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Old Jun 28, 2009, 08:56 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marillion1
Hi all,
would like to grab this threat out again, 'cause i did not find a complete Setup for the ceres. I will use today the setup above, but would like to know if someone tested a different setup. For example, what about thermik condition ?? Full Flaps to aileron ? aileron up by butterfly ??


greetings, Kai

For thermal, I use about 4mm down flap, and ailerons matching, with a LOT of aileron differential, and a good amount of rudder mixed in. Also a small amount of down elevator with the camber.

I use flaperon mixing, my flaps move about 1/3 as much as my ailerons,maybe a bit more.

For Butterfly, I only use a small amount of up ailerons, about 6mm.

Have fun,
Target
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Old Jun 28, 2009, 09:55 AM
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Joined Nov 2008
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Wow, had my first flight today. It was amazing. I fly a special version with 2 layers 200ercfk. Heavy (2800Gramm). The setup you mentioned before seems to be a good start. I will do some finetuning within the next weeks. Fantastic modell...

thanks for this thread, Kai
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Old Jun 28, 2009, 10:00 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Glad to hear the first flight was good for you, Kai.

I sometimes use a very small bit of camber on my slider when the lift is light (1-1.5mm) to make the plane a bit more buoyant. Since your plane is heavier than normal, you might try that a bit.

Good luck with more flights.

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Old Dec 01, 2009, 12:33 PM
One Idiot is plenty...
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Planet Earth
Joined Jun 2005
4,963 Posts
Finally got all supplies for my Ceres-E/F/.
Will be finished soon.
Stealing Your settings Target.Cant belive 25mm UP aelerons/at flaps/.Kinda lot/?/
I usually couple both flaps and aelerons /equal throw/ at half of Your rating for faster response.But will try to do Yours first ,as all ways respect Your opinion.
What's killing me also is "7.5mm -High Rate and 6MM-Low rate on elevator."
Thanx Target.
Yuri.
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Old Dec 01, 2009, 04:23 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Hi, Yuri-

I have since reduced my settings, but not by too much, maybe 30% in the race flight phase only; I leave the throws fairly hot for landings.

Also, per Dr Drela's recommendation, I never use the flap even with the aileron for "flaperons", rather about 1/2-1/3 of the aileron throw.

I would have to measure the planes' throw to get back to you, but I won't have time tonight, and leave on a 12 day trip in the morning for work.

I have the flap servos setup on a 5 point curve; they come down slower at first, to keep the plane from ballooning at partial flap.

I measure everything at the roots of the surfaces, so that 25mm aileron throw might be a bit deceiving. I'm certain I have at least 20mm on high throws though, I like a lot of roll response when the plane is down close to the lip of a slope, like at Point Fermin.

You can get away with less, when flying in big air. As always, most of my settings and experience relate to F3F flying, so my preferences may not be to some's likings.

Diff should start at 2:1 with a little rudder mixing to taste.

Good luck on your maiden; shiney side up for landings recommended.

R,
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Old Dec 01, 2009, 09:17 PM
One Idiot is plenty...
Dbox's Avatar
Planet Earth
Joined Jun 2005
4,963 Posts
Thanx Target.
My ears wide open for Your advice.
That 5 point curve for flaps is very interesting ,I have never thought of that.
Its really cool.
Have a great trip.
Yuri.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 08:54 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
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So, after ALL this time, I have to say that I am still impressed by how well the Ceres flies on the slope.
I honestly don't see a need to look any further for a allegedly "better" F3F plane in medium to good lift. Just give me a properly ballasted and setup F layup Ceres, and I'm happy (and competitive!)

R,
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 12:17 AM
Another crack in the wing
Australia, WA, Northam
Joined Dec 2006
63 Posts
Target can you share your final settings for the ceres ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by target View Post
So, after ALL this time, I have to say that I am still impressed by how well the Ceres flies on the slope.
I honestly don't see a need to look any further for a allegedly "better" F3F plane in medium to good lift. Just give me a properly ballasted and setup F layup Ceres, and I'm happy (and competitive!)

R,
Target
Target,
I fly a ceres f3b on and off the slope. UnLike yours my ceres has black and white wings and white fuse none rds version. I use 1mm reflex on both flaps and aileron and 7mm snap flap with 12mm up aileron and 6mm down on high rates , Up elevator is 6mm high 4mm low down is 4mm high 3mm low. I was wondering what your settings might be now you have been flying for 5-6 yrs mine flies like it is on rails until I wriggle the sticks fast on the straight with between 8-10 slugs in the wing at 10 -15 knts square on . Do you know how to work out when the flaps at neutral position??

