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Old Oct 13, 2007, 01:26 PM
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monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
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get yourself some silicone for balancing the rotor, it helps weight wise but also, its really nice at dampening those last little harmonics. thats what sime of the aftermarket harmonic balancers for high perfomrance engines use, it has some mass for balance but absorbs, but doenst transfer harmonics as fast as solid objects do. And its much more managable than glues an tapes cuase you put some on and just spin on the balancer right away and if you put to much on it comes right off easy while wet, but wont slide off when wet. And I like that ESc alone for precise adjustability, the kontronik is a lot lighter, and the fan is very useful, but I still use the jeti/hacker to dial point by point timing to see what the motor likes. Then once I know where its at I like the Kontronik. And no clue who has it your end but I got the kontronik programmer box here at esprit-model. there cheap too , think it was under 30 bucks.

Barry
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 04:34 AM
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San Diego, Ca
Joined Feb 2005
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Wow,

All this talk of timing, switch, etc. Is there a book I can go buy? I bought the E-Turbax setup (with the Phoenix 110 and the Neu 1521) and plugged everything in and gave it a test-whirl with some old NMiH packs I borrowed while waiting for my ThunderPower 5000s. I was a bit worried because of m98's impressions, but my fan parts fit without any slop and the fan spun up nicely. I don't know how much vibration is normal since this is my first EDF. There didn't seem to be any at all until about 3/4 throttle. I couldn't find my tach, so I'll have to grab another one tomorrow. I'm using the Castle 110.

One issue I hadn't thought about with the Turbax setup is that only the front face of the fan shroud is the same diameter as the Dynamax the ducting was designed around. The rear of the fan is smaller in diameter and the shroud is 11/16" shorter than the dynamax. I'm going to do a relatively simple fix for both problems at the same time with an adapter shroud I'm building. I am electing to lengthen the fan shroud because the ducting is molded with the dimples in place for clearance of the main wheels. That spacing is very particular, so...

Anyway, any help on the timing thing would be of help. I'm a total E-newbie!
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 04:39 AM
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monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
11,778 Posts
ideally there shouldn't be any vibration. even in a perfect world ducted fans arer very hard on bearings, gas or E, so you want it as smooth as you can get it. And for timing I still start on lowest settings to get it to run smooth, then I bump it up from there.


Barry
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 06:08 AM
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Perth, Western Australia
Joined Jun 2006
274 Posts
Please find the video of the AP1200, 1527/1.5Y on 12S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coDQMjEvWB8

still more balancing of the fan....got to get it perfect...
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 06:28 AM
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monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
11,778 Posts
cool vid! haha lotta amps rthere though! and thats not even installed! and see that voltage depression! almost 9 1/2 volts! i'd say drop timing a bit and power probably wont go down that much but volts will go up. I knew it was gonna be high cause that fan kicked on with the ESC. With our stuff the fan never come son in flight, it only kicks on sometimes about 25 seconds after landing when it heat soaks a bit, and even then it goes right back off in less than 30 seconds. i'd say drop timing to bottom then middle then see what looks better. And maybe spool it up faster cause the hardest thing and ESc does os par throttle, think of it more as a dam than a disperser of power, so under anything but full throttle its working its hardest.


Barry
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 07:06 AM
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Perth, Western Australia
Joined Jun 2006
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Hi Barry

I've swapped the ESC to the Hacker Master Spin 170 and made timing 0 deg and increased Freq to 32 kHz. Will post a video soon of the results.

I hope to get the Kontronik Prog Card this week and will do the test with that ESC again. In the end I think i will stick with the Hacker ESC because the Kontronik is not mine but also the Hacker didn't seem to get very warm at all. Like you said with the right timing the Kontronik fan may not kick in so early.

The weight of the Hacker ESC is 336g versus 220g of the Kontronik but the massive heatsinks on both sides of the Hacker and the additional 50Amp rating gives me additional reassurance.

With 4200+ watts i'm expecting thrust to be around 7kgs?. I am just as keen to see what this will be installed. I'm thinking to install the fan with the inlet lip and therefore not a continous duct and seeing how this goes. Whats your thoughts Barry ?

12S is certainly very hot. I'm also still thinking of trying 10S since that appears to be the typical setup - but gotta try something different right?.
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 08:45 AM
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Perth, Western Australia
Joined Jun 2006
274 Posts
Hacker Spin 170 - Anti Spark

Has anyone used the anti spark cable on the Jeti Spin ESCs?

I'm trying to figure out how to use it. The procedure seems to be a 3 step connection

1. Connect negative wires of ESC to negative side of flight battery
2. Connect anti spark wire to postive side of flight battery
3. Connect positive wires of ESC to positive side of flight battery

My question is

1. how is all this possible when using deans
2. how to you do step 2 with deans or bullets - does it require a 3rd bullet on the positive side of the flight battery ?
3. Could I just connect the anti spark wire to the +ve side of the RX battery?

