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Old Sep 24, 2007, 03:32 PM
New Guy
Simpsonville, SC
Joined Sep 2007
59 Posts
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Dumas Fokker Eindecker E 111

Hello,
Looking for the plans that came with the Dumas Fokker Eindecker E 111, mine got lost in the last move. I couldn't find it I went to start on it. Any help would be very nice.
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Last edited by donfl3344; Sep 24, 2007 at 03:46 PM.
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Old Sep 24, 2007, 04:26 PM
KSU Flyer's Avatar
Manhattan, Kansas, United States
Joined Oct 2001
3,503 Posts
Call Dumas and order some plans.
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 04:55 PM
New Guy
Simpsonville, SC
Joined Sep 2007
59 Posts
The Dumas people want right at $14.00 for the plans, shipped. I live on social security and I just can't bring myself to pay that for plans for a $20.00 kit. I was hoping someone had a set of plans left over from a build that I could get cheap..... maybe not!
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 08:35 PM
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Bill Covert's Avatar
Grove City, PA
Joined Sep 2007
955 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by donfl3344
The Dumas people want right at $14.00 for the plans, shipped. I live on social security and I just can't bring myself to pay that for plans for a $20.00 kit. I was hoping someone had a set of plans left over from a build that I could get cheap..... maybe not!
The fact that you need the plans for these builds is why I won't buy any more of these small Dumas planes. I thought about buying this plane for a micro conversion. Why bother though, when 90% of the construction is spar-on-plan construction, and you pay all that money for a few wing formers? Yeah, $14 for the plan is ridiculous.

Still a few larger Dumas builds I'd like to convert:
P38
Spruce Goose
310B
and a few others I can't remember offhand.
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Old Oct 01, 2007, 03:15 AM
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Greg Knipp's Avatar
Manitowoc, Wisconsin
Joined Dec 2003
1,285 Posts
This is exactly why I hope Dumas looses business and has to shut down. I had bought the same EIII kit and found the laser cut parts were damaged. They looked as though they had been crushed. I had called them on the problem and wanted an unrealistic price for the 2 sheets of wood and would not replace them. Long story short, I told them what I thought and threw the whole kit in the garbage. Their customer service has went downhill big time and all they are interested in is lining their pockets and to heck with the hobby. Might I add their downgrade in boat models also. Cheap plastic hulls but the price didn't decrease. HMMMMMMMMM???????
Yes I can speak from personal experience here. BAD!!!!
FWIW, I was at the Toledo show this past year and bought a beautiful EIII kit from an English Company called Aero Graphics. I must say it puts the Dumas kit to shame and the quality is top notch.
I am sorry I can't help you out.
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Old Oct 03, 2007, 02:20 AM
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Bill Covert's Avatar
Grove City, PA
Joined Sep 2007
955 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Knipp
This is exactly why I hope Dumas looses business and has to shut down. I had bought the same EIII kit and found the laser cut parts were damaged. They looked as though they had been crushed. I had called them on the problem and wanted an unrealistic price for the 2 sheets of wood and would not replace them. Long story short, I told them what I thought and threw the whole kit in the garbage. Their customer service has went downhill big time and all they are interested in is lining their pockets and to heck with the hobby. Might I add their downgrade in boat models also. Cheap plastic hulls but the price didn't decrease. HMMMMMMMMM???????
Yes I can speak from personal experience here. BAD!!!!
FWIW, I was at the Toledo show this past year and bought a beautiful EIII kit from an English Company called Aero Graphics. I must say it puts the Dumas kit to shame and the quality is top notch.
I am sorry I can't help you out.
The bottom line of the pricing seems to say this:
We don't want to deal with sending out replacement plans and parts to our customers at all, so well just price them out of the world. A common practice.
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Old Oct 03, 2007, 06:28 AM
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SKY KING's Avatar
Isle of Rhode, US
Joined Sep 2004
1,041 Posts
$14 seems like a lot (especially for folded plans) - but it costs me on average about $7 to copy most of my plans.

Factor in the shipping and time and it's just about right. I have that plane with plans unopened and I was going to offer to copy and ship them - but it would have been virtually the same, give or take a couple of dollars if I was looking to break even. If you include the instructions that have a map of the laser cut parts there are three sheets.

I'm speculating here, but I think there is a reason Dumas is one of the last standing kit-makers out there. I'm betting they nitpick as much as any respectable long-standing company - they have to.

You would think someone out there has the plans left over though. Good luck.
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Old Oct 03, 2007, 09:02 AM
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Albuquerque, NM USA
Joined Sep 2003
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Having to go through pricing of stuff and customer complaints as well, I don't find much of a problem with Dumas' policies. They have a payroll to pay, and, they are a very small company. I'd say less than 20 folks. They don't have a large margin like EFlite or SIG and cut costs wherever possible to keep prices down. They evaluate where they can save pennies on a kit without sacrificing the building and flying quality of the kit.

