SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old May 28, 2001, 07:26 PM
Registered User
Anacortes, Wa.
Joined Oct 1999
19 Posts
Park flyers/slow flyers...am I grumpy or...

Just got back from four days at a wonderful fly-in. During the course of four days of great flying a thought kept occuring to me...usually while flying my heavily loaded large sport plane and particular while landing same. The thought was "Just what the H#$@ are the three guys next to me thinking (or not thinking) while they are buzzing me (over me, around me and behind me...over the pits, over the campers and over the parking lot) with their Zagi's, Park Flyers and Slowflyers????? Why is it that people who fly these think it is alright to fly directly in front of and over other pilots and all over the airspace directly over the runway rather than on the other side of the runway as most field rules require. It is very hard to concentrate on flying your aircraft when you are constantly cringing at the visual and audible distractions whipping around the pilot stations.
Of course, this begs another thought (see AMA post below which I haven't read...just glanced at the title). Do these craft have a place at the field? Or, should they be restricted to the back yards and parks that they tout being so ideal for?
Any thoughts on this....
Cheers
Keith is offline Find More Posts by Keith
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old May 28, 2001, 07:43 PM
Registered User
L.L. N.M. U.S.A.
Joined Apr 2001
149 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Keith:
Just got back from four days at a wonderful fly-in. During the course of four days of great flying a thought kept occuring to me...usually while flying my heavily loaded large sport plane and particular while landing same. The thought was "Just what the H#$@ are the three guys next to me thinking (or not thinking) while they are buzzing me (over me, around me and behind me...over the pits, over the campers and over the parking lot) with their Zagi's, Park Flyers and Slowflyers????? Why is it that people who fly these think it is alright to fly directly in front of and over other pilots and all over the airspace directly over the runway rather than on the other side of the runway as most field rules require. It is very hard to concentrate on flying your aircraft when you are constantly cringing at the visual and audible distractions whipping around the pilot stations.
Of course, this begs another thought (see AMA post below which I haven't read...just glanced at the title). Do these craft have a place at the field? Or, should they be restricted to the back yards and parks that they tout being so ideal for?
Any thoughts on this....
Cheers
It's the same people that belong to the group that take their jet skis to a "NO WAKE LAKE" here in N.M.& elsewhere!
Thank god we have Park Rangers to fix this problem. Wish we could do this in this hobby.
Could the Park Rangers be us? HOW?

Jim Ward is offline Find More Posts by Jim Ward
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2001, 07:46 PM
Registered User
Zebulon, NC
Joined Aug 2000
5,086 Posts
Better get your flame suit on hehehe


I like to fly those parkflyers too, but yes it is annoying when people fly them over your head while your trying to fly your plane.
Steve H. is offline Find More Posts by Steve H.
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2001, 08:36 PM
Registered User
Aero-BearAZ's Avatar
Mesa, AZ USA
Joined Mar 2001
86 Posts
Keith,

Here in the Phoenix area we have a term for flyers like that. We call them the rendagade fliers. Generally they fly someplace out in the desert where they generally can't do anyone harm. However, there are times when a situation like yours comes up. Since they have no organization, or a clue as to good flying/flying site ettiquette, they fly all over the place. Most of the time in a very unsafe manner.

I have a park across the street from my house that I've been known to fly my Ferias and Lite Stik at. However, I've also been in the hobby for 22+ years. I keep the aircraft in front of me and never fly over other people, its just plain rude. I've always been a member of an organized club and have learned from that organization the ettiquette of flying RC. I also know that I'm not anywhere close to a sanctioned flying site.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this but...

The true problem lies in the new "park flyers" that are becoming available that are virtually flyable by anyone. Hobby shop employees and owners need to step up to the plate and encourage those folks who buy these planes to join a club or at least visit an AMA sanctioned flying site. In general I think that shop owners/employees do this. The people we really need to worry about are the folks that buy these planes from Costco, K-mart, Walmart etc. There isn't anyone there with any knowledge to speak of regarding safety, frequencies or flying ettiquette.

I don't think that restricting these park flyers to parks and back yards is the answer. In fact I think that would lead to potentially bigger problems of frequency issues. Rather I think that clubs and members need to embrace these entry modellers, the park flyers and help to point them in the right direction.

In regards to frequencies, the AMA, FCC and possibly the FAI need to work together with manufacturers of these "store bought" models and impliment some kind of guide to help educate the purchaser as to the importance of frequency management, flying ettiquette etc.