The instructions that I got did not mention it nor showed how to make the correct connections.
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 10:52 AM
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San Diego, Ca
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Michael,

I realize you asked that question specifically to Barry, but do you mean you're thinking of not having the duct go all the way to the fan?
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 10:53 AM
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San Diego, Ca
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Barry,

How does one adjust timing on a Neu motor?
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 11:55 AM
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demetrius's Avatar
Van Nuys
Joined Mar 2004
1,048 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowAircraft
Barry,

How does one adjust timing on a Neu motor?
It's adjust thru the speed controller! The manufactures instructions tell you how to adjust it.
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 12:01 PM
EDF all the way!
bruff's Avatar
Gilbert, Az
Joined Jun 1999
7,933 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by m898
Has anyone used the anti spark cable on the Jeti Spin ESCs?

I'm trying to figure out how to use it. The procedure seems to be a 3 step connection

1. Connect negative wires of ESC to negative side of flight battery
2. Connect anti spark wire to postive side of flight battery
3. Connect positive wires of ESC to positive side of flight battery

My question is

1. how is all this possible when using deans
2. how to you do step 2 with deans or bullets - does it require a 3rd bullet on the positive side of the flight battery ?
3. Could I just connect the anti spark wire to the +ve side of the RX battery?

The instructions that I got did not mention it nor showed how to make the correct connections.
I would not use Deans, go with 6 mm bullet connectors. They handle the AMPs better than the Deans.
Bob
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Old Oct 14, 2007, 08:39 PM
smug in granny panties
monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
11,778 Posts
bruff is right use deans on anythiung over 70 amps really, and yeah i use anti spark on jeti. plug in all cells so you got 1 pos 1 neg from all packs. plug in neg, then take the red wire and touch it first to red wire on cells, then without taking it off plug in pos from esc to cells. And I would find a way to use the ducting, will work a million times better than no ducting. And yeah its fun to mess around, now you tried it you know what it does. you can now mess with same drop timing or different outlet what ever, even drop some cells. The trick is not max watts but what your taking for those max watts. lets say full up is 4200 on 12s, well maybe raised timing on 11 gets you 3700, but not only with 1 less cell but maybe even lot less amps, now with that you fly a lot longer, and your not risking puffed cells everytime you fly. Or it might not get what you want cause higher setup now flies on less than half throttle. just gotta mess around and try not to break anything. thats why I always start small then go up. least I get some fun out of it before I break it! lol and yeah shaun timing is done on the ESC, each one times different though in the sense that medium on a hacker lets say, is not the same as medium on castle 110. thats why sometimes setup might actually like another ESC better than another. and jeti are adjustable point by point so you can be where ever you want, but there heavy. Kontronik has 4 timing spots rather than 3 so there pretty good too. for me right now my fave is the kontronik. the jeti is bullet proof, but very heavy. The kontronik, despite its size, is actually only 2 oz or so heavier than a castle and is good to 15s, even is caslte comes out with a bigger HV ESC, its still gonna be at least the weight of a kontronik, so for me the waiting is over for a better ESC. If you have the card for it it has 4 timing spots on it so its pretty flexable. Only draw back is the cost. if your within 12s, and on the cheap, castle for weight and cost is as good as it gets for now.
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Old Oct 15, 2007, 09:46 AM
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Perth, Western Australia
Joined Jun 2006
274 Posts
AP1200 insane !!

Tonight i continued with balancing the fan, this time with the Hacker Spin 170 ESC and got really insane results.

With
1. timing set at 0 deg
2. Feq at 32 kHz
3. 12S batteries

Maximum power recorded = 5336 watts ! @ 133 Amps ! absolutely crazy !!

another full throttle run and power was still around 5200 + watts.

Tomorrow i will run it with 10S because even though 12S has alot of balls I'm thinking its just not practical, however I may change my mind once the planes ready to fly because you just can never have enough power...its addictive.

I'm simply astounded with the test results.

The fan whilst running is very smooth throughout the throttle range but there is this one spot (around 1/2 throttle) where there is a bit of vibration that is annoying me - i want it gone. i could leave the balance as it is because it's very good but something is telling me to keep persisting until i get it liquid smooth at every speed.

unfortunately I dont have thrust figures but at 5000+ watts I'm sure it has to be close to 8kgs or 18lbs ?

The Hacker ESC didnt even feel warm after multiple test runs so I didnt waste my money after all...it may be heavy but i'm going to keep it especially if i do stick with the 12S setup.
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Old Oct 15, 2007, 10:23 AM
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Buckley wa
Joined Mar 2005
986 Posts
Michael

Were you able to shave any weight off the Landing Gear..
Hey but with that much power probably doesn't matter...
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Last edited by mediq; Oct 15, 2007 at 11:20 PM.
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Old Oct 15, 2007, 03:43 PM
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YellowAircraft's Avatar
San Diego, Ca
Joined Feb 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrius
It's adjust thru the speed controller! The manufactures instructions tell you how to adjust it.

Yeah! So if all else fails, read the instructions? LOL, you're right. I was so excited to have this thing in my hand, I tried it plug-n-play. As it turns out, the factory settings on the ESC are what the rest of the powerplant recommends, so it was all good. Now I'm just waiting for the batteries to get here tomorrow.
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