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Old Nov 07, 2007, 12:15 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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Mini-Review
The Black Horse BIG Liberty 182 Semi-Scale "Cessna"

About a year and a half ago I was asked to recommend a High Wing Trainer Electric. My first response was the "New" 56.7" Liberty EP from Hobby Lobby. My suggestion was taken, and in short order it was up and flying. I had the privilege of actually making the maiden flight , and I was totally impressed with the plane. There was a bit of wind that day, and the 56.7" trainer did not seem to mind it a bit.

Well, a few weeks ago I got to fly the same Liberty EP again. And again it was windy .... straight down the runway. Well it was just a blast floating that little electric in and doing touch-n-goes. This got me thinking. There is also a larger version. Hmm .... well you know how it goes, a little pit talk and before you know it I am hooked. I had to have one. And from all my searching here at RCG, it seems no one has ever reviewed one, nor is there much talk of this big trainer at all.

Looking for the BIG Liberty 182 - 71.9" Trainer

Well to my surprise, Hobby Lobby had stopped selling the 56.7" Liberty EP . Not really sure why (seems like a bad business move) as to me this was a super great trainer and a good first electric. I was also having a hard time finding the larger 71.9" wing span Liberty 182. No one seemed to have one on this side of the Atlantic.

Enter American Pioneer Hobbies Inc. Not only did they carry the smaller Liberty EP, but they also stocked the BIG Liberty 182. I was ready to order that evening when I discovered they only did email and phone orders, no web store. I called them up on Monday and quickly got my order placed. The order process was a little unconventional, but they were quick to ship and quick to answer my emails. The model arrived today in good condition 8 days from the order and all is well. It came packaged good - as good as any in a double box. Now I begin the process of assembly. I hope to have it ready by next Tuesday, but not sure as I have a busy weekend ahead and I have been sick this week and getting over a cold.


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Old Nov 07, 2007, 12:32 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
A Look Inside

A quick look around the box finds everything looking very good. A very complete set of hardware and A Very Nicely Covered model. The covering is actually some of the best I have ever seen.

There is also a load of build up in the fuse. It is very stout, but not heavy at all. Looks like this plane could take a beating from a beginner and keep on going. While I am no beginner, I got this plane because of the smaller Liberty's ability to handle wind, float and do Touch-n-goes. I am looking for a relaxed sport plane to just float around in between those other "hair-raising" models that I have.
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 12:33 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
Is it like the Smaller Liberty EP

In build and design, Yes! In flight, I have no idea yet, But If the Big 182 has the characteristics of the smaller EP, I think it will be great. And I think with the larger wing span, extra wing area and slightly more weight, this will make it all the more trainer like. It should be more wind stable and very nice to fly. While I really don't "Need" a trainer, I like it and wanted one for my hanger for several reasons:

1. WOW Factor - I like to electrify large models on a budget. I could get this plane in the air with a cheap $25 motor and $40 ESC on 2 3s 2100 lipo batteries. Then all the guys at the field say "WOW, that is a big Electric" - So WOW! factor is nice.

2. It will be a relaxing break from 3D and Acro / Pattern flight

3. I do not have a plane with a nose wheel. 14 tail draggers and a few hand launch jobs .... but no nose wheel

4. I love to do Touch and Goes and this plane looks beautiful doing them. (at least the EP does)

5. I like "gliding" but do not like Gliders. I have a 2 meter sail plane, but do not like it much. I like being able to shut down the power. float around, land on my target, and take off again. Gliders are "once and done" things.

If you are looking for a Large Trainer, I think this one should be at the top of your list

Mike
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 12:43 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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A Couple of Low Notes

Unlike reviews where the reviewer is trying to make the seller / manufacturer look good .... I have no such strings attached here.

To my discontent, the plane did have a few blemishes. First there was the decal sheet. I love decals. This is probably one of the reasons I do not like building kits as much as ARFs - No Decals. The decals add just that little extra scale and detail that make the model look finished. The Liberty 182's decals arrived stuck to the box. One wing panel and a tail section are ruined.

There is also some bleed thru from the balsa, or glue, or something in the tail feathers. The white covering is tainted at the ribbing on both sides of both stabs. It is almost the color of dried blood. but I am guessing is was too much glue or bleed from the wood. At any rate, it is not very appealing for a new model. Takes away from the new shinny look.

I will contact American Pioneer and see what they will say about these. I am sure nothing can be done about the bleeding short of sending it back (and I will not pay to do that). But I would hope they can replace the decal sheet.