I started out trying to explain all the problems of running a business like this, but, it was too long. I'll just say that from my experiences their quality, prices, and policies are just fine. If I didn't have my own products to build, I'd have each one of their electric kits and several of their 30" kits either on my shelf or flying.

charlie
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Old Oct 03, 2007, 09:20 AM
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Greg Knipp's Avatar
Manitowoc, Wisconsin
Joined Dec 2003
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I don't mean to sound silly, but, how do you ship them???? Heck, as long as they are folded anyway, you could fold over the edge and stick them in a business envelope and send them out for $.41. Approx. $2.50 per sheet to have them copied at my print shop, heck, $5.00 would be highway robbery here!!! I guess the whole issue is when a long standing company as Dumas starts taking advantage of people and disregards customer service, it will only be a matter of time before another company will fall by the wayside.
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Old Oct 03, 2007, 11:41 AM
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portablevcb's Avatar
Albuquerque, NM USA
Joined Sep 2003
15,618 Posts
If the value of the plans was simply the printing and shipping you'd be correct. But, obviously, plans are worth more than the printing and shipping cost. Same with the cut parts. There is more to the cost of a kit than the cutting and packaging.

We have to deal with this frequently. I agree with Dumas' policies. In fact, given the thread starting issue I would have the same policy as Dumas and sell the plans at full value.

Why is Dumas taking advantage of people and disregarding customer service? They have a product and they sell it. If your kit was defective then send the box back and ask for a new one or a refund. When you ask a company for free or discounted replacement parts it raises a 'red flag'. We have had more stories than I can count about why we should send out free or discounted replacement parts. Some true, some not. FYI, it is simpler (cheaper) for us to ship a complete replacement kit than to send replacement parts in many cases.

FYI, one of the most common 'issues' in the kit industry is the person who buys a kit from a yard sale (or ebay), doesn't get a part, then wants a free replacement from the mfg. You may think this 'legit' as the company already made their money on the kit. I consider it a lost sale for a new (and complete) kit.

I am sorry if you consider Dumas' pricing too high. I actually think it is a bit low for what you get.

charlie
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Old Oct 03, 2007, 03:27 PM
Garry Owen!
Florida
Joined Oct 2004
341 Posts
Don't worry donfl3344, somebody out here will see this thread and send you a copy (probably for free). Modelers stick together most of the time. Adrian Page once sent me a new copy of his GB manual at a cost of $6.00 to him. He would not take my money...and I didn't even buy the kit from him! He didn't care, because he knew I'd be back for more kits. That $6.00 he spent on me gave him a lot of great advertising every chance I got...especially on the internet! Oops, there I go again singing Adrian's praises.

Yak
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Old Oct 03, 2007, 04:03 PM
Designing on the edge
Bengtson's Avatar
United States, OR, Portland
Joined Mar 2001
1,518 Posts
I throw my 2 cnts in for what it is worth. I treat the customer as a potential repeat customer. Modelers need a steady stream of models and they are very good repeat customers. If I lose money on a part here or there or whatever, I have invariably found that the goodwill generated has been more than the loss. It may only be a few dollars or an hour or two labor but more often than not, the customer rewards this with repeat business.
However, I sell to a niche in a niche market so what I found works for AerodromeRC, probably wouldn't for a larger company like Dumas.

--Kurt
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Old Oct 03, 2007, 05:26 PM
Garry Owen!
Florida
Joined Oct 2004
341 Posts
I love the internet! Dumas has already received $14.00 worth of bad press!

Yak
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Old Oct 03, 2007, 08:59 PM
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P. Tritle's Avatar
Albuquerque NM
Joined Oct 2003
8,475 Posts
I hope Dumas looses business and has to shut down.

I love the internet! Dumas has already received $14.00 worth of bad press!

In todays world of shake and bake modeling and the general desire for instant gratification, and the influx of cheap Chineese ARF's, it's likely that not only Dumas, but everyone else in the kit making business will eventually go by the wayside. And when that happens we can e-mail One Hung Low and tell him about our problems with their ARF's. I'll betcha the outcome won't be much different there either. Shoot, just once I'd like to recover ALL the costs involved in producing and selling a new design. The bottom line is, be careful what you wish for -- all to often you get it!

PAT
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Old Oct 04, 2007, 12:20 PM
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Gonzo007's Avatar
Surrey BC, Canada
Joined Sep 2002
876 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yak18
I love the internet! Dumas has already received $14.00 worth of bad press!

Yak

What a stupid comment. You have for sure never built a Dumas kit and have know idea of the quality of products they produce. I don't see this thread at all as bad press. This whole thread is stupid. We are talking about a guy that lost his plans and thinks Dumas has done him wrong by not providing him with another set for free because he is stupid.

Pat, Charlie. We need more people like you two in this hobby. Please remember this guy is a moron and don't stop designing and making great products for people like me that love to build a kit and understand that there is costs to designing a producing that kit.

I see high value in all the products that Dumas makes. Plus I see 14 dollars as cheap way of getting another set of plans.


Colin
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