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Old Oct 09, 2007, 10:33 AM
vdoeditor
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E-Flite Taylorcraft 450 ARF

Was looking at the new Taylorcraft 450 ARF from E-Flite...and read on their website "Marvel at the incredibly Accurate Appearance" So I started to look closely at this bird and found something VERY innaccurate about the tail feathers....the vertical fin and rudder to be exact. As most probably know...a piper cub rudder and fin have a 90 degree cut at the top of the hinge line where they come together...the part of the Cub rudder in front of the hinge line gives it a sort of counterbalance so to speak against the force applied to the rudder behind the hinge point. The post-war Aeronca Chief & Champ have the same type of configuration only the hinge line shoots off at a 45 deg. angle toward the top instead of a 90 deg. like the Cub.

Now on to the inaccurate tail of the new Taylorcraft 450....a full scale T-craft rudder has a straight hinge line from top to bottom...in the pics of E-Flites new Taylorcraft 450 you will find an Aeronca rudder configuration...VERY NOT true to scale....and to be really picky...T-Crafts also use jury struts to support the main wing struts.

I fly a full scale 1946 Taylorcraft BC12-D....and although they have done a magnificent job with this new 450 model it would be nice if they would have gone the extra mile to really make it true to scale. Wouldn't you think that if you sat down at the drawing board to design your company's next scale model to release, you would do your homework on the aircraft's body lines???

Any thoughts?
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Old Oct 09, 2007, 01:02 PM
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Photos?
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Old Oct 09, 2007, 02:03 PM
vdoeditor
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pics

here are pics of a full-scale T-Craft tail and also an Aeronca tail.

and then pics of the E-Flite TC 450 ARF

Dont get me wrong...this is a beautiful model...just not "accurate" like they claim.
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Old Oct 09, 2007, 02:10 PM
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To be a real nitpick, isn' t the vertical stab offset in relation to the fuselage as well??
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Old Oct 09, 2007, 02:13 PM
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Old Oct 09, 2007, 02:14 PM
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Interesting, I had not noticed that. Oh-well I'm still getting one. I'm suprised you didn't mention the missing tail wheel?
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Old Oct 09, 2007, 03:37 PM
vdoeditor
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Hey Todd...this is kinda cool...that pic that you posted of the T-Craft F-21 from airliners.net was taken at the airfield where I learned to fly. Barber aircraft in Alliance, Ohio (15 min. from where I live) hosts the annual Taylorcraft fly-in every year. The Taylorcraft factory from the 40's is just through the woods from where that plane is sitting...(it is owned of course by a different company now, but a few years ago they let us go for a tour...the mount for the windsock is still on the end of the building from the 40's) When you fly over you can still see where the old runways were. Forest Barber (my flight inst.) owns Barber airfield, but years back his dad owned it, and worked for Taylorcraft as a test pilot. So much history there....but kinda cool to see a pic from the runway I fly off of.

Oh, and i will still probably get an E-flite Tcraft as well (but I will probably rebuild the tail so it looks right.....cuz it just bugs me) :-)

I attached some neat Taylorcraft pics:
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 11:04 AM
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Since it would have been just as easy or easier to make a straight hinge line, my guess is perhaps this change enhances the models flight performance. It certainly couldn't have been an oversight, a mistake, or laziness of someone not doing their homework! Bringing products to market takes prototypes, reviews, production analysis, etc.. I'd be quite surprised if the change in the model from it's full scale inspiration was a result of any negligence or lack of consideration.

ok- just found this- here some explanation-
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=32
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 11:19 AM
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Well be sure to post your modifications for us to see.
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Old Oct 10, 2007, 11:55 AM
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from the previous link - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=32 - John Redman talks of the plans for the 450 Taylorcraft resulting from a reduced version of a Hangar 9 clipped wing T-craft ARF no longer in production. As luck would have it, the info pages on that H-9 offering are still up. From that info there's this tidbit;

"Hangar 9's new Clipped Wing Taylorcraft ARF is a replica of a one-of-a-kind full-scale airplane built by renowned aircraft restoration expert, Jim Moss. Jim based much of his work on plans for a clipped-wing T-Craft that was flown by Margaret Ritchie when she won the National Aerobatics Advanced Class title in 1961. Ever the innovator, Mr. Moss added a few distinct touches of his own to the design as well. The result was an extraordinary aviation classic that is the only one of its kind in the world."

So, as best I can follow it; the new Eflite 450 T-craft is a reduced version of an earlier 85.5" wingspan Hangar 9 T-craft, which was a replica of a one-off T-craft by Jim Moss, which in turn was modeled after plans for Margaret Ritchie's competition plane with some innovations added by Mr. Moss!

Somewhere in that mutation the rudder grew an appendix.

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Old Oct 11, 2007, 08:21 PM
vdoeditor
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Nice

Dude...props go out to you for your research...that is amazing to me that you found all that out...great job. As for the modified tail...if it is a replica of a real one it's good enough for me :-) should be an awesome airplane...cant wait to fly one!!!
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Old Oct 12, 2007, 05:10 PM
BEC
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Both the rudder and the elevators....if you look at other pictures on the Horizon site the elevators are similarly mutated on the model. Ostensibly the airplane they used for their prior Hangar 9 model was so modified. In the other thread Mr. Redman says that the color scheme for N4417B shown above is NOT the correct one for the actual airplane they modeled (and hence the N number, too). N4417B is a T-Craft F-21 that does NOT have clipped wings and does not have those counterbalanced rudder/elevators. The rudder outline is not right low on the TE either....

It still remains a question as to which airplane they actually used. I couldn't find anything about a T-Craft built/rebuilt by a Mr. Moss nor a T-Craft now owned by a Mr. Harold Hansen - but I haven't looked too hard yet.
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Old Oct 12, 2007, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
Both the rudder and the elevators....if you look at other pictures on the Horizon site the elevators are similarly mutated on the model. Ostensibly the airplane they used for their prior Hangar 9 model was so modified. In the other thread Mr. Redman says that the color scheme for N4417B shown above is NOT the correct one for the actual airplane they modeled (and hence the N number, too). N4417B is a T-Craft F-21 that does NOT have clipped wings and does not have those counterbalanced rudder/elevators. The rudder outline is not right low on the TE either....

It still remains a question as to which airplane they actually used. I couldn't find anything about a T-Craft built/rebuilt by a Mr. Moss nor a T-Craft now owned by a Mr. Harold Hansen - but I haven't looked too hard yet.
It seems clear from what we know that the 450 doesn't come from a single plane. From what I can gather they used one plane as a paint scheme inspiration, and used the earlier T-craft from H9 for modeling the airframe. The earlier H9 was inspired from a one off by Mr. Moss, and he took some of his design from plans of Margaret Ritchie's plane, as noted in the info from that model. Since Ms. Ritchie bird was an aerobat, maybe the rudder and elevator mods came in there?

It seems clear the the 450 has a nice combination of a period color scheme and influences from the earlier kit and it's history through Mr. Moss and Ms. Ritchie. It doesn't sound to me that the color and airframe mods exist in the same full scale bird.

Not that it matters to me much- I just like research and discovery. I'm anxious to see this thing if it's at the iHobby booth with the Texan- another new gem from Eflite.
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Old Oct 12, 2007, 09:46 PM
BEC
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Agreed - there are at least two airplanes involved. I'm just looking for the ID of the clipped-wing T-craft that provides the outlines (including the mods). If one was to campaign this model in scale one would need the outline and the markings to be of the same airplane.....but then, that's not the point of this model, really.
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Old Oct 18, 2007, 09:17 PM
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just when i thought i didnt need another plane....
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