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Old Apr 14, 2008, 08:34 PM
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its funny that folks cant get what people say right but hoo cares why do we have to fight about it lets share info and have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Apr 14, 2008, 09:17 PM
Boycot Crappy CC Controllers
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United States, MI, Port Huron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 mag
its funny that folks cant get what people say right but hoo cares why do we have to fight about it lets share info and have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree completely. Feel free to state your opinion, please dont critisize others that state theres. We dont care, most of us realize they are only opinions, If u must be persistant please take it up in PM form, we are not here to observe the off topic bickering sorta speak.
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Old Apr 14, 2008, 09:22 PM
AMA 504253 Born in the USA
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I agree with 44 mag.
But I also have a good feeling Cart T did not just sit around and thinking Humm let me make up a bunch of BS. Why? What for? Nothing to gain by doing it.
It is very possible he did get the info from HL. There are a lot of people working there ya know. Could have been chit chat around the water cooler and then the next thing you know the story changes from person to person. By the time it got to Carl it may have been just what he said. So stop throwing the BS and blaming people before you have all the facts. He gave me good info. Thanks Carl T.
Now lets talk about flying. And if your batteries work in the back fine. Mine work only in the front and the plane climbs real nice.
Yellowspider
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 02:55 AM
Thatsright I drankthe rum
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USA, MN, Robbinsdale
Joined May 2006
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"point of origin"

I would like to suggest finding a way to determine CG....
My suggestion is to measure from front of tail rudder....
or the front seam of the glue joint for rudder...
thus no crash, mods, or much short of redesign will change its
location...thus CG can be measured to that point and we can all
compare apples to apples so to speak...
as I am afraid mine is F***ed up...and Id like an answer that I feel is
not prone to some oddity of another plane....
thank you...also now we/I need to know if the ailerons are up,
down or flush to wing...Im hopeful flush works if CG is at somepoint
that is not tail heavy...

I hope we can agree on some "point of origin"
for CG measure.....please
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K9000wner
I would like to suggest finding a way to determine CG....
My suggestion is to measure from front of tail rudder....
or the front seam of the glue joint for rudder...
thus no crash, mods, or much short of redesign will change its
location...thus CG can be measured to that point and we can all
compare apples to apples so to speak...
as I am afraid mine is F***ed up...and Id like an answer that I feel is
not prone to some oddity of another plane....
thank you...also now we/I need to know if the ailerons are up,
down or flush to wing...Im hopeful flush works if CG is at somepoint
that is not tail heavy...

I hope we can agree on some "point of origin"
for CG measure.....please
Crazy hard to answer. The 'booklet' says the length of the plane 'from nose tip to exhaust line' is 950mm and the (factory suggested CG) is derived from that assumption.

My blue is physically measured from tip to exhaust line at 940mm

My pink is physically measured at 930mm

Using the same tape measure...

Are these things shrinking or is it just me? (This can and does happen with molded replications.)

Regardless of the cause, it makes the given CG info nearly useless, and at least inaccurate.

I "guesstimated, derived, averaged" the CG for pinky from the factual length, and the implied CG given in the manual. Thought it well, then went to fly it, and really suspect I was way off, as a result.

At this point I feel finding the CG is a case by case situation. And no thing but trial and error will make it work for each plane.
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 06:35 AM
Checking CG is for NERDS!
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Joined Jun 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanks
My blue is physically measured from tip to exhaust line at 940mm

My pink is physically measured at 930mm

Using the same tape measure...
What the?

Were both of your F-18s "Star Max" versions? I wonder if they changed the mould along with the batteries, connectors, etc.

Aside from the color and the missing centimeter, can you spot any other physical differences? Are the mould markings the same?
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 07:56 AM
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Nashville Metro, Tennesse, United States
Joined Aug 2001
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My Two Cents

Having worked at HL in product development I can say with total honesty that HL tests all of it's products "as is" with no upgrades, changes, improvements or smoke and mirrors. They do this to insure you, the customers get what you pay for. After testing with the all stock products they do often switch to Spektrum systems just so that they do not have to carry around twenty different transmitters when they go to the flying field for additional testing or pleasure flying. The FA-18 is produced by Starmax, and NOT Art-Tech! As of the last day I worked at HL there were no plans to drop the FA-18, there were going to be changes in the color scheme and they were going to add water slide decals to the Blue Angel version. During the testing of the first samples it was noted that a more powerful battery was needed. They increased the C rating from 15 to 18 in order to provide better power. I tested the second sample completely stock using the included Starmax radio, receiver, servos, battery and motor/fan. My only suggestion was to change the battery connectors to Deans Ultra and beef up the nose cone which was and is quite fragile.
The flight videos you see on the net produced by HL are completely stock with the exception of using a Spektrum receiver. No modifications are made, and what you see is what you get. I say this will total and complete honesty, I would not tolerate any sort of shady business dealings and I do not believe that anyone in the decision making positions would either. As I said, I no longer am employed at Hobby Lobby, so I can not speak for anything that has happened since my departure after January 2008. During my 6 months at Hobby Lobby I found them to be a very honest, company that stands behind their products 100%. After all, any company that is not totally above board won't stay in business long these days with the Internet and all of it's forums and Blogs letting folks know about customer service and honesty.


Gary
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 09:18 AM
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Tucson, AZ
Joined Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanks

My blue is physically measured from tip to exhaust line at 940mm

My pink is physically measured at 930mm
My Blue one is also 940mm and I'm wondering if in an effort to strengthen the nose cone they decreased it's length? Mine is 105mm, can someone with a 950mm plane measure their nose cone and test this theory? If this is the case, I would then surmise that the CG might be 570mm back from the tip of the nose.
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokescreen38
What the?

