for creating a kit goes to Electric Aero Modeling USA in Lewisville, TX, a suburb of Dallas.

I knew I remembered seeing this somewhere before:

http://www.eam.net/EAMRC/skunkworks/...acetmobile.htm

-quote-

Specifications
Thingspan 20"
Length 25-1/8"
Thing Area 383-1/2 sq. in.
Thing Loading 2.25 oz sq. ft.
*Weight 6 oz.
3 Channel with elevons

A new aerobatic indoor / outdoor slow flier and it's a scale model to boot !
Designed to use the inexpensive GWS geardrives if you have a Lite Stik you have all the equipment you need.
Outstanding flying ability aerobatic, climbs at an amazing angle without stalling, will turn in very tight spaces and with a wing loading of only 2.25 ounces per square foot slow flight is wonderful.
Easy to build with photo illustrated instructions.

$29.95

-end quote-

At that wing loading, I bet it does float. Good stuff.

Jamie
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Last edited by JamiePhoto; Nov 21, 2007 at 07:25 AM. Reason: Emphasis
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Old Nov 21, 2007, 11:04 AM
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Thes are pictures of the electric Facetmobile mentioned above.
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Old Nov 21, 2007, 02:17 PM
Lift is cheap - Drag sucks
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Unflown Facet

Gotta get around to flying this thing - one of these days soon.

Tom
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Old Nov 28, 2007, 10:24 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
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After I made an early new year resolution to give up kits, you lot have to go remind there's one of the Facetmobile around.

I vaguely recall even starting to draw plans for a Facetmobile - it's not that difficult once you establish where the straight edges go, meet up at, and a good order to put them in place. As a shape with no curves, no ribs and few needed cut-out parts, it ought to be a cinch to make. Heck, you don't even have to prop anything up to a dihedral angle...

Better still, its 'engine cowling' is about custom made for an outrunner!

It's almost hilarious that Barney's original has been around for years now after being built for relative peanuts by aviation standards, and suddenly the concept has a TLA (Three Letter Acronym) and a huge research budget...

Love the Lazy Bee logo drawing. I'm building my fourth, or maybe my fifth if you count that my glow powered LB spent three or four months flying on three DD S400 motors... 40" span, original structure from a 1993 drawing, but with an Astro 020 geared brushless

Regards

Dereck
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Old Nov 30, 2007, 09:56 AM
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North London ENGLAND
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamiePhoto
Hi All,

This reminded me of things I have seen in the Scratch-Built Foamies forum.
In fact I have seen the term-Facetmobile. Extremely fast, too.

Enjoy,
Jamie


From the military.com website:

Glider Returns from Near Space

Aviation Week's DTI | Bill Sweetman | November 12, 2007
This article first appeared in Avaition Week's Ares Blog.
High-altitude balloons, filmy bags of helium floating at altitudes that no known airplane can sustain, have attracted increasing attention as the US Air Force has looked at "near space" -- above air traffic, with long lines of sight -- as an operating regime. One snag: balloons go whither the wind blows, payload and all.

A USAF-sponsored project to deal with that problem, Talon Topper, has been under way for several years, and a critical demonstration has just been disclosed. Contractor Near Space Corporation -- based in Oregon -- has successfully tested a Payload Return Vehicle (PRV), a radical lifting-body glider that can safely descend from very high altitudes to a controlled landing, returning an instrument package to a desired location.

Near Space Corporation http://www.nsc.aero/

Alert readers will instantly recognize the PRV for what it is -- a close relative of the Facetmobile, the all-flat-surface personal aircraft designed and test-flown by Barnaby Wainfan, who is employed in civilian life as as an ace aerodynamicist at Northrop Grumman.

Important aspects of the design include the ability to stay under control in a Mach 0.98 dive (don't try that with a conventional glider design), very light weight (useful for something carried by a balloon) and a shape that readily accommodates large payloads and antennas. It also has a very low stalling speed for easy and safe recovery. Faceting is not there for stealth but to make the aircraft easy to build.

Balloon-borne skysats -- lofted to high altitudes where winds are gentle -- provide cheap persistent platforms for communications or surveillance systems.
Interesting they have smallerised the tip fins and added a central fin ; I did some small models and came to the same conclusions, the large original tip fins are not too good structurally.Also the underside flap is positioned so that there will be a lift increase as well as air-brake effect, slows it even more for landing.That flap is where the original had the pilot access hatch. I have seen flight pics with wool-tufts at the angles top-side, there appears to be no flow break-away at those points.Great for bulky payloads! Great for Depron building also!
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Old Dec 07, 2007, 11:03 AM
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Lewisville, Texas, United States
Joined Mar 2000
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Foto Credit

Geeeeez Texas Buzzard use the foto but fail to mention where you lifted it from? please give credit or don't use the foto.
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Old Dec 07, 2007, 12:15 PM
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Florida
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Here is the quarter scale Facetmobile, flys great.
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