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Old Dec 04, 2002, 03:49 PM
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WimH's Avatar
Belgium, Flemish Region, Oosterzele
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Cardiff
I think a lot of excuses are being made here for Orbit.
....you should back it up with good support.
You're entitled to your opinion. The support I've got from Orbit is one of the best.

As for the " problem"; I'm no electronics expert, but I guess the problem is a combination of a bad or intermittent contact between the charger and the battery, causing a very high voltage spike with high current, pulling the voltage from the power supply down and thus overloading the charger circuit. I guess a resistor got blown. It's not an expensive part to replace. I would guess a schulze would have suffered a similar fate in this case; But they strongly warn against using a power supply (warranty void if you use one?).
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 03:50 PM
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United States, NC, Harrisburg
Joined Mar 1999
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Oops,bad move.

I also think you may have been a little premature in your "attack" email.However,I would send the charger back to the retailer where purchased.I think they will fix,or replace it.Only now,it must be done through the proper channels.If they are very busy at this time,which I have no doubt they are,they don't have time to handle "customer relations".That's what the retailers are for.

What's the old saying about flies and honey............

Quote:
I cannot understand something like this is permitted on this forum. In civil countries it is considered unacceptable to publish private Email without permission
Another bad move.
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 03:53 PM
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Snohomish, WA
Joined May 2000
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Both chargers should be within the 1 year warranty period so I don't understand why:

1) You did not try to get them replaced by the vendor

or

2)Send them back to be serviced under warranty

According to what you wrote, your power supplies are powering your other chargers fine, so due to whatever reason, these units then appeared to fail, so they should be covered under warranty. It might be unusual that you have gotten two chargers that failed but sending emails back and forth to Germany isn't going to get them fixed and a tech can only guess at something that might have happened but can't give you a definitive answer without looking at them.
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 04:01 PM
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Belgium, Flemish Region, Oosterzele
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Re: Oops,bad move.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hammer

Another bad move.
Don't know if you mean my move, but I should have reported the post to the moderators instead of playing the judge myself...

I'm only human
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 04:11 PM
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N. Staffs, UK
Joined Jan 1997
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Cardiff
Another observation.
It seems that the USA ezoners expect a better level of support than our European ezoners.
Interesting.

As for the language issue, if youíre going to sell to a country better hire someone who CAN speak the language if you want to be successful.
Another way of looking at it is that USA ezoners seem to believe that immediate threats and marginal rudeness improve the level of support they will receive. It doesn't work over here. Different cultures perhaps.

I understand that Mr Goldman bought both chargers from within continental North America so I would think the people that Orbit were selling through probably did speak English. And as the chargers are so new we might wonder why the companies who took the money won't simply replace them under warranty. That would be normal business practise, not just for Walmart. If they were mine I wouldn't be messing with Orbit I'd just want replacements, along with explanations so they wouldn't go wrong again. If the explanation turns out to be "It won't actually do what the specs say" I'd want my money back (from the retailer who got my money).

Steve
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 04:32 PM
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Houston,TX
Joined Mar 2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Cardiff
Another observation.
It seems that the USA ezoners expect a better level of support than our European ezoners.
Interesting.

As for the language issue, if youíre going to sell to a country better hire someone who CAN speak the language if you want to be successful.
I don't agree. It was nice that he included all the email in the post. He didn't buy the charger from orbit, he got it from resellers in US and Canada. Using your Walmart example... if it breaks you go back to Walmart, you don't send attack emails to the guys in china that made the stuff Walmart sells and expect instant service. If the units are really new the reseller should be able to handle the exchange.
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 05:40 PM
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King Of Prussia, Pennsylvania, United States
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Ugh.........

Guys,

Does the term 'Ugly American" mean anything to you. Why do we have to resort to threats to blast a company on the Internet when we are dealing with a service tech who is trying to help. Why then do we need to jump in with the "learn to speak english" arguement...........

The chargers are under warranty, return them to the seller for a replacement or refund.

Finally, I really would recommend that you don't open them up and try to fix them. If it doesn't work you will void the warranty and be left with nothing.

Flame me all you want, but this is really bad form.

John
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 05:50 PM
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WimH,

Perhaps you could have worded it this way:

A civil person considers it unacceptable to..........





Quote:
It seems that the USA ezoners expect a better level of support than our European ezoners.
Why would you say that?????



Quote:
Another way of looking at it is that USA ezoners seem to believe that immediate threats and marginal rudeness improve the level of support they will receive. It doesn't work over here. Different cultures perhaps.
Not me!I don't think that works anywhere.Kinda goes along with my fly theory
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 09:33 PM
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Chicagoland
Joined Feb 2000
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I personally would not use either one of those power supplies with such a charger. I do use switching power supplies with my equipment, but I always use an external capacitor of 120,000uF to make sure that the switching supplies do not interact with each other. Personally, I won't spend a dime on a Pyramid anything but that's my own choice coming from experience in the car audio world. The Rivergate is a good supply but may not have the right design to handle a switching load, without an external capacitor. At 100 or 150W it may not be critical but when pushed to over 300W it may become a problem.

