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Old Mar 07, 2008, 07:11 AM
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United States, HI, Kapolei
Joined Jan 2007
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anyone tried the flip flop manuever yet? don't know what's it called but i'll describe it as much as i can....
parachute down then push elevator stick up then the plane parachutes upsidedown.
had fun doing this with a couple of WOT to see if i can fold the wings while flying inverted....lol.
Maybz i can't thank you enough for your great design and contribution to this hobby.
i love this plane. though i think i maybe getting good at flying coz i can't seem to dork anymore planes and my hangar is getting full...well the shed looks like a bat cave with all the planes hanging...
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Old Mar 08, 2008, 08:31 PM
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Hey Paul, Thanks! Haven't flown it yet with the programming you suggested, but it looks like it works.
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Old Mar 08, 2008, 09:01 PM
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
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I got a chance to put another 3 sets of lipos in my F-14 this PM.

It was just fun to fly.

I gotta say the mixing is Kewel but I like to do the wings swing when I fell like it
as opposed to automatically.

This bird is just a pleasure to fly on a nice calm afternoon.
It's just a great handling, predictable flier that can go fast too.
Slow fly bys , F A S T flybys, super rolls and looping.

The Hawks and Eagles BUG OUT when I'm doing my thing !
Cant wait for the Buzzards to show up this summer :-)))

I got to thinking that it would be NICE to do Touch and Goes with this kind of plane.
but then the extra weight would ruin things a bit.

I may take a look at SCALING THIS bird UP to 2X so I can use A123 batteries in it.

Back to Lipo charging the rest of the evening

C U l8r
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Old Mar 09, 2008, 07:04 PM
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If anyone is CRAZY enough to wants to do a 57.875" span version of this bird
I worked up the N I N E Sheets of depron that it will take !

Randy asked me about this, so I took a bunch more time and reworked the
file for 9mm internal parts.
That is the parts on the same plane/layer as the WING.
So the Main wing, Wing LE, Pivot Holes, rear saddle and two front spaces
are now depicted in RED indicating thay are to be 9mm thick.

All the reorganizing left ONE part orphaned.
That being the rear bottom fuse cover.
I placed it's outline in with the 9mm parts but it only needs to be 6mm.

Whoever builds this FIRST has to come up with an LG on their own.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:16 AM
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Canada's East Coast, "An Ocean Playground"
Joined Apr 2002
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Wow Bob, quite a handfull for a hand-launch..!

What's the length of that thing?

An inbetween size would be nice..say around 45" span

Bill
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 09:20 AM
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Ridgecrest California
Joined Jun 2006
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Hmm sounds like an idea for 9mm EPP
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:11 PM
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Well I was thinking that a light landing gear would be nice on this big one !
As I flew past myself several times with the wings extended it occured
to be that Touch and Goes would be so nice with this bird :-)

The 9mm is a good idea and I actually was thinknig that the parts
on the wing Plane would be ideal candidates for the 9mm
and leave everything else 6mm to reduce weight !

I also figured it might be a good idea to use a plastic bolt, nut and washers
at the pivots and on this size I'duse a CF tube for spar and beef the saddle.

I'm getting some A123 batteries and need to UPSize
some favorite planes for their use.


RE changing Size :

To change size is not simply a SCALING .
Every slot, notch and tab has to be manually resized for
the material thickness being used.

Then everything has to be re oriented on the Depron sheets
to realize the best use of materials.

This was not quite 2X since I couldnt get everything to fit on 9 sheets.


Original F-14 Span .....original length
------------------ = ----------------
57.875".....................new length
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:17 PM
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Canada's East Coast, "An Ocean Playground"
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You got the right idea Bob, and I know it's not a simple thing to increase the size, especially when you can't increase the Depron sheet size accordingly..!

One of the 4S A123's will weigh 11 ozs, so you'll need a strong battery compartment...

Bill
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 04:44 PM
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I have a DW9360 coming yet today, according to the tracking #

This will be my 1st foray into the larger A123's
I don't particularly care for the little B&D VPX cells !

Looks as tho you are into A123 big time !
How are you charging 4 cell packs ?

I haven't been able to FIND the length or span in the original F-14
and Mine is in the truck and it's raining.

I'm starting to wonder if this is a good idea or not !
Weight estimates are in the 3# area, hmmmmmm

I like to do T&G's and most foamies don't have an LG !
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 08:02 PM
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Canada's East Coast, "An Ocean Playground"
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Bob, I use a LipoDapter connected to a Wattage PF-12 NICAD charger....works like a charm..!
info here... http://www.slkelectronics.com/lipodapter/index.htm

You may be tempted to put a pack of A123's on a regular lipo charger...and it will charge...BUT..AND IT'S A BIG BUT....if you are not standing directly over the charger and monitoring the voltage, instead of shutting off at 3.6 volts per cells as with the LipoDapter....when it gets to about 3.75 volts per cell a RUNAWAY condition happens, and in just seconds the pack voltage goes higher and higher....to where it maybe would explode...! I have seen the runaway condition just as it begins and it's frightening, because it happens so fast!