Generally speaking I think that most people would get more enjoyment out of their new found hobby by sharing it with others who have the same interests. I think that it is up to us, the informed, experienced RC pilots to help this happen. By befriending these people we can gain further enjoyment for ourselves and feel like we are giving back to the hobby. I do this as much as possible because I remember how it was to be 10 years old and having an experienced rc pilot give me the box for the first time. He didn't have to do that but he did, and I'm greatful!

I'll step off the soap box now. <G>

Tom
Aero-BearAZ is offline Find More Posts by Aero-BearAZ
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2001, 09:14 PM
Registered User
Manahawkin, NJ, USA
Joined Apr 2001
16 Posts
The real issue is not the type of plane but the type of individual. Unfortunately, courtesy and sense are not common.

I was up at a local school recently with my pico stik cub. There was nobody in site for a while. A gentleman walking his dog came up and we talked a bit, he asked what channel I was on and told me that he flew up at the school from time to time. When I first started it never occured to me that someone else might be up there flying. Now I watch for him when I go up there. Had this guy not approached me this simple thing could have been a problem.

I would like to join some local group if I can find one, I haven't had a lot of luck to this point. Hopefully when I do, if I am screwing something up, the others there will have the sense to say something to me.
PaulNJ is offline Find More Posts by PaulNJ
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2001, 09:33 PM
Registered User
Bleriot's Avatar
Joined May 2000
2,837 Posts
Funny you should mention this.I was flying at home this afternoon and making slow but close passes to myself with an 8 oz slowflyer when the thought occured to me that this behavior would not be allowed at a sanctioned fiels with rules in place for both pilot and spectator safety.I think it may be that us electric slowflyers may mostly be self taught and have not been educated as to the correct behavior at a club or event. Thankfully, I no longer have to be in a club to fly, as I do it all at home. Best Regards
Bleriot is offline Find More Posts by Bleriot
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2001, 10:07 PM
Registered User
ScottS's Avatar
Houston,TX
Joined Mar 2000
1,217 Posts
I have also seen this at a fly-in and it bothers me too. They real question is where is the CD or safety officer for the event? I know it isn't a popular job and many electric events try to be laid-back and low-key, but someone needs to explain where the flight areas are and if the pilot can't keep there aircraft in the flight areas they need to be grounded.


[This message has been edited by ScottS (edited 05-28-2001).]
ScottS is offline Find More Posts by ScottS
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2001, 10:18 PM
RPV builder & operator
Pierre Audette's Avatar
Canada, QC, Gatineau
Joined Jan 2001
2,303 Posts
Perhaps all slow fly planes manufacturers should include an etiquette booklet with their planes for novices to read, or have LHS (and web stores) supply them to first time buyers, soon to be pilots.

Worst thing that could happen, if it gets out of control, is that we would have to pass a test to get a license to fly! Which is exaxtly what happened here in Canada for boaters, due to increasing PWC incidents.
Pierre Audette is offline Find More Posts by Pierre Audette
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2001, 10:18 PM
Registered User
Walled Lake, MI, USA
Joined Feb 2000
11,182 Posts
Bleriot, I was doing the same this evening -- making slow passes at myself with a Firebird. On one especially good pass, I had it lined up right between my eyes, and at the last second leaned to the left like a bullfighter and let it whiz over my right shoulder. I was surprised to hear applause and turned to see two middle-age men standing at the edge of the field smiling and clapping their hands. I was a little flustered as I didn't know anyone was around. Truth is, if I saw a kid doing something like this, I'd probably tell him how dangerous it was if a gust of wind came up and blew it into his face. Well, maybe it's not so dangerous with a soft-nose, slow-flying pusher like the Firebird. OK, so I wasn't setting a very good example. But that's why I like flying by myself in an empty field, and that's why you'll never catch me flying an aircraft near anyone else.
Dave Hederich is offline Find More Posts by Dave Hederich
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2001, 10:33 PM
Registered User
Anacortes, Wa.
Joined Oct 1999
19 Posts
Just a thanks for all the thoughtful insight above. I really expected to get flamed to a cinder on this. It seems, though, that even those flying these cute little ships realize there is a potential problem. I think the most common denominator in all the replies seems to be education or enforcement of existing rules.
Well, I just brought it up to get people thinking on the subject. Just looking through the magazines and it is obvious this problem is here to stay.
Cheers
Keith is offline Find More Posts by Keith
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2001, 10:37 PM
Registered User
Aero-BearAZ's Avatar
Mesa, AZ USA
Joined Mar 2001
86 Posts
Pierre,

When I got into the hobby however many years ago, you had to get a license from the FCC to use the radio gear. There was no test involved, but it did make you aware of the potential for trouble concerning frequencies. I for one have no problem with the FCC implimenting this again, if it should ever happen that is. In fact I think they should.

