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Old Nov 01, 2007, 12:02 PM
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Build Log
***Skyote Biplane*** Plans by Tony65x55 (msg#28), Pics(msgs#45, 58, 65, 146)

*** News Flash! Foamenator has his Skyote, NX8XX color scheme, almost ready for maiden, 26 July 2008. Start at about message #127 for his narrative and pictures. Thanks, Bob!***

*** News Flash! Praymond maidened his Skyote today, 14Jun 2008. See message #71 for his report. ***

The Skyote, an exquisite little biplane designed over thirty years ago by O.E. Pete Bartoe, is the subject of this design-build-fly thread.

I mentioned this as a possible project back in the Simple N-28 thread. At the time, GPW, et al, had too much on their plates to take on the project. Perhaps now that days are shorter, some of the Simple N-28 build participants will be able to contribute.

For those interested in digging deeper, The Skyote Type Club has a web site at www.skyote.org. In addition, there is a Yahoo Group, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SkyoteTypeClub, that has more information on the Skyote.

Now, here's a tidbit for those who may read the available literature on the Skyote. The original name of the design was "Tiger Cub" (I saw the ghost (remains from erasure) of the original name on my copy of the plans), later changed to Skyote. I asked Pete Bartoe about this when I noticed it, and he explained his reasons for the change (later). I still think the original name is most appropriate.

Tiger Cub - you read it here first. AFAIK, this name has never appeared in published print media, and has probably been seen only by holders of copies of the plans (revealed simultaneously on Yahoo Groups).

More later. ...

Cheers,
Bill Segraves
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Last edited by segraves; Jul 26, 2008 at 07:42 AM. Reason: Foamenator's NX8XX almost ready for maiden.
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Old Nov 01, 2007, 12:54 PM
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Very Tiger Moth-ish looking
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Old Nov 01, 2007, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praymond
Very Tiger Moth-ish looking
I hope readers will visit the Skyote Type Club site, www.skyote.org, especially Bud Davisson's article. In the article, you'll discover all of the endearing qualities of the design that have been so skillfully incorporated from the best qualities of many classic aerobatic aircraft.

The prototype, NX8XX, was the first Skyote completed. It was built by Brad Davenport, owned next by Dave Fisher, who put it up for sale in 19?? It almost fell into my hands (I couldn't sell my other plane fast enough to make the deal), and was ultimately purchased by Robert "Hawkeye" Hughes, in whose loving care it has remained to this day. It's no surprise to me at all that Hawkeye has kept it all these years. If I had been the lucky purchaser, I'm certain I'd still have it.

Try to find what Bob Hoover said about the Skyote, after having flown it in an airshow. There's also a flight test report by Bob Hoover at www.skyote.org.

Best regards,
Bill Segraves
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Last edited by segraves; Jul 26, 2008 at 07:33 AM. Reason: Corrected error in N number
Old Nov 01, 2007, 03:46 PM
gpw
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Nice looking plane ...got plans ??? hahahahaha
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Old Nov 01, 2007, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
Nice looking plane ...got plans ??? hahahahaha
Funny you should ask. I have a set of 20" WS plans, scaled and tiled from the hi-res 3-view that was shown as a page of the brochure at www.skyote.org. As of right now, the only 3-view there is the one in the Kitplanes article excerpts. That 3-view is so small it is suitable, IMO, only for producing patterns. As scaled plans, it has too little resolution.

Glen, you (and other users) now know how to produce a set of plans/patterns for yourself with ScaleAndTile. IMO, this would be within "fair use" guidelines.

I still need to make a call to Pete Bartoe to see if it's O.K. for me to "publish", i.e., post scaled sets of plans from his 3-views. Thanks for the reminder.

In the mean time, Pete does sell an information package that includes a brochure with a hi-res 3-view. Even if Pete doesn't permit his 3-view to be posted online, it seems to me any purchaser of the info package ($5.00) would be able to use the 3-view to make his own model.

[Edit 05Nov2007: The hi-res 3-view is buried deep in the Skyote Type Club site (see the photo gallery, Mike K's folder). Pete Bartoe gave me permission on 04Nov2007 to post the 3-views on this site. See subsequent posts for more details.]