Grant
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 09:10 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Grant-

For lining up the trailing edge, I just line up the tips and ailerons, and the flaps to the ailerons.
I have similar settings to yours, probably slightly less snapflap, slightly more aileron throw, with some expo to soften the centers.
I also have noticed that I don't like reflex on the Ceres when flying the slope. I have used a little (same amout as you) for flat field flying, but don't use any for sloping. I find the plane more stable that way (flaps and ailerons in section) when running the ridge at lip slopes like Fermin.

R,
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 08:16 PM
Another crack in the wing
Australia, WA, Northam
Joined Dec 2006
63 Posts
ceres setup

Target, I also use 30% expo on aileron and rudder, I dont have any coupling between rudder and aileron, carving turns better but must make mine not so wide. I probably fly a 150mtr course per lap. Yet to get my ceres below 51 sec.
I use to fly a calypso contest until terra firma bit the wing full ballast into the hillside the guy at base B nearly got hit by 170gm missiles luckly he ducked. The calypso got down 48 sec my fastest time. We have our state event coming up in march down south at town called Albany. Ive put my order in for a ssw wind hopefully it arrives. The slope has 300 ft sand cliff to the great southern ocean this and esperance which was last weekend are W.A. premier slope soaring sites if you wish to see esperance have a look at perth slope soaring site on this forum. It's probably nothing like you have in the USA. The slopes always look better when you travel 500-750 km away. I used to live at Esperance had to move due to family illness, I used fly when ever the winds where up.
Grant
P.S. thankyou for the reply cheer's
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:25 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Yes, the Ceres is best served fast, and making tight hard turns won't generally return the best F3F time, in my experience.

It sounds also like you may be flying a bit too heavy for the lift?? Often, that works against you in that while your start speed is better heavy (providing you get a good start), if you happen to scrub the speed off in any turn but the last one, you will have to pay for that mistake the rest of the run, because its harder to build speed back with a heavier plane....

So here are my suggestions to you.
Try a little less weight, and a little less snapflap. Your elevator throws sound fine to me, and I like maybe a little more aileron throw, but if you are comfortable, less is better from the speed standpoint.
Also try NO reflex in the wing on the course. Add what ever click or two of downtrim to mek the plane run, and CG@ 107 was good for me.

I personally have a strategy on rudder mix for V-tailed F3F planes that sort of bucks the system-

The slower the plane is going, the more I use. How?
I have a switch that enables or disables rudder mix. I have lots in thermal mode, less in cruise mode, and less in speed mode (flying F3F in speed mode, flaps and ailerons in section), about 1.5mm or so rudder mix in speed mode....

If the times are under 45 seconds, I normally shut off the rudder mix. If the times are above 45 seconds, I turn it on.

Basically, I feel that rudder mix added in large quantity to an F3F plane that flys fast is bad, especially if someone is not smooth on the sticks. First off, its not pure yaw like a vertical is on a cross tail. The deflections also fight the aileron roll input. But mostly, if you are banging the stick around, you often can get some tail wagging going on, especially if you have a large amount of rudder mix.

I DO think that a little does help, and reduces the need for aileron diff, which in the end allows less overall aileron throw, which again is less draggy....

It sounds like you are already making carving open turns with the Ceres. Work on cutting!
Thats right, CUT a turn at the next small comp. Do it on BOTH ends! Why?

WHY NOT! Fly 12 legs on one round (plan on this for your throw out), and FIND the bases. Find them, you can. Your plane flying a 103m course at the same speed as your buddy's plane will beat him if he flys a 105m course. That's 20m added up on 10 legs....

Don't fly a short course by over turning, setup your turns sooner, but not too soon (don't "pose" the model semi-inverted for 10m, and wait for the beep!), it will kill your energy. Energy is speed. Don't lose it.

OK, you have your homework, go out and practice it, try a few things, and find out what works for you.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, make a new model memory if you are going to try a new setup, so if you think its no good, you can get back to where you were easily.

The best hill to fly is the one you go faster than your buddies on. Its probably where YOU fly now.

Best of luck to you.

R,
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Last edited by target; Feb 02, 2013 at 06:44 AM.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 01:18 AM
Another crack in the wing
Australia, WA, Northam
Joined Dec 2006
63 Posts
Thankyou

Hi Target, thankyou again for your help now I know i will be heading in the right direction.
Cheer's Grant
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 06:42 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
20,839 Posts
Good luck at the upcoming comps!

R,
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