Schulze is very picky about what kind of power supply they recommend for their chargers. For some time they did not recommend use with power supplies at all, unitl they found some that would work. The ones they do recommend have very high pricetags and are high quality units.

Greg
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 10:39 PM
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Palmdale, CA
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Re: Ugh.........

Quote:
Originally posted by bitzerj
Guys,

Does the term 'Ugly American" mean anything to you. Why do we have to resort to threats to blast a company on the Internet when we are dealing with a service tech who is trying to help. Why then do we need to jump in with the "learn to speak english" arguement...........

The chargers are under warranty, return them to the seller for a replacement or refund.

Finally, I really would recommend that you don't open them up and try to fix them. If it doesn't work you will void the warranty and be left with nothing.

Flame me all you want, but this is really bad form.

John
.
I totally agree!
Looking at the dates on the e-mail (this type of behavior, publishing inquiries to vendors ALWAYS makes the "injured party" look like a short-fused person) the initial message to Orbit was posted on a Friday from the US.. which gets to Germany on a Saturday... And apparently Orbit failed to drop everything to satisfy Ed Goldman's request by Monday, so another message was tossed on the pyre..
.
It is "really bad form" to engage in this less than useful behavior in public. Keep it PRIVATE!
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 11:56 PM
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O.K. Dare I get back to the bottom line? I'll give it a try:

All you folks who have been defending Orbit through this tiring thread, I solicit your response:

Should I buy an Orbit? I like everything about it on paper and I don't mind the price. It seems to have it all. But this reliability issue is making this decision difficult. This hobby is supposed to be fun. That means I don't want something that breaks, especially if I have to send it back to Germany?

Please, no replies about how Ed jumped the gun and ugly Americans. Let's get back to our hobby. I need a charger. I need the experience of this community to help me out. I suspect there's plenty of others out there who, like me, were getting close to buying an Orbit until this mess (and similar reliability problems threads) appeared. Should I get that Schulze instead?

Heck, I'm starting to get tired of all this complication in chargers and considering the trusty ol' AstroFlights again. I'm not so sure these "smart" chargers are smarter then just settin' the ol current POT and leavin' it alone.
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Old Dec 05, 2002, 12:57 AM
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USA, AK, Juneau
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I had a horrible experience with Orbit after receiving a damaged product (packed that way - not shipping damage). I patiently insisted that they replace it. I did not threaten or bully - just insisted on my rights as a consumer. The exchange lasted months and ended with them suggesting that we Americans had it coming on September 11, 2001. I no longer do business with them.
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Old Dec 05, 2002, 01:13 AM
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Holbaek, Denmark
Joined May 2000
161 Posts
MaxFx: can You prove what You are saying, otherwise don`t
say it!

herman2002: I own a Orbit Pro and had so far no problems
at all.
Stig
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Old Dec 05, 2002, 03:10 AM
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USA, AK, Juneau
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Stig: I do not need to prove anything. It happened.
I'm glad your experience with Orbit is good - mine wasn't, which is why I chose to share my experience.
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Old Dec 05, 2002, 03:29 AM
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Belgium, Flemish Region, Oosterzele
Joined Dec 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
WimH,

Perhaps you could have worded it this way:

A civil person ...
That could have been better, but would have taken it on a personal level. I did not mean my original statement to have the meaning some people may have read in it ( how's that for a politically correct statement).

As for the question "should I buy an Orbit".

If I had to buy my first charger, I'd buy the latest schulze (ISL6-330d?). As bullet-proof as they get, Schulze probably has the best charging algorithm (for nicads), and this one has a fair price (in Europe at least). I've never needed service for my schulze products, so I cannot say anything about that, but I do consider Ulf Herder (schulze "developer") a good friend and from what I hear the service level is very high (not many people "repair" controllers, schulze does...)

So why am I using an orbit. Well, it's cheaper, does more amps (but less cells) and is more versatile. I prefer it's 'gel battery' charging algorithm. In short, I like it, and cannot really say why , but I had both and ended up using the orbit exclusively.

I did have a few failures ( all involving a burnt resistor (in or output , can't remeber. ), because once I "shorted" something with the cooling fins, every other time 'discharging" single cells with 8A and messing with an improper connection. Since the last resistor replacement I have no more problems ( I now know what to do. The first time I sent the charger back to Orbit, it was repaired without costs, but there was the postage of course. All other issues were settled via Email and a friend who is better at soldering and electronics than I am.

For both chargers: Use a very good quality power supply, preferably a car battery to avoid problems. Not everybody will have problems (depends, again, on what you do with it).

Are there other good chargers? probably, but I have no experiŽnce with those, so other people might chime in. (I will be trying the robbe Maxamp next (12A !). If I had more money, I'd buy an High-end Schulze....
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