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Old Sep 26, 2007, 07:57 PM
I'm not flying backwards!
Tony65x55's Avatar
Oshawa, Canada
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** Piper PA-36 Pawnee Brave Ag-Plane – Plans, Pics and FUN! **

** Piper PA-36 Pawnee Brave Ag-Plane – Plans, Pics and FUN! **

At the request of members of this forum, I introduce you to the park scale PA-36 Pawnee Brave Ag-Plane. This 4 channel aircraft is the first of a series of classic Piper aircraft I have drafted plans for and should provide a pile of fun to the foamie lover. It features a 48.5-inch span, high aspect ratio, KFm2 wing with large ailerons for excellent maneuverability. It is designed to be flown with one of the inexpensive brushless motors like the BP21. The plane should be quite nimble and aerobatic, although not 3D.

The Pawnee utilizes the same successful “monobloc” construction as developed for the Blu-Baby series of planes. This style of construction trades a very small amount of weight for a brute-tough front end to mount the landing gear and motor to, while providing a durable, solid housing for batteries and electronics. The battery bay is oversized to permit the movement of the battery for CG adjustment.

As time constraints did not permit the testing of a beta build of the Pawnee, RCG’ers Gramps and Miniman have graciously offered their time to build this model. Thanks guys, I appreciate it! With your tremendous building skills I have no doubt the Pawnee will perform as designed.

As always, this aircraft is given to RC Groups members for their recreational enjoyment. This design is not for commercial use.

Have fun!

Tony
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Old Sep 26, 2007, 08:10 PM
Use whatcha got!
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Metairie, LA
Joined Sep 2000
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Going to follow this one closely...
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Old Sep 26, 2007, 08:51 PM
I'm not flying backwards!
Tony65x55's Avatar
Oshawa, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
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Ag planes a re very cool Mike. This one will be a blast

Tony
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Old Sep 26, 2007, 09:40 PM
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Northern Nevada
Joined Mar 2007
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Focus...Focus... Focus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
Ag planes a re very cool Mike. This one will be a blast

Tony
Tony .... Your'e making very hard for me to stay focused on the Hawk

I'll download the plans but I swear I'm not touching them tonight. Focus...focus...focus. Bob
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Old Sep 26, 2007, 09:54 PM
Use whatcha got!
msmith's Avatar
Metairie, LA
Joined Sep 2000
2,982 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
Ag planes a re very cool Mike. This one will be a blast

Tony

Tony - I've always loved the ag's... Airtruk, AgWagon, etc...

I think it's because some of the first planes that I saw 'flying' up close were Ags along side of I-10 flying over crops... Those guys are absolutely bat guano crazy, but WOW... It looked like fun...

I've been holding off building anything 'involved' including the blu baby just b/c of a lack of time... It is near the top of my list though... This Piper is now right below the BB.

-ms
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Old Sep 26, 2007, 10:06 PM
I'm not flying backwards!
Tony65x55's Avatar
Oshawa, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith
Tony - I've always loved the ag's... Airtruk, AgWagon, etc...

I think it's because some of the first planes that I saw 'flying' up close were Ags along side of I-10 flying over crops... Those guys are absolutely bat guano crazy, but WOW... It looked like fun...

I've been holding off building anything 'involved' including the blu baby just b/c of a lack of time... It is near the top of my list though... This Piper is now right below the BB.

-ms
Mike, a guy like you can bang out a BB in a day, no sweat. Not much different for the Pawnee either. It's basically the same construction. It's worth the time investment because they're so though, they last a long time.

Bob, that plane of your is overdue and we're all waiting on the maiden..Focus Man, Focus!

Tony
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Old Sep 26, 2007, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
Mike, a guy like you can bang out a BB in a day, no sweat. Not much different for the Pawnee either. It's basically the same construction. It's worth the time investment because they're so though, they last a long time.

Bob, that plane of your is overdue and we're all waiting on the maiden..Focus Man, Focus!

Tony
I could blame it on you and the three BB's, but truth is, the next time I decide to build a scale-like fabric covered foamie biplane with 90 wing ribs, send the guys in the white suits for me and things will go faster.. Bob
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:47 AM
I'm not flying backwards!
Tony65x55's Avatar
Oshawa, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
3,753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamenator
I could blame it on you and the three BB's, but truth is, the next time I decide to build a scale-like fabric covered foamie biplane with 90 wing ribs, send the guys in the white suits for me and things will go faster.. Bob
Ahhhh, the KFm.... Bob, this wing is complicated too you know. It has ten parts, but only if you count the two spar doublers.

Tony
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 08:08 AM
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dillon, mt
Joined Jun 2007
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tony, i'm going to like building and flying this ag wagon. every spring and summer they fly right over my house to spray the alfalfa field just below my property so i've seen them up close and personal. i was even sprayed for grasshoppers [grasshopper free for 2003]. i really liked the wagon with the radial engine, talk about a tough sounding plane. thanks tony this is going to be fun. nick
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 08:13 AM
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Thanks Tony, MY pleasure!

… part of my reply when Tony ask if I was “serious” about his beta build …
YES I am serous! We live (since 1973) on the Delmarva (DE MD VA) Peninsula, eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay. The ‘Ag wagons’ get quite a work out here. Ag-bipes too. In fact, been thinking about (similar) PA-25 for some time…
‘verbatim’ I assume full fuselage, this will be my first (full foam fuse) and will do my best.

My beta build:

Outstanding set of plans, clean and tidy detail, no ambiguity tiling.

Since all printers are not created equal (mine)
extra attention is always required (on my part) scaling.

I am well into the build and thrilled!

Will get a few pics up soon...

Thanks again Tony
Gramps


Having no ‘monobloc’ on hand,
I cut two monoblock patterns and will use as fuselage ‘doublers’.