Were both of your F-18s "Star Max" versions? I wonder if they changed the mould along with the batteries, connectors, etc.

Aside from the color and the missing centimeter, can you spot any other physical differences? Are the mould markings the same?
They are both StarMax for Hobby Lobby international. However, the box on the bule one has the catalog number as 'RCC009A' (RCC = Riccs?) but on the StarMax site the current catalog ID is 'ST-D01A' The pink one is marked 'STO18A' the site says 'ST-D01C'

Also, the blue one's box art is, how would I explain, much different than the pink one's. It's really boring. Doesn't say "I look great! Buy me I'm fun!" like the newer one. Seems more to say "There is an EDF Jet inside this box. It looks like this photo. It's mostly blue. EOS"

Otherwise, beyond the difference in length. The pink one arrived in notably better conditon, having fewer irregularities in the foam. The only other difference in marks is on the left wing edge, on both planes, toward the TE. There is a 'groove like' deformation which is somewhat more pronounced on the pink one.

That groove seems to be a mould related feature, so I'm guessing they're still using the same mould(s)

It maybe that there was more preassure, or less blowing agent, or something. When pinky got foamed. It seems generally 'tighter' than the blue one did.

The blue's wing leads were very fragile toward the edges. The pink one isn't nearly as fragile there, and it hasn't been painted or reinforced in anyway.

So, blah blah. Iregularities happen. But what's the magic universal CG!?

It's believed to be right in the middle of the portion of your main fuselage that may be comprised of an unknown material we can refer to as 'Dark Matter'

It's invisible to the naked eye.

Good luck.

Pinkster went up (too up) the first time at 570mm from the nose and 360mm from the exhaust line. With the battery in the rear bay. This is not a recommendation. But seemed to be equivalent to what the book suggested, adjusted to a length of 930mm.
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 03:15 PM
Thatsright I drankthe rum
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USA, MN, Robbinsdale
Joined May 2006
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point for CG from REF.

Originally Posted by ibanks
My blue is physically measured from tip to exhaust line at 940mm
My pink is physically measured at 930mm

[QUOTE=TabAir]My Blue one is also 940mm and I'm wondering if in an effort to strengthen
the nose cone they decreased it's length? Mine is 105mm, ...

My Pink is 933(930close) my nose is unreliable...
from tail cone to a point 370 mm (make mark) this is also ...
168mm from trailing edge of wing at fuselage AND
115mm from closest rudder joint line.

My point is I really am out of sorts at the thought of my Maiden
and Id really like to have a good idea where to put the CG ...
I will likely go slightly forward of that but Im not a great pilot
so Id like to be darn close to a good spot for CG.
and wing setup ..and whatever else I can do to make it as
easy as is possible...so I really like to see where you guys have that CG
In reference to a point that is unlikely to be different, in different planes.
Thanks

Note attchment

Thanks to Carlt as base dwg
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 04:22 PM
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[QUOTE=K9000wner]Originally Posted by ibanks
My blue is physically measured from tip to exhaust line at 940mm
My pink is physically measured at 930mm

Quote:
Originally Posted by TabAir
My Blue one is also 940mm and I'm wondering if in an effort to strengthen
the nose cone they decreased it's length? Mine is 105mm, ...

My Pink is 933(930close) my nose is unreliable...
from tail cone to a point 370 mm (make mark) this is also ...
168mm from trailing edge of wing at fuselage AND
115mm from closest rudder joint line.

My point is I really am out of sorts at the thought of my Maiden
and Id really like to have a good idea where to put the CG ...
I will likely go slightly forward of that but Im not a great pilot
so Id like to be darn close to a good spot for CG.
and wing setup ..and whatever else I can do to make it as
easy as is possible...so I really like to see where you guys have that CG
In reference to a point that is unlikely to be different, in different planes.
Thanks

Note attchment

Thanks to Carlt as base dwg
LOL! Okay, well then this should help.

On my Pink, using the same measurements you describe. 'Marking 370mm from the exhaust'

From the rudder joint = 125mm
from the TE of the wing on the fuse = 172mm

On the blue I get;

From rudder joint = 115mm
From TE of wing on fuse = 175mm
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 04:35 PM
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Hmm...

Art-tech develops the planes, star-max develops the planes, HL just distributes them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Morris
Having worked at HL in product development I can say with total honesty that HL tests all of it's products "as is" with no upgrades, changes, improvements or smoke and mirrors.
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 05:21 PM
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I think I found a measurement reference point that is consistent. At least both are identical on my twins.

From the exhaust cone to the flat part of the cheater M's is 400mm on both planes.

Maybe subtract 3cm from there?

This also happens to align with the aileron linkage holes in the intakes.

But then this means I was a full centimeter back of that on my first flight, which would mean I was nose heavy with the battery in the back compartment. So maybe the jump up into a stall was due to over elevator trying to get it off the ground.

Now I'm absolutely certain. I'm confused.

Trial and error wins again.

[Edit] Unconfused now. It was tail heavy. [/Edit]
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Last edited by ibanks; Apr 15, 2008 at 09:26 PM.
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 05:33 PM
Doing it in the Lateral Axis
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Got mine today..aithough I'm kinda busy with a OS upgrade on my computer so it will be a while before I can check it out.
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modfly
Got mine today..aithough I'm kinda busy with a OS upgrade on my computer so it will be a while before I can check it out.
Awesome! Now you'll have at least plausible cause to contribute.
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