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Old Dec 11, 2002, 05:02 PM
Hairy E-Pilot
All__talk's Avatar
Ellensburg, Wa, USA
Joined Dec 2000
551 Posts
Best brushed motor for Eco on 10 cells?

Hi Guys

Iím still searching for the best 10 cell brushed motor for my Eco (I know brushless, brushless, brushless, but Iím poor, poor, poor ), I started with a Orion Rush 19T, it wasnít handling the current well and finely over heated and grounded a winding around the 15th flight. Next, I wanted to try one of the Kyosho Mad Science motors, knowing they handle higher currents (I run an Endo on 10 cell in a 4 1/2lb plane), trouble is they donít make one with enough turns to match Ecoís 18:1 gearing. So I built a secondary gearbox to go between the motor and the stock gearing, with total gearing of 22.5:1 and a 16T Endo the testing looked good but the steel to steel gears were wearing rapidly and seemed to be causing a great deal of RF noise, I may pursue this option with a nylon spur gear in the secondary box. Currently Iím running a Trinity Speed Gems 17T, which is to hot for the stock gearing, but since Iím still in the hover training stage its working fairly well and handling the current better than the Orion motor did. O.K., now that you have the background, Hereís what I found:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXW904&P=7

Kyosho Aquaspeed Marine Stock
$27.99 at Tower
Voltage: 8.4V
Current: 3.2A
RPM w/Load: 26,000
RPM w/o Load: 30,500
Turns: 18

It has the 5x5 brushes and hopefully the large diameter com, normally an 18T car motor would be a little hot for the Ecoís stock gearing but since this ones wound for 7 cells it might be just right. Has anyone tried this motor or have a Kv spec for it? What do ya think?

Gary
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Last edited by All__talk; Dec 11, 2002 at 05:04 PM.
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Old Dec 11, 2002, 05:37 PM
Registered User
Atlanta
Joined Nov 2002
63 Posts
Gee, this is a tough one. Keep buying and servicing brushed motors or buy one brushless and just have longer flights with much less maintenance. Iím sorry I canít recommend a brushed motor but I just had to be the first to say brushless, brushless, brushless.

Really, Iím poor too but have you considered all the money and time youíre putting into trying to get by with brushed motors when you would be better off finding a way to get the brushless? Yes, it hurts a little at first but youíll be happier in the long run. That Kyosho motor would put you $28 (plus shipping) farther away from getting the motor you really need.

Donít get your feathers ruffled. Just my two cents.

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Old Dec 11, 2002, 06:46 PM
Registered User
Bellmore, New York,USA
Joined Jul 2001
112 Posts
Hi Gary,
Don't let people spook you, brushless is great but not necessary to learn and have fun. I flew my Eco with a brushed motor for a year while I was learning. I flew the Kyosho Magnetic Mayhem on 8 cells with an 11t pinion. I would get about 200 flights on a motor and unless you have a lot of packs that might represent an entire season of flight. I'm not sure what the lifespan of the motor on 10 cells would be though.

With any brushed motor you do have to pay attention to some details. Blow out the brush dust after flying, and get a commutator brush or stone to keep it in good shape. Consider replacing the bronze bushings with ball bearings to improve the life expectancy. Choose the pinion wisely so you don't overwork the motor. If you get around 1250rpm the Eco will fly nicely, it won't be hot but if you are learning it will be fine. You might also consider a heatsink for the motor and use some washers between the motor and the frame to uncover the vent holes on the bottom of the can. The motors are cheap and available from Tower as well as the bearings. I never had much success with the Trinity motors and car motors in general. They don't seem develop the same torque as the heli motors with the longer armatures. When you can aford one of course go brushless. Just my opinion but I hope this helps.