So this little $42. Lipodapter is a great tool, especially since most of us have old NICAD chargers that are idle....oh, by the way, you can also charge regular lipo packs from the Nicad charger using the LipoDapter...that was it's initial purpose..!

Bill
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 09:00 PM
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
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Dapters are OK and I have used them myself but A123s will not go thermal if charged to 4.2 volts per cell. The only result will be reduced number of cycles but even that is marginal.

I have charged a 4S to 18.25volts (4.5625 per cell) and it is still in service providing over 2100 mAh capacity 163 flights later.


Charles
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 10:52 PM
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Canada's East Coast, "An Ocean Playground"
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Yup, one of my 4S packs showed 18 volts one night...about 45 seconds AFTER it showed 14.2 ...after I grabbed it off the charger it settled back immediately to 16 volts and does not seem any worse for wear...but I didn't know where it was headed..!

They definitely are tough critters.....

Bill
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 11:22 PM
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
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Thanks VTT - I was just asking how you do it for yet another flavor of this
mysterious batterys never ending and creative charge methods.

I've been monitoring the ZIP charger thread , and,
Dan Baldwin's A123 CUTOFF device thread.

VTT your A123's wont go any higher than your Charger can go.

BTW I received my DW9360 pak today.
Those little screws are Buggers ! ! ! !
There wass a tiny Center pin that prevented "MY" tools for going in the hole.
That was until I busted em off with a small common screwdriver.
Then, Disassembly was easy.
I guess DW doesnt want anybody to take these paks apart !


I've built one the Dans boards and have enough parts for another.
It worked OK on my B&D VPX A123's
Now to test it on the Big A123's

PS I just added a PDF of the BIG version above !
Be sure read about the differences.
And realize this has never been built !
Its a SCALE UP but you are on your own if you go ahead with it !
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Old Mar 11, 2008, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdofplay
If anyone is CRAZY enough to wants to do a 57.875" span version of this bird
I worked up the N I N E Sheets of depron that it will take !

Randy asked me about this, so I took a bunch more time and reworked the
file for 9mm internal parts.
That is the parts on the same plane/layer as the WING.
So the Main wing, Wing LE, Pivot Holes, rear saddle and two front spaces
are now depicted in RED indicating thay are to be 9mm thick.

All the reorganizing left ONE part orphaned.
That being the rear bottom fuse cover.
I placed it's outline in with the 9mm parts but it only needs to be 6mm.

Whoever builds this FIRST has to come up with an LG on their own.
Bob, thanks for the scaled-up version.

Noting that attempts to tile the above PDF might result in a huge number of tiles (over 120 LETTER tiles) without cropping first, I used ScaleAndTile3, _v3k, to crop your PDF down to the dimensions of the 3x3 array of 39x13 sheets, then tiled the cropped PDF into a nine-page PDF containing the 39x13 sheets as individual pages. By skipping the duplicate pages, users of ScaleAndTile3 can easily tile the six discrete 39x13 pages into five LEGAL tiles for each 39x13 sheet, for a total of 30 tiles.

IIRC, my HP 1120CSE printer can feed up to 1/8" thick by 13" wide media. If I had the sheets of depron handy, I'd be tempted to unpack the printer (still new in the box) to see if printing directly to the depron would work satisfactorily.

See below for the tiled PDF (nine 39x13 tiles). Note that tiles 2, 5, and 6 appear to be redundant for the purposes of making patterns.

Question for Bob: Can you cut all nine sheets with one setup of your ShopBot, as laid out in your original JPEG/PDF? If not, I'm wondering if you could simply do (1, 3, and 4) x 2 plus (7, 8, and 9) x 1 for each set of parts, thus fitting all six sheets within a 39"x 78" area on your ShopBot table?

Best regards,
Bill Segraves

P.S. Have you considered making a pedal-plane kit for the kiddies?
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Old Mar 11, 2008, 11:49 AM
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Bill, thanks for your work on this plan.

I designed it to be cut in a stacked method.
I can cut 2-3 sheets at a time with a long LOC "length of cut" bit.

Mike was keen on this idea also and came up with his very efficient layout
for the original MDC F-14.

It's also nice to have duplicate parts be symmetrically laid out because plastic
sheets seem to have a "gain" or look/feel/shine that is different on each side.

Stacked cutting makes my low volume parts pricing relatively reasonable.
Without it I'd be working for "peanuts" and interest would be lost real quik !


My CNC table is 96" x 48" (4'x8')BUT my vacuum hold down jig is only good
for single sized sheets of depron.

3 x 13 = 39 ok but 3 x 39 = 117 ... OOOPS ... to big !!!

Does that help ? :-)

NO KIDDY TOYS ! Thats why old retired guys have Band Saws !
Can I cut wood ? Yep ! :-) http://www.balsabuddies.com/dinos//index.htm
Sorry no hi rez pix as my web site was getting full.

I have ,in the past and for myself , glued depron sheets on edge to form
larger sheets and then cut them.
However, RCFOAM has a history of providing depron in a kinda rough edged
format. I believe they take larger sheets and simply WHACK em to size with
a band saw, which does not leave the cleanest edge.
Edge glued sheets require a bit of "prep" before gluing ! Sanding or cutting !
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