Best regards,
Bill Segraves
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Last edited by segraves; Nov 05, 2007 at 09:58 PM.
Old Nov 01, 2007, 09:38 PM
gpw
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Seg, take your time , the build list is pretty long and it'll take one nasty winter to make all these planes desired...But felt it my duty to ask for plans ...Somebody had to ask ... Great one to S&T it up to 30",eh???
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Old Nov 01, 2007, 10:27 PM
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Skyote 3-View

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
Seg, take your time , the build list is pretty long and it'll take one nasty winter to make all these planes desired...But felt it my duty to ask for plans ...Somebody had to ask ... Great one to S&T it up to 30",eh???
Yes, 1-1/2 inch to 1 foot scale might be nice.

I'll go back to my original copy of the 3-view and revise the scale factor for 30" WS, posting same in this thread.

[Edit] Ha! That took an archaeological dig in my computer cave. Found my calcs, though. This Skyote project started out in about 1985 as a set of 3-views, copied from my original plans set, and scaled to Peanut-Scale size. The prints of the plans were stowed in a box with all of my other Skyote project historical information, waiting to be rediscovered (20 years later) within the past year.

When RCGroups and GPW intervened, I became interested in scaling the plans to a larger size for an E-RC model. This is the actual project that inspired the development of ScaleAndTile.
[/Edit]

Anyone with ScaleAndTile, or other suitable program, will be able to make his own set of patterns/plans from the 3-view on the Skyote Type Club web site, www.skyote.org. Here's a link that will take you directly to the image: http://skyote.org/Gallery/Miscellane..._3_View?full=1 As soon as we can get it released for posting here on RCG, we'll provide a copy of it here.

[Edit: I talked with Pete Bartoe late this afternoon, 04Nov2007. He gave permission for the Skyote 3-View to be posted here. (See below for original 3-view from www.skyote.org, as well as output files from ScaleAndTile2. There are 60 letter-size tiles. I can post the 50 legal-size tiles, if anyone simply must use legal-size paper.)

More later. Thanks for the prodding.

Cheers,
Bill Segraves
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Last edited by segraves; Nov 05, 2007 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Skyote 3-View Posted
Old Nov 01, 2007, 10:33 PM
ewo
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I love the bypes.....my favorite planes.........................
Will be watching for your build pictures and the video. You thinking 2dim or 3?

Thanks

ewo
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Old Nov 01, 2007, 11:07 PM
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How is this for a tease Bill?

http://www.scalercmodels.com/large%2...SKYOTE%208.JPG
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Old Nov 02, 2007, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakota
Thanks, Don. I was aware of the model, as I have the issue of Scale RC Models in which it was featured.

One correction: the use of E.A.A. in its name is a misnomer.

The model in the picture uses the color scheme of the one I almost bought. Isn't it a beauty. See all the pics at http://www.scalercmodels.com/rcplans.html#8. Then see the real thing at http://www.skyote.org/index.html.

O.K. O.K. I'll go down to my computer cave in the morning and get the original calculations that I used for the 1/12 scale plans.

[Edit: Sample calculations removed for verification, after a good night's sleep]

Cheers,
Bill Segraves
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Last edited by segraves; May 16, 2008 at 05:44 PM. Reason: Sample calculations removed for verification before posting
Old Nov 02, 2007, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewo
I love the bypes.....my favorite planes.........................
Will be watching for your build pictures and the video. You thinking 2dim or 3?

Thanks

ewo
I'm thinking the performance will be similar to the Simple N-28 constructed by GPW, Jasta, et al. With 30" WS, it's about the same size, IIRC, with very similar proportions.

Best regards,
Bill Segraves
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Last edited by segraves; Nov 02, 2007 at 12:58 AM.
Old Nov 02, 2007, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by segraves
Thanks, Don. I was aware of the model, as I have the issue of Scale RC Models in which it was featured.

One correction: the use of E.A.A. in its name is a misnomer.

The model in the picture uses the color scheme of the one I almost bought. Isn't it a beauty. See all the pics at http://www.scalercmodels.com/rcplans.html#8. Then see the real thing at http://www.skyote.org/index.html.

O.K. O.K. I'll go down to my computer cave in the morning and get the original calculations that I used for the 1/12 scale plans.