Mike
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Old Dec 11, 2002, 06:53 PM
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andypocock's Avatar
Henley on Thames, England
Joined Mar 2002
106 Posts
Have a look at

http://www.micro-heli.co.uk/

Malcolm has been experimenting with brushed motors and 10 cells. It might give you some ideas.
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Old Dec 11, 2002, 07:39 PM
Registered User
United States, FL, West Palm Beach
Joined Jun 2001
2,214 Posts
Hello

I too learned to fly with a brushed motor setup(Jeti 300 heli controller and a Ikaus Preformance motor). I took really good care of it and it lasted 100 flights on 9 cells and then I decided to take it out and put a brushless in. Even through I took the motor out it still had life left in it. Secret to my motors long life is, keep the voltage under 12 volts, clean the brushes, blow out the motor, and a cooling fan. I don't know if all of this is necessary but my motor lasted a long trim.......

If you are looking for a good inexpensive brushless setup then the Mega 22/20/3 with a resonable controller(new Hacker Master controllers of the Castle Creations Phoinex 35) is the way to go. You can purchase the combo for less than 200 bucks and also have a controller with all the popular features such as a governor. This combo will be more than enough to take you all the way(basic flight to 3D).


Carlo
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Old Dec 11, 2002, 09:00 PM
Hairy E-Pilot
All__talk's Avatar
Ellensburg, Wa, USA
Joined Dec 2000
551 Posts
Thanks for the info guys, very much appreciated. And donít worry, Iím meticulous about motor maintenance, I clean the com and brushes and blow out the dust between each flight, it gives me something to do while the motor cools.

Now before anybody else feels the need to try and sell me on brushless, thereís no need to, I know itís the way to go, but its gonna be a long time before I will have the money to do it. Hell, it took me 6 months to come up with the money to get the gyro and two servos I needed to get it air born, truth is I really canít afford this hobby, but if I stuck with what I could afford all Iíd get to do is watch TV. What Iím trying to find is an acceptable motor that can keep me air flyin while I train and save for the brushless. The complication here is the 10 cell packs, as it seems that there are some know solutions for 8 cells. I have 2, 10 cell SC2400 packs that have to share time between my big plane and the Eco8, the plane might fly just fine on 8 so maybe if nothing else works Iíll pull 2 cells from each pack.

Future brushless owner
Gary
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Old Dec 12, 2002, 10:20 AM
Registered User
San Diego Lindberg, California, United States
Joined Jan 2002
1,288 Posts
Odd idea

I can't remember the exact url, but I found it via Tohru Shimizu's page. He had link to anothe Japanese home page where a fellow had mounted two 540 sized car motors on to a 30 size heli and it might have been the same page where another twin motor was placed on E Voyager. If you can't get enough reliable power from one motor, you can try two, but there is the weight penalty. One big advantage is that each motor only has to dissipate half the heat, and you have twice the surface area for cooling and also the current the comm and brushes handle is less. The guy made a small Al bracket to mount the second motor off to the side. It wasn't even symmetrical but it did work !
EP
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Old Dec 12, 2002, 07:33 PM
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In Heli Wonderland
Joined Aug 1999
22,796 Posts
The Magnetic Mayhem will fit your needs fine. Put a heatsink on it and add bearings is all it needs.
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Old Dec 12, 2002, 07:56 PM
Renewed interest
ozace's Avatar
Melbourne , Australia
Joined Jun 2002
8,950 Posts
i am running a mag mayhem rev
on 8 cell and 11 pinion
it gets hot, i would be concerned on 10 cells

adam
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Old Dec 12, 2002, 08:24 PM
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San Diego Lindberg, California, United States
Joined Jan 2002
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twin 540's in a 30 size heli

http://member.nifty.ne.jp/sirara/30epconcept.htm
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Old Dec 12, 2002, 09:22 PM
Hairy E-Pilot
All__talk's Avatar
Ellensburg, Wa, USA
Joined Dec 2000
551 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Bronk
The Magnetic Mayhem will fit your needs fine. Put a heatsink on it and add bearings is all it needs.
Fred, are you saying run the MM on 10 cells?

Gary
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