In a similar post someone mentioned that someone could possibly lose an expensive aircraft to someone flying a cheap park flyer that doesn't know any better, flying said park flyer down the road from a sanctioned flying site. Well the potential for this happening is just as easy within the sanctioned flying site. I think what they failed to look at was the bigger picture... the lost of limb or possibly life if a large aircraft were to go in because of something like this.

The truly stupid thing about the "renagade" pilots is that they, themselves are the first to get bent out of shape if another "renagade" pilot (or anyone) dorks one in within a few feet of them.

Like they say, ignorance is bliss. or, common sense isn't so common.

Tom
Aero-BearAZ is offline Find More Posts by Aero-BearAZ
Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2001, 12:22 AM
Single-task at best...
tim hooper's Avatar
Telford, UK
Joined Feb 2000
7,501 Posts
Everyone in our club is subject to the same basic rules, regardless of ehether they're flying a Chubby Lady or a 1/4 Cub;

Never fly behind the flightline.

Pilot to remain in the pilots 'box'.

When there is more than one model in the air, then take-off/launches & landings to be made in the same general direction.


Mind you, when I get the field to myself it's a little different!

tim
tim hooper is offline Find More Posts by tim hooper
Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2001, 08:26 AM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Any and all models should be welcome at a field, particularly a fly-in. However, there are rules, and if they were flying in violation of those rules, they should have been asked to correct their actions. If they failed, they should be asked to leave. It should never get to that, however. Last thing you want is an unhappy pilot with a transmitter lurking around the field!
..a
Andy W is offline Find More Posts by Andy W
Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2001, 09:19 AM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Keith
You have every right to be concerned. The kind of behaviour you report is nothing short of stupid, heading into criminal. I ask the same question as someone else - whoinell was in charge here?

I start the pilot's brief at our club funfly by pointing out to fliers that we have model grabbing trees in different locations to their home site, and our no-fly zones. I also mention that flying over the pits won't be tolerated.

In the course of a lot of flying over two days, I only had to go suggest to a couple of folk that what they were going wasn't a good idea, and they obliged. You fly at a strange site with unfamiliar visual clues, and it's easy enough to end up where the natives all know not to fly.

Crowd buzzing, persistent overflight of no-fly zones and the like - I could stand the unpopularity of telling someone to get it down and go home if it became obvious it was their idea of fun.

There is no reason for parkies, indoors and all other models to be exempt from common sense operation. Given that application of CS, all electric models can co-exist happily - we just proved that over two days.

Sadly, "me first" is a culture that's spread from the roads to everywhere else. Add the "hobby buyers" that the ARF culture is inflicting on our hobby, along with everyone else's, and sometimes the only course of action is going home so that any legal consquences land on their thick heads.

Yes, I have occasionally dreamed of the FAA / CAA stepping in and issuing / enforcing model aviation licences. That would clear out a load of turkeys by next weekend .

Tim has "the rules" down simply - it's amazing how they can be encapsulated into a few sentences rather than reams of legalese. Shame something so simple can't be followed by all.

Regards

Dereck

Dereck is offline Find More Posts by Dereck
Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2001, 09:19 AM
Suspended Account
USA, FL, Apopka
Joined Dec 2000
4,072 Posts
Questions for the group:

Are the flight characteristics for the small Parkflyers (s280 and smaller motors) so different that there is a need for a lower, slower, and closer in pattern than what we normally fly with IC planes?

Can Parkflyers and IC mix comfortably in a pattern together?

Should Parkflyers have a separate flying area like helicopters have at many fields?

Should we encourage separate "small field" Parkflyer clubs?

Brad
bradpaul is offline Find More Posts by bradpaul
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nextel batteries in park/slow flyers tenover Batteries and Chargers 3 Jul 30, 2002 09:55 PM
Batteries for Park/Slow Flyers? squelchF18 Parkflyers 1 Apr 02, 2002 08:18 PM
Please help make the move into Slow Flyers. poobs Parkflyers 16 Jun 22, 2001 09:54 PM
Computer batteries for slow flyers?? Paul Penney Parkflyers 3 Jun 14, 2001 12:00 AM
.An Obstacale Course For Slow Flyers! mattkyle Parkflyers 6 Jun 08, 2001 04:29 PM