[Edit: Sample calculations removed for verification, after a good night's sleep]
Here is the procedure to scale and tile the hi-res 3-view at www.skyote.org to 30" WS. The hi-res 3-view (a 300 dpi letter-size JPEG image) has Wing Span (WS) = 4.32 inches. Really! If your image-editing software tells you otherwise, it was probably made by M$. ;-) Here's a way to tell. Run the image through ScaleAndTile, same 3-step as below, but with SF=1. See that the resulting single-page PDF is 8.5"x11". Print a copy. Measure the WS carefully with an accurate scale.

The image is buried deep in the www.skyote.org site. Here's the link:

http://skyote.org/Gallery/Miscellane..._3_View?full=1

Thank you, Google. Wish I'd bought your stock when my sister did. ;-)

3-Step Procedure

1. Scale Factor (SF) = WS (model) / WS (3-view) = 30 / 4.32 = 6.94
2. Launch ScaleAndTile2.
3. Enter "Skyote_3_View.jpg", "6.94", "SS30.pdf", "LETTER", "SS30_tiled.pdf" (Leave out the quotes when you enter the data), and click on the "Do it!" button.

Voila! Plans happen! The above 3-step procedure can be performed in about 1 minute with ScaleAndTile2 (or ScaleAndTile, with its default letter-size tiles). Of course, the program runs in much less time (about 3-1/2 seconds on this 133MHz Toshiba laptop), depending on the speed of your computer. Results to be posted later. [Edit: See post #7 for results, with "SS" expanded to "SimpleSkyote" in the names of the uploaded files.]

Cheers,
Bill Segraves
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Last edited by segraves; Nov 04, 2007 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Added location of hi-res 3-view
Old Nov 02, 2007, 12:38 PM
gpw
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That sure makes it EASY , when you provide all the parameters...THANKS !!!!!
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Old Nov 02, 2007, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
That sure makes it EASY , when you provide all the parameters...THANKS !!!!!
You're very welcome, Glen.

I sent a message to Mike K. at www.skyote.org to see if we can get the hi-res 3-view back online. [Edit: it's there, buried deeper in the site. See the link below.] I also called and left a message for Pete Bartoe, seeking release/approval to post the 3-view online in support of this thread. FYI, I'm only exercising this degree of caution because I signed a license agreement with him when I had set #40 of the plans and wing parts. There may be parts of that agreement that are still binding on me.

More later. Looking for a posted version of the 3-view, anywhere.

[Edit: Found it! Thank you, Google!]

http://skyote.org/Gallery/Miscellane..._3_View?full=1

Best regards,
Bill Segraves
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Last edited by segraves; Nov 02, 2007 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Added link to hi-res 3-view image
Old Jan 26, 2008, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by segraves
You're very welcome, Glen.

I sent a message to Mike K. at www.skyote.org to see if we can get the hi-res 3-view back online. [Edit: it's there, buried deeper in the site. See the link below.] I also called and left a message for Pete Bartoe, seeking release/approval to post the 3-view online in support of this thread. FYI, I'm only exercising this degree of caution because I signed a license agreement with him when I had set #40 of the plans and wing parts. There may be parts of that agreement that are still binding on me.

More later. Looking for a posted version of the 3-view, anywhere.

[Edit: Found it! Thank you, Google!]

http://skyote.org/Gallery/Miscellane..._3_View?full=1

Best regards,
Bill Segraves
The Skyote Type Club web site has moved, so the above link to the 3-view is no longer valid. I'll replace it when/if I find the 3-view on said web site. In the mean time, the same 3-view is posted here with the permission of the designer, O.E. "Pete" Bartoe.

The recent post of an idea for a biplane version of the Piper J-3 reminded me of this "place-holder" thread. In fact, the Skyote was originally known as the "Tiger Cub". Readers familiar with the J-3 Cub and the Tiger Moth will readily see similarities to each of them.

ScaleAndTile has evolved quite a bit since the thread was started, so it is no longer necessary to print a 1x-scaled PDF to determine the Scale Factor for any desired size. Users of ScaleAndTile3, _v3i, will see the possible shortcuts in the scaling procedure.

Finally, users of ScaleAndTile3, _v3k, will be able to extract individual views from the 3-view by judicious use of the cropping and custom tile capabilities.

Cheers,
Bill Segraves

P.S. See sample output produced by ScaleAndTile3, v3k, below.

P.S.2. Tony/Kendall, how about an easy adaptation of the monoblock fuse of the Pawnee, with J-3-Cub-ish nosebowl, Tiger-Moth-ish empennage, and swept J-3-Cub-ish wings?
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