Mike
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 01:22 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
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North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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Let's Look at the Power Plant

OK, Before the 182 arrived, I started considering what kind of power I would need to fly it. I like my models over powered, but that was going to prove difficult for the motors and batteries I had on hand. I am trying to avoid going to 4s packs and what I have on had is an 800kv motor.

I am going to try the Budget HXT 3548 C 800kv version from United Hobbies. It is the same size as the recommended AXI 2826. After my initial testing, I think the 800 kv is a little over stated in the HXT motor. I have a Himax 800kv motor of the same size and on the same prop it does much better. None the less, I will try with the 800kv HXT.

Without knowing how much clearance I would have, I tried various pitch 11 and 12 size props. My desired power goal is 75 watts per pound minimum on 2 3s 2100 packs. I think I will be able to get the weight to come in under the speced 4.7 lbs as I will use HS-81 size instead of standard servos. The model calls for 5 servos, I may try to do it with 4 powering the nose wheel off the same servos as the rudder.

I have already spoken with Dimensions Engineering and they assure me that the ParkBEC will be fine for his project as an external BEC. So got one of them already. And I will pair this with a Dynam 40 amp ESC.

Here is what I am getting so far:
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 01:26 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
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North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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Now that the model has arrived. I have popped on the Landing Gear and realize I can actually swing a 13 size prop. The specs call for a 10 size, but that seems small. I can actaully swing a 13" prop and still have 1.5" of ground clearance. I will run up the 13x7 tonight and see what kind of power it will give me.

If nothing works well, I will simple order the 900 kv version of this HXT motor. I have one in a different plane and using an 11" or 12" prop I should be able to pull about 34-36 amps and about 400 watts. This would be plenty of power for this Large Model.

Mike
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 01:36 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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OK, looking thru the manual I discover that the nose wheel and rudder are controlled by one servo. The 5th servo is for the remote control of the "Candy Drop" door in the bottom of the plane .... a feature I will not be using and thus a savings of about 2 oz
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 01:54 PM
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Ocala,Florida
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Thanks for the heads up Mike,will watch this one
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 02:03 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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Or coarse you know Kyle, there will be video
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 02:05 PM
AMA #851612
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Alameda, CA
Joined Dec 2005
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Subscribed! Man, I've been thinking I want a new trainer plane for newbies....I REALLY like the Liberty, so I'm bummed the Hobby Lobby is no longer carrying them. I will most likely just patch up my Super Star and mod it into a trike gear setup.
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 02:09 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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Dano, you can still get either this one or the Small one from American Pioneer Hobbies Inc. And I must say, that Liberty EP small version as a trainer flys head and shoulders better than the Hobbico Super Star EP. And you know I love my Super Star so that is saying a lot.

The 57.6" wing Libetery EP comes in at under 3 lbs. Larger and lighter than the SSEP. If you add a nose wheel to the SSEP it will be much heavier than the Liberty I would think.

As I said, I have flown them both and the Liberty is much nicer.
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 02:25 PM
Warbird crazy!
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United States, CA, San Mateo
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Very cool Mike!

After many flights on the club's 63" span Electristar, flying a large model with trike gear is so much fun. I'm sure you will get so addicted to shooting touch and goes and slip landings.

John and Christo
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm1

As I said, I have flown them both and the Liberty is much nicer.
Hmmm. Well I would tend to agree unless the EP is heavily modified for brushless/LIPO performance. I have the smaller Liberty and a heavily modified EP. I'll take the Liberty up to 10mph winds. Over 10mph, and the EP flies remarkably well. Its one of my favorite windy day planes.

There is a lot to be said for the Liberty needing no mods. If the larger version is more stable in the wind it would get my attention. I guess it competes in size with the Electristar and now the EP version of the Nexstar. The Liberty, being so light compared to the others, would require a much less expensive power system and batteries. But then again, being so much lighter would not be as stable as the other two in a lot of wind.
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 09:05 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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I am looking for that tradeoff between boat anchor and feather. My only concern is that given the wing span and wing area, it still may be light and get tossed around pretty good. Just by shear size.
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Old Nov 07, 2007, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm1
I am looking for that tradeoff between boat anchor and feather. My only concern is that given the wing span and wing area, it still may be light and get tossed around pretty good. Just by shear size.
BINGO!

Assuming you are going to fly this model in windy conditions then, I would higly recommend at least 20oz./Sq.-Ft. wing loading.

Take a look at:

http://www.rc-electric-aircraft-info..._airplane.html
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