My plywood wing brace is different than Tony’s.
This allows me more area to drill holes for a removable wing here.


28 sep 1230

Tony,
Absolutely another winner.
Your stuff does ‘real-good.

Maiden was yesterday (27th) and successful.
Probably too windy for a new build but I knew she could do it!

First flight, BP-21 on a 3c/800, swinging an APC 8/6 knockoff
Way too much prop and lipo.
Second flight, 2c/450 and APC knockoff 8/4.
Still too much prop.
Got in several flights including an inside loop (caught on vid).

She flew very well, well until I lost the yaw axes. Aileron alone was not enough in this wind. Amazing to see what happens when a light model flies through the lee of a tree, sucked in like a magnet. I’ll try to get the vids up (a new experience for me).

Damage assessment, wobbly fin at rear deck surface.
Fix, hot glue plus ‘scale’ diamond brace (I used 50 lb mono but sure 8 oz will do).

Second day
Less wind
Drained first 2c/450 on a gray GWS 8/4, much better match for this combo.
Several flights on second lipo and packed in early due to high wind.

While packing up I met (first time) neighbors Maree and John. After a trivial arm twist they graciously volunteer camera skill. On a weak second lipo and high wind, we managed to get close up video. Maree and John THANKS again and bring Blue next time. :>) Blue (a WWII pilot, our neighbor and modeler) you ‘gotta’ see this foam stuff fly, it is a blast!!! I’ve got a buddy box.



Tony,

I am sure your monobloc construction technique is more sturdy and quicker to build, I just did not have any on hand.

Most know, the full-scale version is a versatile workhorse.
Not only lifting heavy loads it flies low air show maneuvers with a heavy load.
It also provides banner and glider tug service.

I speculate your Pawnee may well serve as an ample AP platform.

Boldly go with two 8g, HS55 wing servos and channel 1-6 flap mix, mine are 6g, a tad light for strip ailerons this long. My tail servos are HS55.
Gallantly install wing struts and diamond brace.

She weighed in (pictured today) 12.0oz, BP-21 on modified mount (monobloc would make life a lot easier here), gray GWS 8/4, GWS 15A ESC, 100% hot glue, spar is half carbon / half bamboo, no batt, no canapé, no LG.

The BP-21 is more than adequate for scale flying.

A most delightful beta experience!

Now to clean her up,
a little paint and canape she will lQQk just like picture in post 1.

Gramps

29sep
Beta video
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...93#post8264024

2oct
Pawnee rudder turns

Tony nailed it, no problem as designed.

Of course she has a throttle sweet spot for the prettiest turn and like most models drop the nose on a rudder turn (think maybe fin/rudder hinge rake angle deals with this but not adjustable at this point).

Talking slow easy stick motion, not hot dog stuff; rudder turns were fashioned at various speeds and the best lQQking came with light up elevator pressure prior to rudder pressure and of course the tighter the turn the more up pressure. Self-righting was less obvious than expected for a model with this much dihedral. Balance today was 30%, to include aileron.

Tid-bit… I hesitated installing UH HXT500 6g wing servos thinking maybe too light. Second warning came with power off, sometimes servomotor would spin when model lifted at wing tip for balance check. Confirmed today pulling out of a dive, wind pressure and/or wing flex distorts hinge line enough to stall motor. To compound situation, I put long control horn on servo and short horn on control surface, a mechanical disadvantage with respect to motor. I will swap horns first (servos last) and see what happens.
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Last edited by Gramps:>); Oct 02, 2007 at 07:42 PM.
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 09:55 AM
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Joined Sep 2006
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That's awesome, I logged onto E-Flite's website yesterday and they just came out with an ARF that caught my eye. No I wasn't going to buy it, it just caught my eye!

Ag planes are really cool, I used to spend hours watching a guy that had an AgCat spraying my uncle's potatoe and corn crops. Hey, you don't think that spending hours outside while someone is spraying crops is a bad thijng for a kid do you?

I'm in Mississippi until Sunday and I have three other builds going on right now but I think i'll start cutting this one when I get back! Thanks for the plans. Any chance of posting a full sized parts page instead of the tiled ones?

TIA,
Odie
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 10:05 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Ton' , Nice job !!!
MS, I keep seein' it as a profile ...no offense...would be easy and light ?????
Probably want to swing a large prop with lots of thrust on this one ....then you could easily do those wild and crazy dusting maneuvers...You fellas' aren't gonna' be on about adding real dust eh???
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 10:17 AM
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Joined Sep 2004
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Hey Tony, thanks for the plans, simple and straight forward, just like the BB. I have all the parts cut out, easy peasy and my new BP21 arrived yesterday. I better get my empanage in gear, before there is a whole squadron in the air before the beta build is Unfortunatly I'll be out of glue gun range for the weekend
Pics to come next week,
Andy
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 04:00 PM
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FirstShirt's Avatar
Collierville, TN
Joined Apr 2005
1,497 Posts
Tony! Awesome! Been looking forward to this one! Now I can finally get rid of that crabgrass in my front yard!

Guys, Tony's planes are terrific. They build quickly and are incredibly durable. The monobloc is a wonderful innovation that make his designs handle those unexpected one point landings. (Don't ask me how I know.) It also provides a solid place to mount the motor, protects the battery and makes it easier to get the fuse parts lined up during construction.

I know many of us love the profiles--me too, but these full fuse monobloc planes don't involve much more effort. I've built 5-6 of his planes and given away three BB trainers that are all still flying. (EPP fuses)

Gramps and Miniman, thanks for working on the beta builds. Looking forward to your reports!

Pat
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 07:06 PM
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Last edited by Gramps:>); Oct 03, 2007 at 12:49 PM.
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